Letter in the post today from HS2.
Saltley Viaduct will be closed from Summer 2022 to Autumn 2023 for HS2 works. That's not going to be fun! All diversions will be published at a later date.
Quote from: Gareth on October 14, 2021, 06:50:12 PM
Letter in the post today from HS2.
Saltley Viaduct will be closed from Summer 2022 to Autumn 2023 for HS2 works. That's not going to be fun! All diversions will be published at a later date.
At a guess...
94/95 via Aston Church Road and the A47 (as it has been done in the past).
8A/C via coming back down Adderley Road and then via Duddeston Mill Road and Devon Street (as they are all single deckers anyway).
14 via Washwood Heath Road, Aston Church Road and the A47.
There's a 14' 0" bridge (Duddeston Mill Road) and a 13' 0" (Landor Street) on the other two closest roads that go through to the other side, so unless the buses are made single decker then they can't use them.
Quote from: ellspurs on October 14, 2021, 07:07:55 PM
At a guess...
94/95 via Aston Church Road and the A47 (as it has been done in the past).
8A/C via coming back down Adderley Road and then via Duddeston Mill Road and Devon Street (as they are all single deckers anyway).
14 via Washwood Heath Road, Aston Church Road and the A47.
There's a 14' 0" bridge (Duddeston Mill Road) and a 13' 0" (Landor Street) on the other two closest roads that go through to the other side, so unless the buses are made single decker then they can't use them.
There was talk a couple of years ago that the 14 would become single decker during the Viaduct works. But at that time BC still operated B7s. So I'm not sure of works are delayed or if that was just purely speculation. Probably the latter.
Quote from: Gareth on October 14, 2021, 07:15:59 PM
There was talk a couple of years ago that the 14 would become single decker during the Viaduct works. But at that time BC still operated B7s. So I'm not sure of works are delayed or if that was just purely speculation. Probably the latter.
There are pleanty of E200 MMC at AG that could be swapped for E400.
However E200 MMC on the 14 wouldn't be very good I think.
Is it possible to deepen some of those low bridges as well?
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 07:18:58 PM
There are pleanty of E200 MMC at AG that could be swapped for E400.
However E200 MMC on the 14 wouldn't be very good I think.
Is it possible to deepen some of those low bridges as well?
Are AG even allowed to have the E400's BC have?
Quote from: Gareth on October 14, 2021, 06:50:12 PM
Letter in the post today from HS2.
Saltley Viaduct will be closed from Summer 2022 to Autumn 2023 for HS2 works. That's not going to be fun! All diversions will be published at a later date.
Part of me imagines that, with a closure that long, they'd put some full on service changes in place. Maybe move a double deck 14 away from Duddeston completely and route it via Garrison Lane & Adderley Park Station, and some sort of short local single deck service serving Duddeston and Saltley
Quote from: Kevin on October 14, 2021, 08:25:13 PM
Part of me imagines that, with a closure that long, they'd put some full on service changes in place. Maybe move a double deck 14 away from Duddeston completely and route it via Garrison Lane & Adderley Park Station, and some sort of short local single deck service serving Duddeston and Saltley
I do think AG's E200MMC would be better suited for 14 to be honest
Quote from: bbs on October 14, 2021, 08:24:53 PM
Are AG even allowed to have the E400's BC have?
Probably, as new types have been introduced at other garages before. They'd be able to go on most routes, 4/4A, 11, 72/73.
Just wouldn't be allowed on the 5 probably.
The problem with the E200 MMC on the 14 would probably be peak time capacity.
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 08:30:41 PM
Probably, as new types have been introduced at other garages before. They'd be able to go on most routes, 4/4A, 11, 72/73.
Just wouldn't be allowed on the 5 probably.
The problem with the E200 MMC on the 14 would probably be peak time capacity.
I mean if AG loses the 22** then 32 might be affected since it has e200mmc but 4/4A will go fully E400 Then if that happens
Topic split from 'Diversions' thread to save clogging that one up with speculation.
There will be lots of Works equipment on the spine road with heavy delays possible.
Early talk is of going under the duddeston low bridge & services becoming single deck but these talks & plans could change.
Quote from: Steveminor on October 14, 2021, 09:09:07 PM
There will be lots of Works equipment on the spine road with heavy delays possible.
Early talk is of going under the duddeston low bridge & services becoming single deck but these talks & plans could change.
All 3 routes to single deck for a whole year?
That would be dreadful I would think. The deckers carry full loads at peak times.
Back to the old days of crowded scanias on the 55 to.
What about sending the 94/95 along Aston Church Road and then Nechells Park Road (66 route) instead maybe and into City from there, to skip out the A47?
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 09:11:28 PM
All 3 routes to single deck for a whole year?
That would be dreadful I would think. The deckers carry full loads at peak times.
Back to the old days of crowded scanias on the 55 to.
What about sending them along Aston Church Road and then Nechells Park Road (66 route) instead maybe and into Town from there?
or maybe using landor st and then adderley road
Quote from: bbs on October 14, 2021, 09:26:44 PM
or maybe using landor st and then adderley road
There is a low bridge on Landor Street.
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 09:28:18 PM
There is a low bridge on Landor Street.
Its best if they got AG and BC to switch up. Maybe the 14 has E200MMC of AG and E400 for AG. Once viaduct is reopen, E200MMC back to AG and E400 to BC
Quote from: bbs on October 14, 2021, 09:31:52 PM
Its best if they got AG and BC to switch up. Maybe the 14 has E200MMC of AG and E400 for AG. Once viaduct is reopen, E200MMC back to AG and E400 to BC
I was talking about the 94/95.
Though 14's are likewise packed in the peaks at present. So changes would be needed.
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 09:34:56 PM
I was talking about the 94/95.
Though 14's are likewise packed in the peaks at present. So changes would be needed.
Woudnt the E400MMC Work?
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 09:11:28 PM
All 3 routes to single deck for a whole year?
That would be dreadful I would think. The deckers carry full loads at peak times.
Back to the old days of crowded scanias on the 55 to.
What about sending the 94/95 along Aston Church Road and then Nechells Park Road (66 route) instead maybe and into City from there, to skip out the A47?
Whilst using Aston Church Road isn't too bad on a very short term basis as has been done before. It misses out a large chunk of route and busy bus stops. Potentially 5 busy bus stops worth of passengers all using the stop before Aston Church Road. It will be awful long term.
And using the 66 route into town, missing out A47 completely? Bonkers!
Quote from: Gareth on October 14, 2021, 09:40:34 PM
Whilst using Aston Church Road isn't too bad on a very short term basis as has been done before. It misses out a large chunk of route and busy bus stops. Potentially 5 busy bus stops worth of passengers all using the stop before Aston Church Road. It will be awful long term.
1. You could put on some sort of single decker shuttle/alternative service between Goodrick Way and Fox & Goose via Saltley Gate which connects with the main 94/95 service.
2. You go down Nechells Park Road (66 rte), Goodrick Way and into town along Nechells Parkway which misses out the spine road
@Gareth
Quote from: 2206 on October 14, 2021, 09:41:38 PM
You could put on some sort of shuttle/alternative service between Saltley Gate and Fox & Goose.
You go down Goodrick Way and into town along Nechells Parkway @Gareth
Saltley doesn't need a shuttle service. It needs a direct route to and from city centre. Sadly it looks like single deckers at a higher frequency may be the option. However when double deckers are running 4/5/6 at a time within 3 minutes, if that continues, it'll just be nose to tail buses along the whole route with an hour gap inbetween.
Quote from: Gareth on October 14, 2021, 09:45:17 PM
Saltley doesn't need a shuttle service. It needs a direct route to and from city centre. Sadly it looks like single deckers at a higher frequency may be the option. However when double deckers are running 4/5/6 at a time within 3 minutes, if that continues, it'll just be nose to tail buses along the whole route with an hour gap inbetween.
It'd still have the 14 to Town.
Just means that the 94/95 passengers keep the double decks if they use Aston Church Rd. And the purpose of any sort of shuttle/alternative service should be to connect with the 94/95 during the closure.
Single decks at a higher frequency also means they need more depot space and more drivers to.
6822 was full this evening to, single deck definitley would've probably left far more people behind.
Quote from: Gareth on October 14, 2021, 09:45:17 PM
Saltley doesn't need a shuttle service. It needs a direct route to and from city centre. Sadly it looks like single deckers at a higher frequency may be the option. However when double deckers are running 4/5/6 at a time within 3 minutes, if that continues, it'll just be nose to tail buses along the whole route with an hour gap inbetween.
Already, 8A/8C and 4/4A get full buses because of the single deckers so dont expect to see any difference in those routes if they become Single decker
Quote from: bbs on October 14, 2021, 08:35:36 PM
I mean if AG loses the 22** then 32 might be affected since it has e200mmc but 4/4A will go fully E400 Then if that happens
The 32 uses a Scania most days
If the 55/94 is still combined at Perry Barr, I can see them needing more single deckers as there would be nowhere near enough for those to be Single Deck as well, 52 can be Decker operated. Could see the majority of WB's Omnilinks move for a load of Deckers from PB, considering Deckers can do the majority of WB routes apart from the 3/3A, 22 and both sets of 54's.
But as well mostly by that time Coventry should be Electric so most of the B7's can be used surplus as well as they will need a new home soon.
Quote from: Jack on October 15, 2021, 02:33:06 AM
considering Deckers can do the majority of WB routes apart from the 3/3A, 22 and both sets of 54's.
Deckers can be and have been used on the 3/3A in the past.
Quote from: bbs on October 14, 2021, 10:10:49 PM
58 does
It sees a mix. Basically any AG single deck can go on it.
Quote from: Pat on October 15, 2021, 09:29:42 AM
It sees a mix. Basically any AG single deck can go on it.
AG just use all their non-branded single decks as one pool, so either type will turn up on any route
Sigle deckers on the 14 can be very awkward on Alum Rock Rd due to the extra length.
Quote from: 4679 on October 15, 2021, 04:44:15 AM
Deckers can be and have been used on the 3/3A in the past.
That was until the signs on the bridge at Sandwell and Dudley was changed...
Quote from: Jack on October 15, 2021, 02:00:21 PM
That was until the signs on the bridge at Sandwell and Dudley was changed...
I think their B7TL ALX400s might be fine still, but don't quote me on that.
Quote from: DJ on October 15, 2021, 02:12:57 PM
I think their B7TL ALX400s might be fine still, but don't quote me on that.
Hardly, they are 14'2" exactly the same as an E400MMC
The bridge is signed at 13'
It's going to be an absolute pain.
I'm guessing the 94 and 95 will use Aston Church Rd.
A 94 for example heading towards city will have to have to continue to Saltley Gate and loop back up to Aston Church Rd, with passengers waiting at the from city stops putting their hands out and Visa versa on the from city journeys. It will be so confusing.
And as for single decks on the 14, apart from the extra length being a pain trying to negotiate Alum Rock Rd, theres also capacity issues. Double decks are regularly full let alone single decks.
All this for a slightly quicker rail journey 😤
Quote from: B.C Driver on October 15, 2021, 05:32:59 PM
And as for single decks on the 14, apart from the extra length being a pain trying to negotiate Alum Rock Rd, theres also capacity issues. Double decks are regularly full let alone single decks.
Mercs used to be able to do it fine along there and the parking was just as bad then as it is now. If anything the 14 is a nightmare at the moment, especially with about 3/4 buses leaving the City at a time all rammed full, if anything just as bad as the 55/94.
Quote from: B.C Driver on October 15, 2021, 05:32:59 PM
It's going to be an absolute pain.
I'm guessing the 94 and 95 will use Aston Church Rd.
A 94 for example heading towards city will have to have to continue to Saltley Gate and loop back up to Aston Church Rd, with passengers waiting at the from city stops putting their hands out and Visa versa on the from city journeys. It will be so confusing.
And as for single decks on the 14, apart from the extra length being a pain trying to negotiate Alum Rock Rd, theres also capacity issues. Double decks are regularly full let alone single decks.
All this for a slightly quicker rail journey 😤
I'm not totally familiar with the 14/94/95 routes, but it would seem to me logical for these services to divert via the A47 and Aston Church Road. From there, the 94 and 95 would just continue along Washwood Heath Road as normal route, with the 14 going back down Washwood Heath Road to join Alum Rock Road.
It would of course mean that those two sets of stops on Washwood Heath Road currently used by the 94/95 can still get a service to Birmingham city centre, just on the opposite side of the road to now.
Granted, whichever way it is done, some additional running time is going to be needed, but I don't see any real need to change any of those routes to single deck operation.
Quote from: Tony on October 15, 2021, 02:45:14 PM
Hardly, they are 14'2" exactly the same as an E400MMC
The bridge is signed at 13'
Ah right, I thought there was a chance with them being low height ones but I guess not.
Quote from: DJ on October 15, 2021, 07:29:54 PM
Ah right, I thought there was a chance with them being low height ones but I guess not.
They're not low height ones, they are standard height.
Quote from: Stu on October 15, 2021, 07:03:20 PM
I'm not totally familiar with the 14/94/95 routes, but it would seem to me logical for these services to divert via the A47 and Aston Church Road. From there, the 94 and 95 would just continue along Washwood Heath Road as normal route, with the 14 going back down Washwood Heath Road to join Alum Rock Road.
It would of course mean that those two sets of stops on Washwood Heath Road currently used by the 94/95 can still get a service to Birmingham city centre, just on the opposite side of the road to now.
Granted, whichever way it is done, some additional running time is going to be needed, but I don't see any real need to change any of those routes to single deck operation.
When Saltley Viaduct was closed recently we had to use Aston Church Rd from city and instead of turning left onto Washwood Heath Rd had to turn right and loop down to Saltley Gate to serve the 3 missed stops.
The ideal solution would be if Bham city council could erect a temporary viaduct similar to the old Camp Hill flyover, but I cant see this happening. Failing that improve the traffic light sequence at Aston Church Rd / Washwood Heath Rd.
Quote from: B.C Driver on October 15, 2021, 07:42:37 PM
When Saltley Viaduct was closed recently we had to use Aston Church Rd from city and instead of turning left onto Washwood Heath Rd had to turn right and loop down to Saltley Gate to serve the 3 missed stops.
Now if that can be done for both directions, that's almost the perfect solution. I haven't known them do that before. Last couple of times I've been on a 55/94 using Aston Church Road(unplanned diversion), drivers haven't even mentioned a diversion and shot straight up Heartlands Parkway without warning!
Quote from: B.C Driver on October 15, 2021, 01:40:12 PM
Single deckers on the 14 can be very awkward on Alum Rock Rd due to the extra length.
I mean The E200MMC's are fairly long
Quote from: bbs on October 15, 2021, 09:07:08 PM
I mean The E200MMC's are fairly long
All of the full size singles are 'fairly long' 🙄
I don't remember the Mercs struggling along there when they was on the 14 and 26 and the parking was just as bad back then!
Quote from: Tony on October 15, 2021, 07:39:51 PM
They're not low height ones, they are standard height.
I thought the bodywork on the B7TLs was a lower height than the Tridents? They definitely look shorter.
Quote from: DJ on October 15, 2021, 10:47:10 PM
I thought the bodywork on the B7TLs was a lower height than the Tridents? They definitely look shorter.
Little bit of an optical illusion, the windscreens are higher and they have shorter destination glass than the trident bodied ALX.
Quote from: DJ on October 15, 2021, 10:47:10 PM
I thought the bodywork on the B7TLs was a lower height than the Tridents? They definitely look shorter.
@DJ They are a lower height as the 42**'s at NX are 14ft 2 whilst a Trident is 14ft 6. But they aren't the low height varient.