West midlands bus franchising

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

As my Dad Said Privatisation might actually be a bad thing as if services aren't cost effective so I'll take the 37 by me of an evening or even the 34 they usually get scrapped so you lose connections, investment will happen at once then not again as when they run out of money they don't have funds unlike NX to buy new buses. 

Other problems are we have loads of Independent Operators Banga, Chaserider, Let's Go, Kev's, Select to name a few who operate serviced in the case of Kev's, Select and Chaserider who operate mostly out the West Midlands only there 70, 71, 67, 876, 878 operate into the Midlands and the Evening 5/5A do they have to meet our Franchising requirements. My dad is currently in Cheadle today On a Work Meeting, I'll ask him how much a bus ticket was over there it might be £2 but If he got a daysaver I'll ask hoe much it was. But I've noticed Stagecoach local services there aren't Franchised up and neither is Nexus bus. I did however notice the Nexus Buses operated late at night but were Mellors, is that possibly what might have to happen here. I consider 11 or 12 late running for local buses as in many places only the intercity buses run that late 

I consider it impressive if I did a shift until 11:50 in the evening in West Bromwich that I could still get home, many buses across the country Don't run that late. I think people didn't want Mr Street as they didn't want the Tories, I didn't want him as to me we Don't need the Trams going everywhere or Crosscity Buses I'm sure Druids Heath Passengers don't Care about Dudley Passengers and vice Versa I didn't want Sprint either. But I didn't want Labour either as this would happen. 

What we ideally need is the Tram extensions to be scrapped, Sprint to and the Crosscity network more focus put onto our existing transport, if Buses are important Roads put more Bus Priorities in and stop doing silly pointless Roadworks that make buses either miss out Stops or run in convoys and help operators do more to promote it. 

[Jack D]

The 96 uses mostly mellors for there night service

[Lukeee]

If the passenger numbers aren't that high it makes sense to run night services with a Mellor, would imagine the fuel costs would be lower

[j789]

If the passenger numbers aren't that high it makes sense to run night services with a Mellor, would imagine the fuel costs would be lower

No doubt the smaller buses would be cheaper on fuel but that isn't the major cost associated with night services - it's manpower.

Not only do you have to pay the driver (most likely a higher rate of pay than day work too) you also need to have garage staff available for breakdowns, etc. These staff costs soon add up as it doesn't matter whether you can run a night service with one vehicle or 5, the garage staff stool need to be available so the cost is the same.

Ironically if you could scale up the number of night services being run at each garage, the garage staff costs would reduce as a % of overall expenditure as they would be spread out over more services.

As such, I think for Birmingham night services to work effectively they need to be run from one garage no matter what the route to minimise these additional garage costs. Having one or two routes run from different garages is not cost efficient.

[LD713821]

Areas like Solihull/Coventry have no reason to have a night bus. Birmingham yes, but they need to make sure people know about it and they use it so it doesn't get scrapped

To be honest, the current system is failing so why not give franchising a go, it may bring more competition into the network as now its just NX having a monopoly

The new Mayor Richard seems to be useless atm tho - just copying whatever Andy Burnham says and does. Seen Andy Street being interviewed & talking more about HS2 going to North compared to Richard

[2206]

To be honest, the current system is failing so why not give franchising a go, it may bring more competition into the network as now its just NX having a monopoly

In what way is it failing?
From my journeys on the 14, 94/95's nearly every day I can't see how it is?

[Lukeee]

No doubt the smaller buses would be cheaper on fuel but that isn't the major cost associated with night services - it's manpower.

Not only do you have to pay the driver (most likely a higher rate of pay than day work too) you also need to have garage staff available for breakdowns, etc. These staff costs soon add up as it doesn't matter whether you can run a night service with one vehicle or 5, the garage staff stool need to be available so the cost is the same.

Ironically if you could scale up the number of night services being run at each garage, the garage staff costs would reduce as a % of overall expenditure as they would be spread out over more services.

As such, I think for Birmingham night services to work effectively they need to be run from one garage no matter what the route to minimise these additional garage costs. Having one or two routes run from different garages is not cost efficient.

That would be the most cost effective way to run them all from one garage. However I feel like night services struggle for passengers as more and more people seem to use taxi services such as uber (If travelling in a group this can work out cheaper).

[OH25]

They should run it how Dublin run their night buses. 

All leave at the same time on the hour and do the route one way to the end running dead back to the city afterwards. 

They all have slight variations to their normal route sometimes going further or a different way.

[LD713821]

In what way is it failing?
From my journeys on the 14, 94/95's nearly every day I can't see how it is?

You should try the Stratford Rd 6 on weekdays where there is many missing buses so you have to wait over 20 minutes on a 'high frequency' road for an overcrowded bus. I know there is similar problems like that in Coventry .

Single tickets here are about to go up to £2.90 for Adults if Labour cancel the £2 Cap (which is looking likely) at the start of 2025 and that will be embarrassing as its £1.75 in London and £2.00 in Manchester (correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's the uncapped price in Manchester for Bee Network)


But NX has improved Warwick Rd this year though - they finally put DDs on it which has reduced overcrowding, other issues for that are mostly out of their control like traffic

[Tony]

You should try the Stratford Rd 6 on weekdays where there is many missing buses so you have to wait over 20 minutes on a 'high frequency' road for an overcrowded bus. I know there is similar problems like that in Coventry .

It is very rare there's any 'missing' buses on the Stratford Road, just late running ones.

[Stu]

You should try the Stratford Rd 6 on weekdays where there is many missing buses so you have to wait over 20 minutes on a 'high frequency' road for an overcrowded bus. I know there is similar problems like that in Coventry .

But NX has improved Warwick Rd this year though - they finally put DDs on it which has reduced overcrowding, other issues for that are mostly out of their control like traffic

The buses on the 6 aren't 'missing' - the gaps that appear in service are due to buses being delayed because of traffic, notoriously through Shirley and Sparkhill, again that's mainly out of NX's control.

Buses that arrive late into Birmingham will be late leaving towards Solihull, and vice-versa.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

Part of the reason they won't work as I already said is due to Crime off buses people of a young age who these services would be targeted at wouldn't feel safe at night walking through certain areas. I could see it being that the 51 gets me to Walsall at half one and if they chose to run a 34 or 37 short to Darlaston at Two Am I still have half an hour to wait in Walsall nothing is open, the nearest pub is the Black Country Arms or Red Lion (Can be dodgy) the BCA is the safest bet but that puts you in parts of the town that are dodgy, usually I would walk until I had 5 minutes to wait but doing that means Walking through Pleck again I Don't fancy it. What they need to do is maybe make sure there are Police/BTP/NX/TFWM Staff around montionoring ASB and Crime. It's alright saying the last 37 can run to Willenhall at 3AM but as we get into the Half Term People in Churchill Ave can't use it as kids are likely to have smashed the bus up. 

Darlaston football club has been burgled twice in the last two weeks. If Buses ran later Kids would wait later to attack them. I couldn't see Late night 29's working due to the ASB (Although it seems to be Beechdale and Bentley they are attacking the buses recently) you need people to feel safe waiting for the late night buses even If they know exist would they wait for them when they know it isn't safe. 

Me and my family Walked back through Birmingham on a Sunday about 2-4PM after getting of a coach at Digbeth we had Beggars and people acting dodgy from Moor Street to Bull Street Tram stop. When we got to Wednesbury we got a cab. So put that on a Friday/Saturday/Sunday Morning and things would be worse

[wembley86]

There can be so many ways this franchising plan could go.  

Who remembers the old Sandwell and Dudley bus review Centro did some years back or Wil it be done when tenders are up for renewal.

[Stu]

And here we go already, "bus fares can be cheaper when they are franchised":

Mayor renews calls for public control of West Midlands buses as £2 cap is scrapped
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/mayor-renews-calls-public-control-30259342

Mr Parker said both Greater Manchester and London are able to keep bus fares low because they have adopted a bus franchising model - a system he is keen to implement in this region.

What he fails to point out though is that fares are able to be capped in both those areas because they are both subsidised by local taxpayers, or through government funding.

Bus services cost money to run, and the revenue that comes from paying passengers needs to at least cover those operating costs, otherwise the service is 'not economically viable'.

This is the difference between privately operated commercial services, and publicly funded 'social' services.

Mr Parker seems to object to the amount of subsidy that NX is receiving via TfWM to maintain the current bus network as it is based on the costs to operate it, yet is under some delusion that under a franchised model, bus fares can be kept low without its operators making huge losses.

We can't have it all. How would YOU feel if your council tax bill increased by £700 a year, but you were then able to enjoy free bus travel?

Everything comes at a cost! Either directly, or indirectly.

[suavegarv]

Have the total and ongoing costs of franchising in Manchester been revealed?