Strike Action

[Rachvince53]

An all out strike is unlikely at least at first. In all likelihood,  an overtime ban would most likely be the first action in my opinion. 

[Kevin_Brum12]

The "greed" is not with bus drivers in Coventry or engineers in Walsall. It is with the city spivs in the square mile and the right wing zealot politicians who have stoked the fire of double digit inflation, rising food and energy prices and caused millions of families up and down the country worried about how they are going to make ends meet. It was not that long ago we were considering public transport employees as key workers and were clapping for them.

It also worth remembering that bus drivers were on the front line in the pandemic and some in London died in the early period where there were no masks or mitigations.


The 14% rise is I presume based on negotiations between UNITE and NXWM management. What we do not know is the starting positions on both sides. It is well known that in pay negotiations employer and unions start from a position which is poles apart, but in the end through negotiation and engagement a compromise is reached. If both sides head into a protracted dispute with hot-headedness the outcome will not be good. 

People are turning away from the railways to the car on their driveway because of the continual unreliability whether there is a strike or not. A lot of bus users do not have that choice, but could end up making fewer journeys or trading down in terms of not buying passes, or moving to the parasites like Uber rather than using a bus. Some wise heads on both sides, rather than hot heads are needed.

[Kevin_Brum12]

NX Coventry garage on 50p an hour more than there NXWM GARAGE  counterparts, you have Stagecoach down there might have something to do with it.

It may do, but Stagecoach are not known for being brilliant payers and as we've seen with the tendering shambles in Birmingham they are now turning to agencies to recruit drivers rather than employing them directly. As anyone who has had to rely on agency work in any sector will tell you, it is a very insecure existence where you could lose you job very quickly.


Coventry I seem to recall were on strike at the time of deregulation in 1986 over redundancies there and changes to terms? I could imagine there being some difference in pay between WMPTE/WMT the
Northern/Southern Division and East/Coventry historically but not so much because of competition with Midland Red South but with other employers in the area after workers like Plessey, Jaguar, Alvis and Peugeot-Talbot. All now long gone of course.

[Straightlines]

It may do, but Stagecoach are not known for being brilliant payers

They pay far more than NXWM for new starters!

[Kevin_Brum12]

They pay far more than NXWM for new starters!

The agency or Stagecoach?

Stagecoach weren't known for being good payers in the North of England and there has been strife up there over the years. 

[Straightlines]

The agency or Stagecoach?

Stagecoach weren't known for being good payers in the North of England and there has been strife up there over the years.

Stagecoach, as per your comment and we aren't in the North of England.

You can find the relevant vacancies and pay rates on the respective operator sites if you are interested!

[j789]

They pay far more than NXWM for new starters!

Perhaps to start with but as was mentioned previously it seems new drivers are being fast tracked in to top rate (understandably in the current market).

It's not so long ago that the starting rate was around £10 an hour, now after a year or so if they are on £14+ then that's a 40% increase over a very short period of time. Whilst I sympathise with experienced drivers (I have been there in these disputes with First in previous years), they can't expect the same level of pay rise as new starters.

The one common complaint from older drivers has always been how poor the starting rates were when they started (and why so many newbies leave so early on in their careers) so actually increasing pay rates quickly for these people is a good thing. It's a shame though it seems to be a case of 'them v us' (newbies v experienced) rather than accepting it is for the greater good of the whole driving profession to have higher starting wages.

I am in no way saying experienced drivers don't deserve a decent pay rise, they do and if the current offer is £15.57 then I'm sure there is leeway to get that to £16 and hopefully that would be a happy compromise on both sides. Strikes don't benefit anyone so hopefully common sense prevails here.

[ellspurs]

https://stagecoach.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External/details/Bus---PCV-Driver---Rugby-Depot_JR2809?locations=337b73ce2a8d0101fa6a4bd1fba90000

Quick check on Stagecoach's site for Rugby drivers indicates an annualised salary of £28,500 which, at 39 hours a week, works out to around £14.06/hour. 

The use of "annualised" here may mean they pay the same rate per month over the year and you work a set number of hours per year, but I think only my old work place used to do that.

[metrocity]

Perhaps to start with but as was mentioned previously it seems new drivers are being fast tracked in to top rate (understandably in the current market).

It's not so long ago that the starting rate was around £10 an hour, now after a year or so if they are on £14+ then that's a 40% increase over a very short period of time. Whilst I sympathise with experienced drivers (I have been there in these disputes with First in previous years), they can't expect the same level of pay rise as new starters.

The one common complaint from older drivers has always been how poor the starting rates were when they started (and why so many newbies leave so early on in their careers) so actually increasing pay rates quickly for these people is a good thing. It's a shame though it seems to be a case of 'them v us' (newbies v experienced) rather than accepting it is for the greater good of the whole driving profession to have higher starting wages.

I am in no way saying experienced drivers don't deserve a decent pay rise, they do and if the current offer is £15.57 then I'm sure there is leeway to get that to £16 and hopefully that would be a happy compromise on both sides. Strikes don't benefit anyone so hopefully common sense prevails here.

Your presumption that the issue revolves solely around the hourly rate on offer is wrong 

[MW]

I've posted before, but just so the non bus drivers understand what drivers mean by playing with numbers. They all do it. (Except Kevs & LandFlight as far as I'm aware).

NX proposed rate
£16 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £120. NX only pay 7.5 hours (driving time) and not the whole shift. Effectively £12 per hour.

NX current starter rate
£11.80 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £88.50. As above, NX pay 7.5 hours. Effectively £8.85 per hour.

Stagecoach (Nuneaton)
£14 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £120.40. Stagecoach deduct 1hr 20 for your break, so 8.6 hours. Effectively £12.04 per hour.

Kevs
£11.50 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £115. No nonsense or trickery. They pay per hour you're at work. Effectively £11.50 per hour.

Diamond
£11.50 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £97.75. Diamond deduct up to 1hr 30 hours. Based on 8.5 hours, effectively £9.78 per hour.

LandFlight
£10.35 an hour on a 10 hour shift = £103.50. No nonsense or trickery. They pay per hour you're at work. Effectively £10.35 per hour.


Figures are correct as far as I'm aware. Subject to corrections if anybody states different.

Each company then has its own conditions and management such as faulty vehicles in service / no heating / unsociable hours / passengers you'd like to punch in the face or generally bullsh*t management.

[pb2012]

Kevs & landflight paid break Time??

[MW]

Kevs & landflight paid break Time??

Yes. Straight through.

Lots of NX / Diamond drivers seem to look down on Kevs / LandFlight pay wise but the majority of the time they are the same or pay more.

[j789]

Yes. Straight through.

Lots of NX / Diamond drivers seem to look down on Kevs / LandFlight pay wise but the majority of the time they are the same or pay more.

Yes but that is an overly simplistic generalisation of the situation. Drivers at those smaller companies have significantly less opportunity for overtime driving. Those operators offer their drivers set working hours, no lates or Sundays, etc which is obviously a good thing if you have a family BUT... the nature of being a small company running a few routes means the opportunity for regular overtime to top up wages is just not there.

So yes paid breaks etc sound nice but if your limited to a 40 hour week at the higher £11.50 level then that's all you can earn with them (unless you can get p/t work with another operator which gets very messy with driving hour regs). This works out about weekly £450 pre tax, not a very good salary in this day and age even if you are getting a good work life balance. Obviously, this suits some drivers who don't care about earning as much as possible (or those older drivers wanting less hassle and an easier driving life) which is why smaller operators will mostly always be able to recruit the few drivers they need.

With larger operators, overtime is one of the perks and allows drivers to earn more than £450 a week should they wish too. Additionally, overtime can be worked in addition to a set shift on the same day. I've never worked for NXWM but have friends who do who have highlighted this to me. That set shift rate is true but if drivers choose to work additional overtime on that day after their shift ends, they get paid for those hours as well. Therefore, the pay comparison shown previously is not really accurate as it doesn't take into account the fact that drivers can earn more than that per day if they choose to do overtime. 

Also, the set shift rate is paid even if you only work a 6 hour shift, quite a few 'early' shifts are less than the current 7 hours 36 mins so over the week it evens out even if you have to do a few longer shifts.

I've always thought this system of set shift pay is odd as the companies I have worked for paid actual hours worked minus up to 1hour 30 min break. Overall though, I don't think either system has any massive advantages over the other. 

[MW]

I'm not going to reply to most of that because it's complete and utter nonsense. 

To put it simply, NX base their wages on a 38 hour week, except it's not 38 hours. It's around 50 hours including breaks.

Let me break it down further for you. 

Based on NX starter rate:

£11.80 x 38 (hours) = £448.40

Now let's compare like for like with say LandFlight:

£10.35 x 50 (hours) = £517.50

You are already £69.10 per week better off at LandFlight.


Let's say you needed the overtime and you worked 7 days flat at either operator:

7 days at NX:

£11.80 x 53 (hours (2 extra 7.5 days added) = £625.40

7 days at LandFlight:

£10.35 x 70 (hours) = £724.50


Your nonsense about lack of overtime is exactly that; nonsense. 

[metrocity]

I'm not going to reply to most of that because it's complete and utter nonsense.

To put it simply, NX base their wages on a 38 hour week, except it's not 38 hours. It's around 50 hours including breaks.

Let me break it down further for you.

Based on NX starter rate:

£11.80 x 38 (hours) = £448.40

Now let's compare like for like with say LandFlight:

£10.35 x 50 (hours) = £517.50

You are already £69.10 per week better off at LandFlight.


Let's say you needed the overtime and you worked 7 days flat at either operator:

7 days at NX:

£11.80 x 53 (hours (2 extra 7.5 days added) = £625.40

7 days at LandFlight:

£10.35 x 70 (hours) = £724.50


Your nonsense about lack of overtime is exactly that; nonsense.

I agree with you