Messages

[Swift Go]

So what you are saying Tony is that because mTickets are not issued or identified by the ticket machine, they have to be presented to the driver in the same was as a paper ticket, where a timer is required on the mTicket to provide a "window of opportunity" to give the user time to activate their ticket before boarding the bus, before the ticket auto expires, to prevent reuse.

Therefore enabling customers to abuse this protocol to their advantage, by using the ticket on as many journeys they require within this 30 min "window of opportunity" – which WMT Ltd accepts as valid practice?

A practice that is not permitted if the customer is using other WMT Ltd Single ticket / fare issued – when purchased using a system that works as intended.

It is not the customer's fault that WMT Ltd can't install adequate equipment on their vehicles to validate tickets issued by the company for travel.

Why should customers be penalised for paying by cash / Swift PAYG / Swift Go - because those systems work as intended?

Customers purchasing single fares issued as a paper ticket; should be able to present the same ticket for use on any number of WMT Ltd services within 30 mins of the time stamped on the ticket issued.

With Swift Go, operators can define the rules of travel. Where, unlike mTicket, each time the user taps in with Swift Go, the time, stop, route and vehicle boarded is recorded, leaving a unique anonymous digital tail across the network, that helps transport planners identify common travel patterns to design a bus network that meets customer requirements.

mTickets are incapable of collecting this vital information. Unless WMT Ltd are not informing mTicket users the app is "spyware" using their device's GPS/network IP, to track the user's every movement – perhaps another reason the user is told to keep the device on at all times?

If tapping in using Swift Go on NXWM services, NXWM can set a rule that charges a capped fare of £2.40 for all tap ins within the first 30 mins of use for that day. Thereafter, as done now, the customer is capped at Day Saver rate, capped further at 3 and 5 days if making the same journey for the number of days per week, paid in arrears, every Sunday.

Where as mTicket forces the customer to commit to pay for a ticket in advance, for journeys the user may not even make, or be forced to pay more for an additional ticket, due to an unforeseen need to travel on other days in the week, or beyond the required Low Fare Zone or a need to use another operator.

With Swift Go, because you pay in arrears, your fare is auto upgraded depending on your next move. From £3 to £4 if you tap in outside the initial NXWM Low Fare Zone. If an additional operator is required to the normal operator of choice, no problems, the normal operator's day cap (NXWM LFZ Walsall £3) is auto upgraded to an nBus equivalent (nBus Walsall £3.20) for the day or 3/5 days capped, which ever is the cheapest. Whereas the user is forced to pay an additional fare when using NXWM mTicket app or Diamond mTicket app, as they have already committed to purchasing the wrong ticket, or be charged separate fares for each operator if tapping in with a Bank Card.

To make an assumption that not many people make more than one journey paying an NXWM mTicket Single – can only be deduced by comparing the number of mTicket sales against all ticket sales made on a particular day.

Where at a guess, I assume mTickets are not the bulk purchase, and of those very few buy mTicket Singles. Therefore by law of averages one can claim not many people use mTicket Singles, multiple times, compared to other tickets sold - but as for the exact figure NXWM don't actually know, because that data is not recorded.

Unlike Swift Go, which records the time, stop, route and vehicle boarded, each time the card is tapped in - using an inert plastic card that fits easily into purse/wallet/back pocket, which does not need the user to spend £100+ on an electronic device to install the mTicket app on, which also requires an external power supply to ensure the ticket remains valid, or the user faces a criminal charge for fare evasion. The Swift customer can view their travel log and current fare (to pay from their Swift Account, via a number of payment methods on the coming Sunday) at anytime, when accessing their account online or the TfWM app.

Why does WMT Ltd still encourage customers to use the inferior mTicket app that provides loop holes that customers can exploit to the company's detriment, by offering only the cheapest tickets on the mTicket platform, like a carrot to lure people to download the app (prime use being to harvest customer personal details?), instead of promoting the full gamut of WMT Ltd fares on Swift, a platform that provides greater flexibility for both customer and operator, with no loopholes that customers can exploit, as well as helping planners know how users are accessing the network, the fares being used, and help reduce fare evasion - with a need to validate the Swift card on a pad each time the user boards a bus?

Especially when you consider membership to the WM Bus Alliance includes a promise from the operator to support the Swift platform.

You'll never last on here!

Yes I think if a ticket is no longer available anymore for good communication it would make sense for them to at least put up a passenger notice on the buses  and on the website stating the ticket has now been withdrawn.

You would think wouldn't you? At the same time the Evening Saver 'disappeared' again with absolutely no notice.

I tweeted them asking about it and got a very curt 'the ticket is discontinued' 

When I queried the lack of publicity I was informed it 'would appear on the website later today'

NX don't give a monkeys about customers at the moment, one can only assume the Stagecoach fiasco has left them absolutely on their backsides judging by some of the knee jerk decisions being thrown about by those running the operation. 

The rate of decline is alarming. 

Off-topic posts about Sutton services split into new topic here:
http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=6200.0

May I remind members that this thread is for discussing the operator Claribel Coaches and their current services.

For continued discussion of services that are changing operator, please use the thread(s) of that operator.

Well seeing as my comment was in reply to the site owner, who was posting in this thread, perhaps you could explain whyI was 'off topic'?

Walsall will probably have more suitably sized vehicles for these routes than Perry Barr to. Might see 8XX.

This is the wrong way round to decide where you operate bus services from, believe me from experience.

I believe the 68 had been ran from Bordesley and then Perry Barr.

Correct, 'dumping grounds'

And when Bordesley was needed to pick up more overspill after the Lea Hall axe, it went to PB, and when PB needed to pick Walsall work up due to problems there, the axe fell altogether.

This is exactly my point, viable services removed to accommodate NX's property issues. Not customers.

The X15 is being included into the running boards covering all these routes as well. NXWM instead of bidding for all the different routes put one combined bid in to cover the X15, 77, 167, 168 & 604 which will all be run by Walsall garage

You couldn't make it up.

Tony I love your website and will always thank you for beginning it but there is a career waiting for you somewhere in PR.

I apologise in advance for the long post incoming, I'm sure it won't be to every one's taste but here goes.

So Sutton Coldfield and Erdington are to have the privilege of paying public money to National Express to cobble together a load of pretty useless and unviable services and timetables that are of little use to anyone and will do nothing to generate extra use of bus services. And they will be operated by Walsall depot. What could possibly go wrong? A traffic maelstrom with parachuted in buses and drivers with no back up when it all inevitably goes tits up, something NX can't even currently deal with when the depot is round the corner. Remember Arriva in Stafford anyone?

But let's remind ourselves of how we got where we are today. 15 years ago I remember getting into a long discussion on here regards the wanton vandalism that NX inflicted on this area with the carving up of the 68A/C. At the time we were told that the service wasn't being withdrawn due to passenger numbers (any fool could see it was viable, having a useful route and practical frequency) but due to 'reliability issues'. The issues? NX had been trying to run the Sutton and Erdington circular route from Lea Hall (sound familiar?) the result being that if or when anything went wrong no bus or driver was anywhere near the situation to put it right. When Lea Hall was finally closed without replacement (a huge mistake that has well and truly bitten them on the arse since, and continues to), and NX set about scattering its work to far flung, unsuitable homes, alas there was no room anywhere for the 68. So off it came.

What did we get? The 115, then the 15A/C, the 111, the 38, the rehash of the 966 and then 96, the 71E and the extension of the X4 to Minworth and then Centro having to reroute fairly useless services like the 167, 168 and 604 into even more useless services just so that places retained 'a bus'.

The irony of course is that all this saved barely any resource from the 68 workings, it was all done to accommodate the NX estate. The resource barely any lower, but the end result spectacularly less commercial and naturally all utterly counterproductive.

Look at how many of those services NX have since removed? Blaming low passenger numbers? Of course they were low! The frequencies and connections offered weren't a shadow of the 68. Cue more chopping and changing of the tenders to pick more abandoned roads up, making them even less efficient and viable.

So once NX had finally disposed of these apologies for the 68, what next? The only service remaining from it all, the 96, was rerouted to target the only sections of the tendered services that actually picked anybody up, as well as also targeting them in Mere Green and also another tendered service in Kingstanding, the 89. These tenders were marginal as it was. What happens to a marginal tender when you remove a few hundred concessions a week from it? You don't need my answer....

So, having thrown the three tendered services into basket case territory and therefore destabilising an independent operator that was already struggling with lower numbers due to COVID, what's their next trick? Goodbye 96!! As I said, you really couldn't make it up.

The Fort, Holly Lane, Penns Lane, swathes of Boldmere and the adjoining parts of Erdington, Minworth and Castle Vale..... some of these areas that previously had a 15 minute frequency service that was actually useful now either have a shadow of it, or in the case of the first two, no NX service atall!!

People in Castle Vale and Minworth can't even get to the Fort. What a joke.

How the commercial folk at NX have managed to make such a complete bugger's muddle out of a viable virtual monopoly absolutely beggars belief. And even what they have left, which isn't much, doesn't do what people need or want it to.

And now we are expected to congratulate them for 'rescuing' the useless set of garbage that has somehow managed to survive on the other side of it now that they have managed to force another operator off the road. As Nan would say, what a f***** liberty!!!

The alarm bells should be ringing for NX. With Diamond settled nicely on the 96 and soon the 94 alongside a lot of existing east Birmingham services and NX's network beginning to look like a heavily retreating fossil, their golden goose, the Travelcard, may start to look very unappealing to folk when you consider the links that are no longer available to them and the constant reliability issues.

I'm all for that.

What planet are you living on? I'd be very interested to hear what companies those were you were involved in to see where this exception operating practise existed? Did any make a profit as having all these spare buses and drivers available isn't exactly cheap? I really hope you aren't referring to any other West Midlands based operator as historically all those favoured companies by you round here have found themselves in trouble with the traffic commissioner at some point previousl - NOBODY IS PERFECT!

Also, you are the one who needs to read posts carefully. I gave the very real example of the situation in Birmingham Road and M5 J1 every West Brom home game with the 74. The levels of traffic are not predictable at all yet you seem to be arguing that that is still NXWM's fault as they know there will be extra traffic.

What you don't seem to understand is that extra traffic could cause a 15 minute delay one week but the next week it could be 2 hours (like traffic conditions that I have personally experienced this season). According to your business logic, NXWM should have 5 or 6 vehicles on stand by ready to go just in case there is a long delay - after all 'they knew in advance'. It's a nonsensical argument.

If your interpretation of the rules in the current operating environment of driver shortages etc was actually put in practise, every large company in Britain would be receiving a summons to appear before them. It is thankful that the traffic commissioner is showing some common sense during current times with this. A few missed trips are annoying for passengers I get this, but this won't be a long term problem once the driver shortage is sorted. Like I inferred previously, NXWM has operated according to the industry standards prior to the current operating situation so you need to take a step back and think about the ridiculous demands you are making.

Be realistic!

I'm not going to waste lots of oxygen on you because you don't take the information in.

Quite simply. Yes the TC is willing to accept the current driver shortage as mitigation for some none operation where it can be proved that was the cause, like it wasn't here.

On all other fronts, including planning for foreseeable disruption, the rules still apply. If when asked what you did to mitigate the disruption your answer is 'nothing', then action will follow. It's not a case of having 1, 5 or even 10 spare vehicles. Where you run into problems with the TC is where you made no effort. Any small effort made will normally avoid serious action but if you do nothing, the TC will be unsympathetic. NX repeatedly do nothing and throw their arms up and see what comes down.

The TC doesn't expect perfect so consequently I have never had anything to fear.

But nevertheless I know somebody at a large operator who right now is constructing his response to a BOM exercise that is applicable under the current circumstances, so your claim that it's open season out there with the TC at the moment is nonsense.

I'm not going to attempt to educate you any further because you're incapable of a sensible discussion and will defend anything so it's pointless engagement.

Sorry Andy you aren't living in reality with your claims about NXWM. It's clearly been explained what the issue was/is and that it will be a issue industry wide for at least the next 6 months until the visa issue is sorted, amongst other things.

You say you have the experience in the industry, well you must have either been incredibly lucky in your company to not have any issues or alternatively maybe worked for a small company with nowhere near the problems. Who knows!

Football traffic is notoriously challenging to operate in, particularly later kick offs that coincide with the evening rush hour. I'm been to Villa Park a few times but go to West Brom every home match. The issues are the same there on the Birmingham Road with the 74. Some days the island round J1 on the M5 has been gridlocked causing 2 hour delays. Then the next game the traffic flows freely (like last week against Nottingham Forest). No company can realistically plan to run extra buses on the off chance there is a significant delay- it's not economically viable.

You never have anything positive to say about NXWM yet seem to think certain other companies round here would operate routes better. No they wouldn't, they would face the same issues as NXWM do and it would be the same.

Same goes for the clowns arguing for London style contracts - let's see how the non-bus using citizens of the West Midlands like having to massively subsidise routes through taxes because Norman from Caste Vale wants an every 10 minute service to operate at 10pm.

Just accept that industry wide the situation is very difficult at the moment - over the last 10 years, NXWM have not consistently missed out services like the situation you experienced. It was unfortunate yes but, at the moment, you've got to accept that the situation is far from perfect.

Stagecoach, First, Arriva are suffering just as much as any other company. You need to take things with a ounce of salt here and understand the reality of operation in this environment - you say you have the experience so I don't understand why you can't comprehend this?

Don't patronise me.

You just can't have a word said against your pet PLC who in your eyes can do no wrong.

Tony has already pointed out himself that all buses were operating so the driver shortages is completely irrelevant here, please read the replies again yourself

I have worked for small independents, medium sized operators and large PLC's. The level of performance described here, on a consistent basis as it has been here which I can back up with incident numbers, would not be acceptable to any of those organisations.

Neither is it acceptable to the traffic commissioner since it isn't occurring due to a driver shortage. It is occurring due to lack of foresight and contingency for a foreseeable event. That is a punishable offence if proven regularly for the holder of an operators licence. I have attended several public inquiries and conducted responses to BOM's and am well aware of acceptable windows of tolerance and what is mitigation and what isn't.

Throwing your arms up in the air when buses get stuck when you knew they would in advance is not mitigation for failing to present significant portions of punctual service operation on services where you reduced the frequencies in the first place.

With regards to your claim that we should be grateful that NX deem to offer the late services in the first place, the TC has a solution for operators who find themselves unable to comply with their registration for an unviable commercial service. It's called deregistration.

Incidentally your claim that the 65s were running ok is not correct, the 2306 from Court Lane to city was 24 minutes late starting that journey due to delays on Lichfield Road. That bus had not been on the 7, so it wasn't just the interworking causing problems

I was referring to the journeys from city, 2 of which passed me while I waited. One at 2230 and another just before 11pm.

Off topic but finishing a match after 10pm at the whim of Amazon prime does not help travelling fans of either team.

With respect this has absolutely nothing to do with NX's failure to operate its schedules bus services which are there to transport people to and from work, leisure and other socially required activities regardless of a football match.

As has been stated many times all the major bus companies are missing journies because of driver shortages, every driver is offered as much overtime as they want as long as it is within their legal hours, and as am encouragement the overtime rate of pay has been increased by 25%, but if you cannot cover existing work you are not going to find drivers for additional work on

TfWM have live bus tracking so why do NXWM need one that would show exactly the same information as to he source of the information would be exactly the same. Which tracker were you claiming was saying live information about a bus being 5 minutes away, so I can report it to get bug sorted?

This one.

Is somebody going to have a look at the situation on Sunday coming after the Leicester game?

Bus Times suggests the 22:35 X14 was on time last night. Departing from Priory Queensway. Might of been of use to you.

Not really when I'm waiting at Waterworks Road on the A5127.

No it is nothing to be proud of, but where do you find the drivers from to put extra buses out to cover at the moment?

I'm not sure what tracker you are referring to that says a bus is due in 5 minutes, but isn't there.

Well I'm glad we can agree that it's not acceptable.

In terms of finding drivers, well you start by asking them.

I think if you're honest Tony which I understand you may not be able to be here, the depot has done nothing to avoid this in the first place. I know this because the last two match days the exact same thing happened. Meanwhile, the 65s were running like clockwork but I live in Pype Hayes so that's no use to me.

My question is can I expect the same on Sunday after the Villa match? The last Sunday game was the subject of my last complaint when again the 67 saw no bus for 90 minutes.

The depot knows they will get stuck on the 7, they can see them on the control system and pre empt it and adjust other services if necessary so the disruption is shared. Can they not arrange a contingency this time please?

In terms of the tracker, I've learned from the customer service staff this morning that the tracker app is defunct and no longer supported, even though you can download it from the App Store.

So according to him, NXWM doesn't offer a working tracker for its customers and we are nearly in 2022.

Seriously??

[nationwide]

Don't take this the wrong way, but have you tried running a bus service where there's a major nationwide staff shortage, a pandemic going on, two major events at the same time on the route, and tried to keep the buses to time.

Tony and the team at NX should be commended for trying to at least keep passengers moving, even if its a bit late.

If you think you can do better, then you can find the forms to fill in to obtain a O Licence here - https://www.gov.uk/apply-vehicle-operator-licence

Yes, been there, done that thanks.

I believe I've covered all the excuses you've offered up in my previous post. The TC wouldn't accept any of them except on a temporary basis the driver shortage, and Tony has helpfully confirmed that wasn't the cause so it's irrelevant.

The issue here is incompetence and lack of foresight, nothing of what you offer up.

You're just someone else who thinks it's ok to leave people stood at the side of the road for an hour and a half on a trunk route in sub zero temperatures in the second city with no contingency or information.

People like you are a throwback.

Perhaps you can offer advise on how buses can avoid stationary traffic caused by a football match at Villa Park. Both buses were out there. The 2230 journey did operate, bus 4813 left city 44 minutes late

I think you'll find Villa Park has been there quite a long time, and they pre publish their fixtures.

Does Perry Barr not have the sense to suspend inter working on match nights when they can easily predict what is going to happen and put a bus into the system so that multiple services aren't left without a bus?

And since you raise it, what about the extra passengers who are travelling to and from the match. So instead of extra capacity we end up with none!

The traffic commissioner is only interested in a defence for lack of timely operation around issues that can't be foreseen. I think we can safely accept that this does not fall into that category.

Tony you seem to be excusing this shambolic performance and appear to be proud of a service which ran 44 minutes late leaving a gap in service on trunk route of nearly an hour and a half! Not that I accept that anyway, as I walked in the end and no bus passed me.

Is there anything about your employer you won't defend? Some of us just stick our hands up when we've dropped the ball.

As I said previously and can prove with my recent complaints. This is far from a one off. Why does the tracker constantly tell you these buses are due 'in 5 minutes' when they clearly aren't operating or anywhere near me. Is that ok in 2021 too?

Staggering.