West midlands bus franchising

[Coventrybususer95]

40 seems a small number for Coventry to me? Doesn't NXC have a few more than that?
If it is just 40 then just maybe they are looking at what was the new depot built by TDC (now a truck base) just before they stopped running?

The report says Coventry will have a PVR of 164 buses

I believe this will be a new depot for "smaller routes" to be used along side ford street depot that would be for "bigger routes"


Tbf it's all confusing 

[Stu]

It seems TFWM plan to spend £6.5 million pound on building a new Coventry bus depot

Site will be brought in 2025/26 to be open in 2027/28 with a PVR of 40


Going to be interesting to see where it will be

40 seems a small number for Coventry to me? Doesn't NXC have a few more than that?
If it is just 40 then just maybe they are looking at what was the new depot built by TDC (now a truck base) just before they stopped running?

WMCA are planning to break down the region into areas, each of which will have a large 'lot' as well as a small lot.

I would assume that the current NX Coventry garage would be for the 'large lot' in that area, with this new depot being for the 'small lot'.

They expect the big operators to be bidding on the 'large lots', while the 'small lots' are aimed at the smaller independent operators, but no reason why the big groups won't bid on those as well.

[Sandy Lane]

WMCA are planning to break down the region into areas, each of which will have a large 'lot' as well as a small lot.

I would assume that the current NX Coventry garage would be for the 'large lot' in that area, with this new depot being for the 'small lot'.

They expect the big operators to be bidding on the 'large lots', while the 'small lots' are aimed at the smaller independent operators, but no reason why the big groups won't bid on those as well.

Thks Stu.
Would it not be much more cost effective to only have one bigger depot for Coventry buses rather than two depots? If two depots are called for I suppose this would be one of the big extra costs caused by franchising if Coventry does go for two operators?

[B7RLE]

This is true, in Manchester the small depots were all awarded to big operators, which I don't believe was their intended purpose, but the big operators could always undercut bids from independents. From what I've heard, one of them was almost won by Stotts Tours, a local independent, however Rotala came in last second with a better bid (no official source to back that up though).

[Stu]

Reading people's replies there's a lot of recurring themes. Mainly profit and monopoly.
Without profit there will be zero investment.
Franchising won't give you a choice either, you'll have one company and one company only running your route.

Mentions of the outer circle returning to a circle. That'll probably be one of the first routes to be broken up even further. Bringing back the midland red name was another response.

Franchising will almost certainly happen because so many people are giving positive thoughts about it without fully understanding it. Even I have difficulty understanding a lot of the proposal document and I have a greater understanding of local public transport than many.

I agree. Too many people see "profit" as some kind of 'dirty word' now.

If a company does not make profits, it cannot reward its staff with bonuses and pay-rises, and it cannot make any investments to improve its service offerings.

The consultation documents make it clear that the WMCA has already "made its mind up" about franchising, despite all the inherent financial risks involved, risks which will ultimately fall on the general taxpayer.

The consultation is designed so that a majority of people participating will 'support' it. When I last checked there had only been 450+ responses. I doubt whether many respondents had actually gone through all the documents in detail.

Many people are making 'informed decisions' based on bite-sized propaganda pieces being churned out by the local media. "Buses are unsafe", "buses are unreliable", "buses are prohibitively expensive", "cheaper to get a taxi" etc, as you see in comment sections.

I am also concerned by the number of responses - including my own - which are not visible and are 'pending moderation'.

[ellspurs]

I am also concerned by the number of responses - including my own - which are not visible and are 'pending moderation'.

If you weren't 100% positive for the changes then I doubt they'll get moderated until they're able to sanitise them.

[Stu]

If you weren't 100% positive for the changes then I doubt they'll get moderated until they're able to sanitise them.

My comments were mostly supportive though!
https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?msg=338793

And there are a number of 'negative' comments that have been allowed and are visible.


Thankfully I made a record of my own submission into a draft article on my website at the time, which I have now finished off and is visible here:
https://wmbu.org.uk/2025/01/opinion-my-thoughts-on-the-bus-franchising-consultation/

[cardew]

It seems TFWM plan to spend £6.5 million pound on building a new Coventry bus depot

Site will be brought in 2025/26 to be open in 2027/28 with a PVR of 40


Going to be interesting to see where it will be

I read it that the smaller additional Coventry depot would be opened if there was a "Future Partnership" approach (see also the mysterious Pear Tree in Dudley) rather than under the more likely/dead cert "Franchising" approach

I could be wrong, it's a drawback of publishing such a huge and probably expensive document

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

I agree. Too many people see "profit" as some kind of 'dirty word' now.

If a company does not make profits, it cannot reward its staff with bonuses and pay-rises, and it cannot make any investments to improve its service offerings.

The consultation documents make it clear that the WMCA has already "made its mind up" about franchising, despite all the inherent financial risks involved, risks which will ultimately fall on the general taxpayer.

The consultation is designed so that a majority of people participating will 'support' it. When I last checked there had only been 450+ responses. I doubt whether many respondents had actually gone through all the documents in detail.

Many people are making 'informed decisions' based on bite-sized propaganda pieces being churned out by the local media. "Buses are unsafe", "buses are unreliable", "buses are prohibitively expensive", "cheaper to get a taxi" etc, as you see in comment sections.

I am also concerned by the number of responses - including my own - which are not visible and are 'pending moderation'.

It really isn't cheaper to get a Taxi, and the other day for example I had to leave the Footie early waited for my mate to give me something so missed the 37 the next one was in an hour, I walked up to the bus shelter at County Bridge and went to order a cab, the cab was saying 40 minutes away as apparently Wolverhampton Road had been closed due to an accident it had reopened by the time I got home, the bus at this point was 40 minutes away, I had already caught Buses thar say so paid £4.80 a taxi would be £7 from Bentley to Darlaston Asda, the 37 had been delayed eairler but was on time of the evening, this is the problem people think the Taxi is cheaper because what TFWM don't do enough is advertise that a bus caps you at £4.80 and for that you could get 6 buses, on Friday/Saturday Mornings/Nights and Sunday Mornings and at say Bank Holidays/Christmas and New Year or after Gigs I believe what should happen is more Night buses to get people back from Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Coventry to places like Walsall, West Bromwich, Dudley and then say a later busy local route something like a 529 or 79 maybe 6 in Dudley 16/1/X8 in Wolverhampton maybe a 31/32, 10 in Walsall 47,49 in West Bromwich to then get people back to the suburbs of the busy towns so for example at 2AM on a Saturday Morning you could leave Birmingham jump on a 74 to West Bromwich and then either a 79 to Wednesbury, Darlaston, Moxley or Bilston or a 48/49 to Bearwood or you could get of the 51 in Walsall and get a 529 back to Bentley, Willenhall or Portobello or get on the 31 back to Bloxwhich or get the 126 to Dudley and get the 6 or 2 back home or 1 back to Wolverhampton. These and the Current tendered routes should be operated by a Public Owned entity, until NX say actually Mr Parker we reckon these late night buses could support themselves we want to make them commercial know then either Mr Parker could agree or be if they aren't working tender them of to a Diamond or whoever. 

This would help the economy and promote bus travel to be safer, many things would need to happen before it could work ie more Police, Better Lighting at Bus Stations and On Streets, Help Points that lead to Police in emergency or Night time Staff who could request Police assistance, CCTV in Bus Stations or at Interchanges. Sadly this won't happen but yet the mayor still thinks Night time buses would work under Franchising and that with Franchising in general he would fix the problems

[karl724223]

It really isn't cheaper to get a Taxi, and the other day for example I had to leave the Footie early waited for my mate to give me something so missed the 37 the next one was in an hour, I walked up to the bus shelter at County Bridge and went to order a cab, the cab was saying 40 minutes away as apparently Wolverhampton Road had been closed due to an accident it had reopened by the time I got home, the bus at this point was 40 minutes away, I had already caught Buses thar say so paid £4.80 a taxi would be £7 from Bentley to Darlaston Asda, the 37 had been delayed eairler but was on time of the evening, this is the problem people think the Taxi is cheaper because what TFWM don't do enough is advertise that a bus caps you at £4.80 and for that you could get 6 buses, on Friday/Saturday Mornings/Nights and Sunday Mornings and at say Bank Holidays/Christmas and New Year or after Gigs I believe what should happen is more Night buses to get people back from Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Coventry to places like Walsall, West Bromwich, Dudley and then say a later busy local route something like a 529 or 79 maybe 6 in Dudley 16/1/X8 in Wolverhampton maybe a 31/32, 10 in Walsall 47,49 in West Bromwich to then get people back to the suburbs of the busy towns so for example at 2AM on a Saturday Morning you could leave Birmingham jump on a 74 to West Bromwich and then either a 79 to Wednesbury, Darlaston, Moxley or Bilston or a 48/49 to Bearwood or you could get of the 51 in Walsall and get a 529 back to Bentley, Willenhall or Portobello or get on the 31 back to Bloxwhich or get the 126 to Dudley and get the 6 or 2 back home or 1 back to Wolverhampton. These and the Current tendered routes should be operated by a Public Owned entity, until NX say actually Mr Parker we reckon these late night buses could support themselves we want to make them commercial know then either Mr Parker could agree or be if they aren't working tender them of to a Diamond or whoever.

This would help the economy and promote bus travel to be safer, many things would need to happen before it could work ie more Police, Better Lighting at Bus Stations and On Streets, Help Points that lead to Police in emergency or Night time Staff who could request Police assistance, CCTV in Bus Stations or at Interchanges. Sadly this won't happen but yet the mayor still thinks Night time buses would work under Franchising and that with Franchising in general he would fix the problems

What the hell is he on about 

[Jack]

What the hell is he on about

Never has a clue what he is talking about but yet types up essays and spams...

[paulb1973]

The report says Coventry will have a PVR of 164 buses

I believe this will be a new depot for "smaller routes" to be used along side ford street depot that would be for "bigger routes"


Tbf it's all confusing

I suppose Coventry did have 'more than one depot' when Travel De Courcey operated from its base on Rowley Rd/Rowley Drive. I think MRS/Stagecoach had a site in Coventry at one point. I guess NXC's Ford Street garage is handily located, in the city centre and being near Pool Meadow.

[2206]

I believe what should happen is more Night buses to get people back from Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Coventry to places like Walsall, West Bromwich, Dudley and then say a later busy local route something like a 529 or 79 maybe 6 in Dudley 16/1/X8 in Wolverhampton maybe a 31/32, 10 in Walsall 47,49 in West Bromwich to then get people back to the suburbs of the busy towns so for example at 2AM on a Saturday Morning you could leave Birmingham jump on a 74 to West Bromwich and then either a 79 to Wednesbury, Darlaston, Moxley or Bilston or a 48/49 to Bearwood or you could get of the 51 in Walsall and get a 529 back to Bentley, Willenhall or Portobello or get on the 31 back to Bloxwhich or get the 126 to Dudley and get the 6 or 2 back home or 1 back to Wolverhampton.

I very much doubt many people are going to be travelling from Bloxwich, Willenhall, or Pendeford to Birmingham at 2AM in the morning.

A number of services already finish late and start up early 6 days a week. With a slightly later start normally on Sundays.

I was on the 1AM 94 on Sunday morning just gone 4936 and there was only a handful of people on it. So doubt there's demand for a whole network running at that time.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

I very much doubt many people are going to be travelling from Bloxwich, Willenhall, or Pendeford to Birmingham at 2AM in the morning.

A number of services already finish late and start up early 6 days a week. With a slightly later start normally on Sundays.

I was on the 1AM 94 on Sunday morning just gone 4936 and there was only a handful of people on it. So doubt there's demand for a whole network running at that time.

Maybe night outs and From Wolverhampton to Willenhall Maybe, Special Events like Gigs, Comic Con, Football/Rugby Matches, Shows, Thearte, Christmas/New Year. Ik in Darlaston on a Friday Night there are loads of Taxi around all of them that I have seen coming back from my own night out, had at least 1 person in them other than the Driver