West midlands bus franchising

[2206]

The 63, 97A and X1 are the services remaining with the all night services.

The 50 and 74 also had them for several years.

I'm pretty sure they was considering to give the 9, 51 and 87 all night services but was dropped.

The 74 still runs in the very early hours on Saturday and Sunday mornings.
I think the 9 like the 74, had very early journeys on Saturday and Sunday mornings as well at one point, but these ceased a few years ago now.

I'd guess as well there  probably isn't a great amount of demand for buses to run at that time of day on most services.

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

I think the 74 has an hour gap in it maybe so last bus is at 2AM and then resumes at 3AM the Branding used to say it is a 24hr service, the 97 did to. 

[Rachvince53]

There were also night services in Wolverhampton at one time I believe. 

[BlackCountryBusSpotter]

There were also night services in Wolverhampton at one time I believe.

79 I think was one remember about 8-9 years ago the last bus into Darlo was about half one back to Wolvo and about 1AM to West Bromwich with the first bus being at 4. The 79 now finishes at Midnight from West Bromwich, The 529, 126 and maybe the 1 255/256 were possibly the other ones, the 40 also ran quite late about 10 years ago

[markcf83]

If the mayor wants to introduce night buses, it is going to come at a huge cost to the taxpayer, as these services will have to be subsidised, and it makes little sense to throw money at operators to run buses around empty during the dead of night.

Not forgetting paying the drivers extra for working unsocial hours too. 

[Midland 2541]

There were also night services in Wolverhampton at one time I believe.

901-904 were the Wolverhampton night buses. Not too sure when they started, but they ended around early 2006.

Until roughly the same era (2005-2008), Birmingham still had a not insubstantial night network too. Last ones were gone by around 2008 though.

[CJS47]

WB ran night services in the late 80s, 78N Wolverhampton to Birmingham, 529N and 404N which interworked.

[suavegarv]

The mayor commented that NX receives £50 million a year in subsidies in his comments about night buses not being "economically viable". 
He always seems to criticise NX as if they're the only operator in the West Midlands.
Surely a similar amount or more will need to be paid under franchising? Does he think companies will run services for free?

[Straightlines]

The mayor commented that NX receives £50 million a year in subsidies in his comments about night buses not being "economically viable".
He always seems to criticise NX as if they're the only operator in the West Midlands.
Surely a similar amount or more will need to be paid under franchising? Does he think companies will run services for free?

They have over 95% of market share - who do you want him to criticise, Kev's!?

[Stu]

The mayor commented that NX receives £50 million a year in subsidies in his comments about night buses not being "economically viable".
He always seems to criticise NX as if they're the only operator in the West Midlands.
Surely a similar amount or more will need to be paid under franchising? Does he think companies will run services for free?

Yes, I've seen a similar figure being quoted in other press articles on bus franchising.

I'd like to see the mayor break down this figure, as I believe as well as what NX get paid to run contracted tenders, the amount also includes other sums awarded to TfWM by the UK government, BSOG, BSIP, etc, which would also be paid to other operators, not just NX, in order to keep bus services operating.

You will probably find this £50m figure - wherever it has come from - is what TfWM pay out to ALL bus operators, not just NX.

This isn't the first time that Labour people have been spouting out figures that were inaccurate, I recall some furore about claims of how many services had been 'axed' in the West Midlands, when in reality while some services had been combined into others, little mileage had actually been lost.

And then of course during the NX strikes you had Sharon Graham of Unite and her wildly exaggerated figures of 'billions of pounds of revenue and millions of pounds of profit' as she didn't understand the difference between the Mobico Group and it's relatively little subsidiary NX Bus.

[RobertJ21a]

Mayor apparently seems to think there isn't any Night buses in the West Midlands hmm NX running to 11PM Midnight or even 2/3AM isn't a night Bus then forgetting the 24hr X1, 97, he says he wants to introduce them. If this for areas like Cannock, Shropshire or even some of the smaller areas outside of the major towns and cities, I don't think they are going to work because they are not economically viable no point running a bus with just the driver if the company can't pay the driver's or the Diesel. Most NX Services finish at 11/Midnight and usually have 1 to 2 people on on a Weekday. Have seen the last 37 terminate at Darlaston before and about 5 to 6 people got off maybe more. The 34 passing it had about 2  people on and the 79 that came in had about 4 people on with 2 getting of at Darlaston. Unless I have understood this wrong we have Night services maybe not London level but when I tell people in the sticks our last bus is at Midnight or Quarter past 11 they get jealous as there Last Bus is at 5 or 6PM

11 or 12 isn't particularly late for such a major area - Nottingham and Leicester have regular buses just as late.

[Mike K]

A lot of the higher frequency Birmingham routes run commercially 21 hours a day, with the first bus inbound at around 4am and the last bus outbound at around 1am. 

[j789]

They have over 95% of market share - who do you want him to criticise, Kev's!?

Commercial services yes but NX certainly don't run anywhere near that % of fully subsidised routes - look at the routes Diamond run in the West Mids - far more subsidised routes than commercial ones.

This new mayor is a clueless buffoon and is just repeating what that idiot Burnham said about First and Stagecoach in Manchester. It will take a few years until the mess that will be the 'Bee Network' is fully costed and only then will people realise that they have been absolutely shafted. 

Always easy for politicians to blame big companies as they are always seen as the 'bad guys' yet any one in this industry with half a brain can see that what this mayor spouts is a load of unrealistic rubbish. 

[Straightlines]

Commercial services yes but NX certainly don't run anywhere near that % of fully subsidised routes - look at the routes Diamond run in the West Mids - far more subsidised routes than commercial ones.

This new mayor is a clueless buffoon and is just repeating what that idiot Burnham said about First and Stagecoach in Manchester. It will take a few years until the mess that will be the 'Bee Network' is fully costed and only then will people realise that they have been absolutely shafted.

Always easy for politicians to blame big companies as they are always seen as the 'bad guys' yet any one in this industry with half a brain can see that what this mayor spouts is a load of unrealistic rubbish.

I said market share which anyone with half a brain would understand encompasses the overall market.

NXWM receive a lot more "subsidy" these days than perhaps meets the eye and I understand will require more to maintain the existing network moving forward.

[j789]

I said market share which anyone with half a brain would understand encompasses the overall market.

NXWM receive a lot more "subsidy" these days than perhaps meets the eye and I understand will require more to maintain the existing network moving forward.

A lot of that coming from the £2 fare which pretty much all operators are currently claiming but of course NX are the ones criticised. 

If you bother to look at the passenger growth figures post- COVID you will see that the £2 fare has had a massively positive impact in the West Midlands clawing back some of the lost passengers due to the pandemic. This 'subsidy' has had a very positive impact so criticising companies for this subsidy is absolutely half brained! More people using the bus is a good thing! No doubt Mayor Rich will happily take the positive headlines for passenger growth in the West Mids but throws all 'subsidy' into one bracket to beat NX with. Does the mayor not realise that a franchise system will also not entail massive subsidy???????? He conveniently forgets to mention this in his rants of course.

We've just got the farm foods version of Burnham as Mayor with a smaller potential chequebook and clearly zero clue of how to operate a transport network.