I've just looked at the 12 timetable and got to ask is it misprinted? Journeys out of City are fine but there are many journeys missing toward city such as there being regular hourly gaps between 12's or 12A's.
9, 18, 35, 74, 82 and 87 all reduced to every 12 minutes.
Quote from: The Fox 4846 on November 15, 2020, 10:23:30 AM
I've just looked at the 12 timetable and got to ask is it misprinted? Journeys out of City are fine but there are many journeys missing toward city such as there being regular hourly gaps between 12's or 12A's.
Yes, the Mon-Fri towards City timetable is not in chronological sequence, but all scheduled journeys are still shown if you look towards the end (on page 2).
When was this first flagged?
I saw a post on Facebook that was already 7 hours old.
Saw a lady this morning who normally catches the Wolverhampton 60 from Bloxwich at 718am, but that journey has disappeared.
She wasn't aware until I told her, so she was at least 15 mins late for work!
I caught a 529 on Thursday back to Walsall.
Didn't see a notice then.
Quote from: Westy on November 16, 2020, 10:46:24 AM
When was this first flagged?
I saw a post on Facebook that was already 7 hours old.
I caught a 529 on Thursday back to Walsall.
Didn't see a notice then.
Found a post of Facebook mentioning it from Wednesday 11th November
https://www.facebook.com/nxwestmidlands/photos/a.373247266053647/3793013580743648/?type=3&__xts__[0]
4800 has a notice, as I saw one on that bus.
Nx says slight timetable changes.
82/87 Dudley rd corridor normal school day has 25 running boards now down to 19 running boards.
Hows this suppose to help with social distancing.
12/13 westbrom operating just 10 boards now .
Westbrom is Basically operating a summer timetable now.
The only time i have left people behind is during reduced timetable.
Would I be correct in thinking no changes to Walsall depot services?
Quote from: Westy on November 17, 2020, 12:12:25 PM
Would I be correct in thinking no changes to Walsall depot services?
No changes to Walsall Garage Services. Also some Wolverhampton Drivers are on loan to Walsall, Coventry and Perry Barr.
Quote from: 2900 on November 17, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
Nx says slight timetable changes.
82/87 Dudley rd corridor normal school day has 25 running boards now down to 19 running boards.
Hows this suppose to help with social distancing.
12/13 westbrom operating just 10 boards now .
Westbrom is Basically operating a summer timetable now.
The only time i have left people behind is during reduced timetable.
Reducing the 87/2 is stupid there busy as it is and now there even more busy and the drivers are the ones who gets it in the neck for it not the people that do the timetables ,
Quote from: Jack6101 on November 17, 2020, 07:49:44 PM
Reducing the 87/2 is stupid there busy as it is and now there even more busy and the drivers are the ones who gets it in the neck for it not the people that do the timetables ,
Are you out riding the route now then to know this?
Quote from: PB2938 on November 17, 2020, 06:55:37 PM
No changes to Walsall Garage Services. Also some Wolverhampton Drivers are on loan to Walsall, Coventry and Perry Barr.
I can understand loaning to Walsall & Perry Barr, but surely it's a fair trek to Coventry from Wolverhampton?
Wonder what the Coventry public make of the Black Country accent?
Are there drivers self isolating at those depots & Wolves drivers are subbing or is there another reason?
(Personally, I do know to one Walsall driver self isolating long term last I heard, & Tony should know who I mean, without mentioning names!)
Quote from: Tony on November 17, 2020, 08:54:27 PM
Are you out riding the route now then to know this?
As a matter of fact yes I do from work and is very busy and no social distancing what so ever and it's the only bus I can get home direct
Quote from: Westy on November 17, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
I can understand loaning to Walsall & Perry Barr, but surely it's a fair trek to Coventry from Wolverhampton?
Wonder what the Coventry public make of the Black Country accent?
Are there drivers self isolating at those depots & Wolves drivers are subbing or is there another reason?
(Personally, I do know to one Walsall driver self isolating long term last I heard, & Tony should know who I mean, without mentioning names!)
Some WA drivers are off sick while Wolverhampton drivers are spare
Quote from: Jack6101 on November 17, 2020, 10:14:38 PM
As a matter of fact yes I do from work and is very busy and no social distancing what so ever and it's the only bus I can get home direct
So you catch a couple of the many journeys
Regarding 82/87 if everyone followed the government guidelines essential travel only apart from peak hours I'm sure the bus wouldn't be rammed.
Quote from: PB2938 on November 18, 2020, 07:53:57 AM
Regarding 82/87 if everyone followed the government guidelines essential travel only apart from peak hours I'm sure the bus wouldn't be rammed.
I personally have not seen one rammed, and our commercial team are monitoring figures on all routes to adjust service levels. Odd journies will overload, but because it is a lot of non-esential journies the times can vary each day making providing duplicates harder
NO journeys should be overloaded dft have been clear we should have a maximum capacity of 50% seated capacity to comply with social distancing
Quote from: Steveminor on November 18, 2020, 09:15:50 PM
NO journeys should be overloaded dft have been clear we should have a maximum capacity of 50% seated capacity to comply with social distancing
And of course you can stop people turning up at a particular time, and then marching on the bus when it is loading and giving the driver abuse if he tries to stop yhem
Quote from: Tony on November 18, 2020, 09:53:29 PM
And of course you can stop people turning up at a particular time, and then marching on the bus when it is loading and giving the driver abuse if he tries to stop yhem
I'm currently down South driving in Bristol and our maximum capacity is 35. If anymore, we're told not to move until they've got off the bus. If they do not remove themselves, then police assistance is requested. I'm not sure if INIT has passenger numbers integrated within the ticket machine where you count them off, but this makes it very easy to know how many are onboard.
It has always been the drivers responsibility to ensure his vehicle does not exceed its plates capacity. In essence all that has happened is that capacity has been reduced. Yes at the terminus stop I.e city centre West Bromwich etc it can be tricky as everyone will just rush on: however along the route when it is obvious a bus is at its capacity the driver should not be stopping to allow more people to get on & if a passenger needs to get off then the agreed protocol was for the bus to stop short or long of the stop. I have seen very little evidence of this happening.
Other operators can do it I dont see why nx dont seem to be able to given the amount of monitoring of drivers cctv & etm data that they have
Quote from: Steveminor on November 18, 2020, 10:21:07 PM
It has always been the drivers responsibility to ensure his vehicle does not exceed its plates capacity. In essence all that has happened is that capacity has been reduced. Yes at the terminus stop I.e city centre West Bromwich etc it can be tricky as everyone will just rush on: however along the route when it is obvious a bus is at its capacity the driver should not be stopping to allow more people to get on & if a passenger needs to get off then the agreed protocol was for the bus to stop short or long of the stop. I have seen very little evidence of this happening.
Other operators can do it I dont see why nx dont seem to be able to given the amount of monitoring of drivers cctv & etm data that they have
I think part of the issue is NX's insistence that the driver is simply attending the steering wheel, and is always in the wrong for having a voice. I've noticed that drivers are generally more respected amongst passengers down here. The driver actually has authority here whereas they're abused in the West Midlands. Of course it's not perfect but it's significantly noticeable. An example was, I was the first bus after 10pm before this lockdown in the City Centre, so immediately after the bars/pubs were shut. There were at least 200 passengers waiting to board my bus. As soon as I hit my 35 capacity, I told them I was full and could take no more, and they listened and stopped boarding. In Birmingham, I know that they'd keep piling in, because what's the driver gonna do?
Another example is, the particular vehicles I'm driving have a maximum of 6 standing. This is rigorously enforced by both operators and drivers in this city, and the passengers actually listen.
Quote from: MW on November 18, 2020, 11:10:40 PM
I think part of the issue is NX's insistence that the driver is simply attending the steering wheel, and is always in the wrong for having a voice. I've noticed that drivers are generally more respected amongst passengers down here. The driver actually has authority here whereas they're abused in the West Midlands. Of course it's not perfect but it's significantly noticeable. An example was, I was the first bus after 10pm before this lockdown in the City Centre, so immediately after the bars/pubs were shut. There were at least 200 passengers waiting to board my bus. As soon as I hit my 35 capacity, I told them I was full and could take no more, and they listened and stopped boarding. In Birmingham, I know that they'd keep piling in, because what's the driver gonna do?
Another example is, the particular vehicles I'm driving have a maximum of 6 standing. This is rigorously enforced by both operators and drivers in this city, and the passengers actually listen.
Hit the nail on the head there. We're just looked as scum by some of the people we carry. Seems to be even more so now with this virus. We're told we won't get penalised if we carry more than the limit, so I really don't care. I want to go home without stress and getting abuse and that is how it's done. People can see the bus is full but they still get on so it's their choice
Quote from: Tony on November 18, 2020, 09:53:29 PM
And of course you can stop people turning up at a particular time, and then marching on the bus when it is loading and giving the driver abuse if he tries to stop yhem
You condoning overloaded buses? If the buses are frequent then there should be no issue with people being told to wait for the next bus
Sigh- and then we wonder why we are in a second lockdown
Quote from: John on November 19, 2020, 08:00:49 AM
Hit the nail on the head there. We're just looked as scum by some of the people we carry. Seems to be even more so now with this virus. We're told we won't get penalised if we carry more than the limit, so I really don't care. I want to go home without stress and getting abuse and that is how it's done. People can see the bus is full but they still get on so it's their choice
To be honest though, while NX drivers are essentially robots - and as you say don't have a voice, customers aren't going to respect them. I will say thankyou to nx drivers but I know full well I won't get a reply. At diamond most drivers will say thankyou or thanks mate or your welcome.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 19, 2020, 10:19:57 AM
To be honest though, while NX drivers are essentially robots - and as you say don't have a voice, customers aren't going to respect them. I will say thankyou to nx drivers but I know full well I won't get a reply. At diamond most drivers will say thankyou or thanks mate or your welcome.
In my general opinion, some of the buses uses I had been on (before 2nd lockdown) were overloaded and the drivers just kept loading up. Especially around peak times but as well during the day on the busy single deck routes. The drivers don't care and still let their buses fill up, even with the bus full destination on.
It depends with NX drivers, the majority of good and nice onesbut there's a few who don't give a toss, same with fare dodgers and smoking, I respect the drivers who actually challenge it, even though its not in their job title to challenge it, its their job to drive the bus, and ensure passengers are safe. But I agree the drivers in the West Midlands are treated like a piece of rubbish but then again they just let it go and don't do much about it.
Quote from: Jack on November 19, 2020, 10:37:39 AM
It depends with NX drivers, the majority of good and nice but there's a few who don't give a toss, same with fare dodgers and smoking, I respect the drivers who actually challenge it, even though its not in their job title to challenge it, its their job to drive the bus, and ensure passengers are safe. But I agree the drivers in the West Midlands are treated like a piece of rubbish but then again they just let it go and don't do much about it.
I agree about the drivers that challenge smoking and fare dodging.
Also I saw people fare dodging at Truro Bus Station on the First Kernow 47 a few years back, so definitely happens elsewhere as well i'd think.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 19, 2020, 10:14:24 AM
If the buses are frequent then there should be no issue with people being told to wait for the next bus
No excuse on a regular service I think.
Quote from: 2206 on November 19, 2020, 10:40:07 AM
I agree about the drivers that challenge smoking and fare dodging.
Also I saw people fare dodging at Truro Bus Station on the First Kernow 47 a few years back, so definitely happens elsewhere as well i'd think.
Definitely it can happen everywhere, but of course in the West Midlands most drivers do let it go, rewind back to 10-12 years ago I remember it was challenged a lot more than now.
Quote from: Jack on November 19, 2020, 10:37:39 AM
In my general opinion, some of the buses uses I had been on (before 2nd lockdown) were overloaded and the drivers just kept loading up. Especially around peak times but as well during the day on the busy single deck routes. The drivers don't care and still let their buses fill up, even with the bus full destination on.
It depends with NX drivers, the majority of good and nice but there's a few who don't give a toss, same with fare dodgers and smoking, I respect the drivers who actually challenge it, even though its not in their job title to challenge it, its their job to drive the bus, and ensure passengers are safe. But I agree the drivers in the West Midlands are treated like a piece of rubbish but then again they just let it go and don't do much about it.
I disagree in a sense with the comment the drivers in the West Midlands are treated like shit. Diamond operate the 4H (same route as NX), the 16(same route) , 50(same route). Yes I understand that diamond get less passengers, but still the people that do board the bus never are any trouble. It's almost like nx vehicles attract riff raff. And a price of a nbus really isn't much more anymore before that excuse is give.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 19, 2020, 10:14:24 AM
You condoning overloaded buses? If the buses are frequent then there should be no issue with people being told to wait for the next bus
Sigh- and then we wonder why we are in a second lockdown
And theres still rammed 997's during the peaks, full of school/college students, essential workers never socially distanced, never any duplicates.
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 19, 2020, 10:45:50 AM
I disagree in a sense with the comment the drivers in the West Midlands are treated like shit. Diamond operate the 4H (same route as NX), the 16(same route) , 50(same route). Yes I understand that diamond get less passengers, but still the people that do board the bus never are any trouble. It's almost like nx vehicles attract riff raff. And a price of a nbus really isn't much more anymore before that excuse is give.
I know they are treated like that but they just let it go in my opinion, I wouldn't stand for it. But yes I agree, same with Claribels on the 94, attract barely any trouble and run the exact same route.
Quote from: Jack on November 19, 2020, 10:46:52 AM
I wouldn't stand for it.
As you are an expert on all aspects of bus operations please advise us on how you would deal with these people then.
Whilst I do understand that drivers are put in a difficult position, I do think that they have a moral duty to enforce the restrictions, in the absence of a police officer, inspector etc. This is not just Covid restrictions, but revenue and other issues on the bus.
Quote from: Tony on November 19, 2020, 11:34:49 AM
As you are an expert on all aspects of bus operations please advise us on how you would deal with these people then.
Turn the bus off. If I'm a driver I'm in a box. At the end of the day drivers are paid regardless, doesn't matter whether their moving or not
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 19, 2020, 10:19:57 AM
To be honest though, while NX drivers are essentially robots - and as you say don't have a voice, customers aren't going to respect them. I will say thankyou to nx drivers but I know full well I won't get a reply. At diamond most drivers will say thankyou or thanks mate or your welcome.
Don't tar us with the same brush. If someone is pleasant to me then i will reply if its not thanks from fare dodging trash
Quote from: Trident 4194 on November 19, 2020, 12:38:07 PM
Turn the bus off. If I'm a driver I'm in a box. At the end of the day drivers are paid regardless, doesn't matter whether their moving or not
Oh yeah then we get assaulted and you'll be surprised what people will do to open that door
Quote from: Pat on November 19, 2020, 11:39:05 AM
Whilst I do understand that drivers are put in a difficult position, I do think that they have a moral duty to enforce the restrictions, in the absence of a police officer, inspector etc. This is not just Covid restrictions, but revenue and other issues on the bus.
You obviously think people listen to us then. Any thing you say to the scum and the first thing you hear is f*** off. We are not police and can not enforce restrictions
Quote from: Tony on November 19, 2020, 11:34:49 AM
As you are an expert on all aspects of bus operations please advise us on how you would deal with these people then.
I'd take a mugshot from the CCTV and stick it in the depots, canteens etc (usually repeat offenders it is) and make sure all the drivers don't stop for them or let them board and have assistance from an inspectors or police (if necessary).
To put it into perspective, I was once driving a Diamond bus in Solihull and was boarding outside the college. I think it was a Solo or a WF Streetlite, so not very big. Bus got rammed full with standing load because the NX 5 was running late.
Anyway, there were a bunch of chavs playing music out of one of them external/Bluetooth speakers. As they stepped on the platform, I said to all of them, "you better switch that off if you're boarding MY bus". Low and behold, they turned it off.
I think sometimes not having an assault screen helps. When there's a screen, people naturally would think what's he gonna do, he's behind the screen. But if you carry yourself with authority, 9 times out of 10 people do listen. You've got to talk to them in a way they wouldn't expect the average steering wheel attendant I guess. Maybe I'm asking for trouble and one day it'll catch up with me, but so far my strategy has worked.
Quote from: MW on November 19, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
To put it into perspective, I was once driving a Diamond bus in Solihull and was boarding outside the college. I think it was a Solo or a WF Streetlite, so not very big. Bus got rammed full with standing load because the NX 5 was running late.
Anyway, there were a bunch of chavs playing music out of one of them external/Bluetooth speakers. As they stepped on the platform, I said to all of them, "you better switch that off if you're boarding MY bus". Low and behold, they turned it off.
I think sometimes not having an assault screen helps. When there's a screen, people naturally would think what's he gonna do, he's behind the screen. But if you carry yourself with authority, 9 times out of 10 people do listen. You've got to talk to them in a way they wouldn't expect the average steering wheel attendant I guess. Maybe I'm asking for trouble and one day it'll catch up with me, but so far my strategy has worked.
I think at times, that's really what it is speak to/treat people how you would want to be treated yourself. I work in a customer service role myself, and always treat customers how I would want to be treated. The more positive you are towards customers, the better day you have, I always find.
Quote from: Pat on November 19, 2020, 02:08:41 PM
I think at times, that's really what it is speak to/treat people how you would want to be treated yourself. I work in a customer service role myself, and always treat customers how I would want to be treated. The more positive you are towards customers, the better day you have, I always find.
Spot on, but having been a driver and a revenue Inspector in the past some people think it is 'their right' to not pay, travel on the first bus if it is full, and however you speak to them, because you are saying what they don't want to hear you either get ignored or aggression towards you
Quote from: Tony on November 19, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Spot on, but having been a driver and a revenue Inspector in the past some people think it is 'their right' to not pay
And then they wonder why fares keep increasing!
As I said though there is NO excuse for a driver loading a bus beyond its capacity along route: you simply dont stop or stop short or long from the stop. This is a public health crisis.
Quote from: Steveminor on November 19, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
As I said though there is NO excuse for a driver loading a bus beyond its capacity along route: you simply dont stop or stop short or long from the stop. This is a public health crisis.
I was on a bus the other day where the driver loaded about 10 school kids. Bus was full and standing.
Quote from: Steveminor on November 19, 2020, 05:32:41 PM
As I said though there is NO excuse for a driver loading a bus beyond its capacity along route: you simply dont stop or stop short or long from the stop. This is a public health crisis.
Depends, if it's the last bus of the night and your past your reduced capacity you cant really drive past and leave passengers behind
Quote from: MW on November 19, 2020, 01:09:50 PM
To put it into perspective, I was once driving a Diamond bus in Solihull and was boarding outside the college. I think it was a Solo or a WF Streetlite, so not very big. Bus got rammed full with standing load because the NX 5 was running late.
Anyway, there were a bunch of chavs playing music out of one of them external/Bluetooth speakers. As they stepped on the platform, I said to all of them, "you better switch that off if you're boarding MY bus". Low and behold, they turned it off.
I think sometimes not having an assault screen helps. When there's a screen, people naturally would think what's he gonna do, he's behind the screen. But if you carry yourself with authority, 9 times out of 10 people do listen. You've got to talk to them in a way they wouldn't expect the average steering wheel attendant I guess. Maybe I'm asking for trouble and one day it'll catch up with me, but so far my strategy has worked.
Interesting to contrast that with your view about fare dodgers though....
Quote from: Kevin on November 20, 2020, 11:48:41 AM
Interesting to contrast that with your view about fare dodgers though....
You'll have to remind me of that my friend
Quote from: PB2938 on November 18, 2020, 07:53:57 AM
Regarding 82/87 if everyone followed the government guidelines essential travel only apart from peak hours I'm sure the bus wouldn't be rammed.
It's partly that but also if the buses don't run to time even if there's no trafdic on thecrll road then no doubt people will try to board the first bus that comes even if it's only going par route.
Quote from: Lukeee on November 19, 2020, 10:36:34 PM
Depends, if it's the last bus of the night and your past your reduced capacity you cant really drive past and leave passengers behind
Should only be key workers on the bus at that point surely?
If you have to go out for a drink(under the tiered restrictions!), then only somewhere within walking distance!
Quote from: Westy on November 22, 2020, 04:09:58 PM
Should only be key workers on the bus at that point surely?
If you have to go out for a drink(under the tiered restrictions!), then only somewhere within walking distance!
There's other reasons, too. You could be visiting a partner or someone in your support bubble, or you could be coming home from visiting a parent if you're younger.
Minor changes to 14, 55 and 94 from 29th November due to delays in Birmingham city centre
The timetables just show and then at frequent intervals until which is completely useless
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/minor-service-changes-from-sunday-29th-november?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn