West midlands bus franchising

[2206]

Strange that a second BC replacement site isn't in the proposal. Bristol Road, Pershore Road, Harborne and Uni corridors would all require a new base, and a possible replacement for YW would need to be substantial to accommodate current routes plus the BC South West Birmingham routes.

I guess if the BC replacement in East Birmingham & WB replacement in Oldbury are large enough maybe we'll also see routes redistributed e.g 72 out of AG to free up space for other routes?

It appears they are intending to close West Bromwich and replacing it with a new depot in Oldbury?

The other thing if franchising does happen some garages in the Shire counties could possibly lose quite a bit of work. Such as Kidderminster which has some 
work on the 25, 142 in the Dudley area I believe.

[Stu]

The consultation is live. I have had my say - the confirmation email went to my spam folder.

https://www.tfwm.org.uk/consultations/bus-reform/

Thanks, someone else sent me the link earlier today as well.

There's an awful lot to read through before I go on and 'have my say' though.

It would seem that the WMCA has already made its mind up about the franchise option, so I suspect the survey for the public is weighted towards getting them to agree to it.

[Sandy Lane]

R. Parker was interviewed by BBC Midlands Today this evening at Pool Meadow inside a new SC single decker. Shame they did not use one of NXC's EVs as they have the largest fleet in Coventry.

Probably available on BBC IPlayer?

The promised selling feature seems to be better bus services but the case was not really that well presented and convincing to me?

Here is the WMCA accompanying PR brief.
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/mayor-launches-consultation-on-taking-control-of-region-s-bus-services/

[LD713821]

So that's reducing the Frequency, the 50 is the busiest but Route in Europe,
So if they reduce that then what are gonna do with routes in the Black Country

Yes from 16 buses per hour to 9
Every 10(DB) & 6(NX) to Every 6.66

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

Yes from 16 buses per hour to 9
Every 10(DB) & 6(NX) to Every 6.66

So that's half and three quarters of the operators dropped so 5 for maybe Diamond and 4 for NX or 3 for NX and 6 for Diamond

[2206]

So that's half and three quarters of the operators dropped so 5 for maybe Diamond and 4 for NX or 3 for NX and 6 for Diamond

If and once the route is franchised I don't think there will be 2 different operators on there anymore.

[ellspurs]

Yea it'll be ran by GoAhead.

[j789]

This sums up the intellectual capacity of Mr Parker and Co suggesting cuts to high frequency routes would be cost savings. Does he not understand that currently both NX and Diamond operate on the route commercially so require no additional funding from the local authority for this high frequency save for concession pass holder redemption and similar factors (all these of course have been ongoing expenses for years Richard!)?

Remember those all over bus adverts WMPTE had prior to deregulation in the 1980s warning about what may happen if deregulation happened. Maybe Richard will follow in a similar vein with all over adverts outlining his vision for a 'better(!!!!)' network? I can imagine the slogans now: 'Do you want us to reduce frequencies and increase tax payer costs???? Of course you do as we know best!' 'Why wait 5 minutes for a bus when we can make you wait 15!' 'Remember it's your money so we do t care how we spend, sorry waste, it'! Etc etc etc.

Truly transport in the West Midlands is going to be truly f***ed with these clowns in charge, they will make Greater Manchester look like a well oiled machine in comparison! At least they will only lose a few million there.

[Gareth]

The public consultation is not an easy thing to fill out, even the short questionnaire. I think maybe more simplified language would be better in getting more general public responses.
You'll need to read in depth the whole proposal (and understand it). This is certainly not for the armchair enthusiast who only worry about what gearbox noise they'll hear on which route.

[Stu]

Having briefly overviewed the 'executive summary' document, I have a couple of initial thoughts.

It seems that the WMCA is planning to buy depots and vehicles, to then lease back to operators to run buses under contract.

The WMCA is also intending to keep all revenue from fares, and contracts to run services will be set at fixed rates.

Now surely when bidding to run these contracts, private operators are going to want to make some kind of profit on their endeavour - after all, no point in getting involved if you can't make a profit, that's how businesses naturally work.

On the surface, it seems to me that this is actually going to cost the WMCA more to operate bus services than it does now.

I wonder why the WMCA never considered the option of forming its own company to run the bus services itself?

[j789]

Having briefly overviewed the 'executive summary' document, I have a couple of initial thoughts.

It seems that the WMCA is planning to buy depots and vehicles, to then lease back to operators to run buses under contract.

The WMCA is also intending to keep all revenue from fares, and contracts to run services will be set at fixed rates.

Now surely when bidding to run these contracts, private operators are going to want to make some kind of profit on their endeavour - after all, no point in getting involved if you can't make a profit, that's how businesses naturally work.

On the surface, it seems to me that this is actually going to cost the WMCA more to operate bus services than it does now.

I wonder why the WMCA never considered the option of forming its own company to run the bus services itself?

Your last point about the authority not running its own company instead of franchising is likely to avoid the huge pitfalls (and associated costs) of having to employ all the required staff for the company.

Those employees are currently in employed by a range of different companies so it would be very challenging to negotiate fair terms with all staff doing similar jobs as they likely have different conditions to each other in their current companies which would be a nightmare to sort out so people didn't feel short changed.

Throw in other costs like taking on pensions (and associated risks on those) and it quickly becomes apparent how much more appealing franchising is for the local authority compared with outright ownership of an operating company.

Perhaps another reason may also be that an outright ownership model may be open to more claims for compensation from current operators that franchising can mitigate to an extent. 

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

This sums up the intellectual capacity of Mr Parker and Co suggesting cuts to high frequency routes would be cost savings. Does he not understand that currently both NX and Diamond operate on the route commercially so require no additional funding from the local authority for this high frequency save for concession pass holder redemption and similar factors (all these of course have been ongoing expenses for years Richard!)?

Remember those all over bus adverts WMPTE had prior to deregulation in the 1980s warning about what may happen if deregulation happened. Maybe Richard will follow in a similar vein with all over adverts outlining his vision for a 'better(!!!!)' network? I can imagine the slogans now: 'Do you want us to reduce frequencies and increase tax payer costs???? Of course you do as we know best!' 'Why wait 5 minutes for a bus when we can make you wait 15!' 'Remember it's your money so we do t care how we spend, sorry waste, it'! Etc etc etc.

Truly transport in the West Midlands is going to be truly f***ed with these clowns in charge, they will make Greater Manchester look like a well oiled machine in comparison! At least they will only lose a few million there.

The Sutton Services are also commercial, most services are there is a small amount of Tendered Journeys and even Comercial routes during they day that are tendered those could be given to other operators, but Commercial services I Don't think NX or Diamond would be happy to lose a route like the 50 a route both Operators have spent good money on upgrading to High Spec Veichles at the time and Brand New to, the 19/69 plate Plattys for NX and the 20 plate StreetDecks although maybe not ordered new for the WM I think StreetLite's were for Diamond. What could happen with the 50 is the old WMB Joint corridor like the WA 31/32 and old WB 40 42/43/43A routes, where NX and Diamond run the 50 together

[Gareth]

The Sutton Services are also commercial, most services are there is a small amount of Tendered Journeys and even Comercial routes during they day that are tendered those could be given to other operators, but Commercial services I Don't think NX or Diamond would be happy to lose a route like the 50 a route both Operators have spent good money on upgrading to High Spec Veichles at the time and Brand New to, the 19/69 plate Plattys for NX and the 20 plate StreetDecks although maybe not ordered new for the WM I think StreetLite's were for Diamond. What could happen with the 50 is the old WMB Joint corridor like the WA 31/32 and old WB 40 42/43/43A routes, where NX and Diamond run the 50 together

With franchising there will be no 'joint corridor' working on the 50 by different operators. There will be no competition on any route. 

[Stu]

I Don't think NX or Diamond would be happy to lose a route like the 50 a route both Operators have spent good money on upgrading to High Spec Veichles at the time and Brand New to, the 19/69 plate Plattys for NX and the 20 plate StreetDecks although maybe not ordered new for the WM I think StreetLite's were for Diamond. What could happen with the 50 is the old WMB Joint corridor like the WA 31/32 and old WB 40 42/43/43A routes, where NX and Diamond run the 50 together

I don't think you've grasped how franchising will work.

Bus operators will be paid a contracted rate to provide a service using a set number of vehicles - a fixed amount determined by operational costs plus a profit margin (no-one's going to get involved unless there's money to be made!).

As long as the service is provided in line with contractual terms, as TfWM would be collecting all the fare revenue, the buses could run around empty as far as the operators are concerned. There won't be any more commercial competition or joint partnerships.

[Stu]

The public consultation is not an easy thing to fill out, even the short questionnaire. I think maybe more simplified language would be better in getting more general public responses.
You'll need to read in depth the whole proposal (and understand it). This is certainly not for the armchair enthusiast who only worry about what gearbox noise they'll hear on which route.

I think this is part of the idea - either people will just be put off from participating and "having their say" due to the complexity of it, or the only people that complete the survey will be those who wholeheartedly agree, without even looking at any of the associated documents, because they've been sold an idea that buses will "be cheaper and more reliable".

Your last point about the authority not running its own company instead of franchising is likely to avoid the huge pitfalls (and associated costs) of having to employ all the required staff for the company.

Those employees are currently in employed by a range of different companies so it would be very challenging to negotiate fair terms with all staff doing similar jobs as they likely have different conditions to each other in their current companies which would be a nightmare to sort out so people didn't feel short changed.

Throw in other costs like taking on pensions (and associated risks on those) and it quickly becomes apparent how much more appealing franchising is for the local authority compared with outright ownership of an operating company.

Perhaps another reason may also be that an outright ownership model may be open to more claims for compensation from current operators that franchising can mitigate to an extent.

That is undoubtedly true, but those costs will be factored in by operators when it comes to bidding on contracts.

For many companies, it seems like the cheaper or 'easier' option to just outsource or contract-out work.

Whichever way you do it though, you still end up with problems with unions. Franchising won't stop workers from going on strike. Look at refuse collections in Birmingham and Sandwell - Birmingham operate their service themselves, while Sandwell use an external contractor (Serco). As soon as the unions dig their heels in, then the service crumbles.