Perry Barr Garage

[MW]

Surely there is an 'issue' with using double door buses in the West Midlands? (Accident?)

I know in the MR Keeley WMPTE book from the late 80's, after the final orders inherited from the old Corparations entered service, all future vehicles were single door, apart from a batch of Nationals in 1976!

If they're restricted to certain running boards on very frequent services or school services, why would there be a problem. In the circumstances we're in, I'm sure the relevant authorities would allow use. In the case of the ramp requiring use, could manual separate ramps not be allowed to allow boarding at the front doors? Alternatively, if a number of ex London vehicles were acquired, they could be spread across high frequency routes such as the 16, 50, 97 etc meaning that the if the first bus is not compliant, the next bus will almost certainly have a manual ramp at the front door. Let's not forget that these are exceptional circumstances. I think COVID 19 regulation would override other regulations in the eyes of local councils/TfWM & the traffic commissioner.

[Tony]

Surely there is an 'issue' with using double door buses in the West Midlands? (Accident?)

I know in the MR Keeley WMPTE book from the late 80's, after the final orders inherited from the old Corparations entered service, all future vehicles were single door, apart from a batch of Nationals in 1976!

There were two door buses running around up until 2 years ago

[don]

Surely there is an 'issue' with using double door buses in the West Midlands? (Accident?)

I know in the MR Keeley WMPTE book from the late 80's, after the final orders inherited from the old Corparations entered service, all future vehicles were single door, apart from a batch of Nationals in 1976!

From 1967-68, many bus operators had two door double deckers - however they were often 33 ft long to compensate for the reduced downstairs seating capacity. The main reason they went back to single door buses in the West Midlands was the requirement (after several accidents including a fatality on the Bristol Road with a 38xx bus) for an interlock which prevented the bus being placed in gear before the centre door had shut. This made bus stop dwell times no better, if not worse for two door buses.

There were other issues with that batch of buses (the bodies on the SOE 33 ft ones suffered from early fatigue) but also partly because of their height - this is rooted in the requirements for the bus grant then available to help operators move to one person buses being very prescriptive - the lower height matched a Bristol VR with ECW body and the upper one allowed for London Transport ideas on headroom within decks - the net result was the batch which ended up on the Bristol Road, which had previously been destined for the 8, Inner Circle, were too tall for safe passage under a couple of bridges (Hockley station and Highgate Road). There was a cascade amongst the KOX, NOV and SOE buses with some of them respectively going to the 8 (Hockley and Liverpool Street), 41,45,47 (Cotteridge) and 20, 61, 62, 63 (Selly Oak).

WMPTE managed to persuade the Ministry to accept an intermediate height, which was used for fiuture double deckers. And in common with almost everywhere else in the country, all future double deckers were single doored.

Notable exceptions are Lothian and London (although except for 58 in 1965/6) LT didn't discover rear engined double deckers until 1971) and used double doors - however many of them remained crew operated. Bristol City services was another example of dual doored buses

You have to remember that prior to 1968, all the nationalised fleets (eventually to become part of NBC) and London Transport (1970/1 in their case) had no one person operable double deckers, whereas fleets like Birmingham had nearly 600.

Dual door double deckers operate well in London, albeit with very limited downstairs seating capacity. They also permit standing - one of the original Union agreements in BCT where agreement was reached to operate 72 seater buses was there would be no standing. However the NOV and SOE double deckers had straps for holding on to so they were presumably allowed by then. There's no reason to suspect dual door buses couldn't operate satisfactorily in the West Midlands these days. In London (and likely in the West Midlands) many passengers use passes or other cashless transactions thus dealing with the dwell time issue.

Presumably a lot of type training would be required, however, especially if such buses were used as fillers within an existing route and timetable.

[the trainbasher]

There were two door buses running around up until 2 years ago

There are buses with dual doors still in the WM area (I'm not sure it the op has the rear doors in use though)

[mikestone]

The big problem would be bus stations - London and Edinburgh don't go in for them.

[BBS]

There are buses with dual doors still in the WM area (I'm not sure it the op has the rear doors in use though)

I think Green bus have a Dual trident can't guarantee but I think they do.Also Dual buses have no point in WM.Many people use buses here and plus capacity.So yet there's no need but in the future who knows?

[don]

The big problem would be bus stations - London and Edinburgh don't go in for them.

There are plenty in London, both centrally and in suburban towns like Croydon. It's true that the queues in bus stations get in the way of disembarking passengers, as it is at busy bus stops. Just one of the disadvantages of dual door buses.

[the trainbasher]

I think Green bus have a Dual trident can't guarantee but I think they do.Also Dual buses have no point in WM.Many people use buses here and plus capacity.So yet there's no need but in the future who knows?

Yeah, and I'm sure the ex London E200s Thandi have are dual door - i know T66NND is

[wmacb13]

7513 on 16's this morning. Back from repair.

[2206]

Red and white Omnilinks on the 66 and 28 today. Been a while since a red and white one was last on there.

[Jack]

Red and white Omnilinks on the 66 and 28 today. Been a while since a red and white one was last on there.

It will be usual. Probably see more Omnilinks on Decker routes at PB too.

[2206]

Probably see more Omnilinks on Decker routes at PB too.

There was a 28 branded one on the X4 to Falcon Lodge. Might be 1864?

[DJ]

There was a 28 branded one on the X4 to Falcon Lodge. Might be 1864?

1869 was on the Suttons yesterday.

[CL]

Funnily enough, 1864 was on the 8C when I saw it last night

[Westy]

Re 4496 on the 'Oddities' thread, why wasn't the advert frames removed, before repainting into Crimson?