To encompass all the various bits in threads about how social distancing is going to work on buses for the foreseeable future.
When I was in Oxford on Tuesday, I saw a Stagecoach Oxford service 700 bus running to the hospitals. On the display at the front, it was showing "SORRY BUS FULL/DUE TO SOCIAL DISTANCING".
I'm guessing the driver would have to set this manually when they feel the bus has reached its capacity.
From the NXWM timetables that went up at the end of last week, it seems that they are going to have extra buses at certain points along routes to throw into action if a set of buses get busy.
What extra resources are the drivers going to be given when they get confronted by people that don't wish to comply with the measures?
Quote from: ellspurs on May 27, 2020, 03:16:30 PM
To encompass all the various bits in threads about how social distancing is going to work on buses for the foreseeable future.
When I was in Oxford on Tuesday, I saw a Stagecoach Oxford service 700 bus running to the hospitals. On the display at the front, it was showing "SORRY BUS FULL/DUE TO SOCIAL DISTANCING".
I'm guessing the driver would have to set this manually when they feel the bus has reached its capacity.
From the NXWM timetables that went up at the end of last week, it seems that they are going to have extra buses at certain points along routes to throw into action if a set of buses get busy.
What extra resources are the drivers going to be given when they get confronted by people that don't wish to comply with the measures?
Maybe there will be police officers/inspectors what will be by the driver and deal with these types of people.
I believe they are using passenger counting apparatus - which of course can't take into account members of a household being able to sit together.
What's going to be interesting is what will happen on routes like the 57/10A/C where they are sometimes operated by 7×× e200s and it's the last journey (around 2/3ish) and there are more passengers than the "advisory capacity" waiting for it at Stourbridge.
How would the driver have to work that as not everyone can walk from the main road bus stop or has a car. And people are still entitled to go shopping/visit the bank or post office.
It'll be interested to see how diamond would work it on the hourly mellor routes.
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 27, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
What's going to be interesting is what will happen on routes like the 57/10A/C where they are sometimes operated by 7×× e200s and it's the last journey (around 2/3ish) and there are more passengers than the "advisory capacity" waiting for it at Stourbridge.
The announcement I read from Stagecoach said they will still exceed this capacity, in regards to vulnerable passengers. In the case of last journey, they would fall into the vulnerable category I would think. So would have to be an exception I think.
Don't think it would be good leaving passengers behind on the last journey.
"Try to ensure where possible that the advisory capacity is not exceeded, however there may be some situations where full social distancing can not be maintained, particularly where vulnerable passengers could be put at risk by being left at a bus stop" - is the wording.
Quote from: the trainbasher on May 27, 2020, 04:10:41 PM
What's going to be interesting is what will happen on routes like the 57/10A/C where they are sometimes operated by 7×× e200s and it's the last journey (around 2/3ish) and there are more passengers than the "advisory capacity" waiting for it at Stourbridge.
How would the driver have to work that as not everyone can walk from the main road bus stop or has a car. And people are still entitled to go shopping/visit the bank or post office.
It'll be interested to see how diamond would work it on the hourly mellor routes.
no fear pensnetts 10/A/C Breaking any rules or leaving anybody behind
Quote from: ellspurs on May 27, 2020, 03:16:30 PM
...
When I was in Oxford on Tuesday, I saw a Stagecoach Oxford service 700 bus running to the hospitals. On the display at the front, it was showing "SORRY BUS FULL/DUE TO SOCIAL DISTANCING".
I'm guessing the driver would have to set this manually when they feel the bus has reached its capacity.
...
Oxfordshire drivers have been told to set the displays to this if the bus is full and radio to depot if there are any passengers left behind, although the drivers on my S4 commute back home to Banbury have told me not to worry about a potential 90 minute wait for the next one as they know I'll be boarding
social distancing won't work i.e. I usually catch the 23/24 outside the great of BCU on Harborne road heading into town some days a few people others thirty waiting, this means if everyone stands two meters apart you could be at the next stop in line waiting for a for the bus at the original stop.
I have walked from Edgbaston into the city centre and on a few times and it can take twenty to thirty minutes, but would not contemplate walking in the winter or the rain.
Quote from: Ginger66 on May 28, 2020, 10:41:52 AM
social distancing won't work i.e. I usually catch the 23/24 outside the great of BCU on Harborne road heading into town some days a few people others thirty waiting, this means if everyone stands two meters apart you could be at the next stop in line waiting for a for the bus at the original stop.
I have walked from Edgbaston into the city centre and on a few times and it can take twenty to thirty minutes, but would not contemplate walking in the winter or the rain.
There are 30 people waiting for it at that one stop at present, or there would be in normal times?
Buses seem to be fairly quiet at present from what I've seen and frequencies have recently been enhanced. So think it would mostly work for the time being - i.e. the next few weeks.
Where it won't work, is say if they go back to how busy some of them were before around peak hours I think.
Quote from: Ginger66 on May 28, 2020, 10:41:52 AM
social distancing won't work i.e. I usually catch the 23/24 outside the great of BCU on Harborne road heading into town some days a few people others thirty waiting, this means if everyone stands two meters apart you could be at the next stop in line waiting for a for the bus at the original stop.
Which is why people need to take note of the guidelines and not use public transport unless necessary.
People who only want to travel 1 or 2 stops may very well put the bus to its reduced capacity and mean someone needing to travel further cannot board.
I have walked from Edgbaston into the city centre and on a few times and it can take twenty to thirty minutes, but would not contemplate walking in the winter or the rain.
I completely agree with you regarding the guidelines and the current situation.
Things will have to change from the 15th June though. The government is opening up non-essential retail and our Prime Minister has gone on record as encouraging people to go out and spend to help kick-start the economy. You cannot have a situation where Shopping Centres/Shopping areas in large City Centres are opening their doors, yet people are still discouraged from using public transport to get there. The idea would be absurd.
My teenage sister and all of her friends are counting down the days for the opportunity to come to Birmingham to visit Primark as the store has no online presence. They haven't been put off going out shopping & many young adults will feel the same. And with the amount of shopping these people buy, i can't see it all fitting on a pushbike.
Whilst social distancing rules remain in place it's going to be a very long wait to get into shops like primark & probably a very long wait to get on a bus there or home.
In reality I cannot see this being a flick of the switch & it all goes back to normal
Quote from: Steveminor on May 28, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Whilst social distancing rules remain in place it's going to be a very long wait to get into shops like primark & probably a very long wait to get on a bus there or home.
In reality I cannot see this being a flick of the switch & it all goes back to normal
From using buses throughout the Covid-19 pandemic due to having to undertake essential journeys on the whole I have found passengers usually exercising social distancing rules without the need of operators and government having to specify set rules whether the public can continue to exercise this long term is another matter.
I agree, but people will be prepared to queue to get into these shops.
Nobody expects a flick of a switch. I certainly don't. I'm simply talking about the attitude of government/transport providers regarding the message that they send out.
The word/words 'essential' or 'essential journies' simply cannot be used in any sensible conversation when non essential retail opens up.
I'm sure when we get to that stage the appropriate language will be used.
Quote from: Steveminor on May 28, 2020, 06:17:17 PM
I'm sure when we get to that stage the appropriate language will be used.
Mae'r Gymraeg yn iaith ddefnyddiol i weithwyr First Group, a ydych chi wedi meddwl rhoi cynnig ar
@Steveminor ?
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on May 28, 2020, 08:52:32 PM
Mae'r Gymraeg yn iaith ddefnyddiol i weithwyr First Group, a ydych chi wedi meddwl rhoi cynnig ar @Steveminor ?
You soon learn Welsh when you worked for First & had to deal with militant employees at Brewers otherwise you wouldn't know what they were saying behind your back at SWT!!!!!!!
Given the shops which are currently closed can reopen from the 15th of June I'd expect most operators who haven't as yet announced an increase in service provision to announce as such. This will include all operators of buses and trains in Wales......
Quote from: markcf83 on May 28, 2020, 11:20:26 PM
Given the shops which are currently closed can reopen from the 15th of June I'd expect most operators who haven't as yet announced an increase in service provision to announce as such. This will include all operators of buses and trains in Wales......
No doubt within The West Midlands County the relevant operators will change thier minds on the service provision from 1st June yet again after previously changing numerous times beforehand completely confusing passengers now the DfT have published full guidance on the revised CBSSG whilst service provision in Wales is a matter for Cludiant i Gymru.
Are the operators of school routes given an expectation of how many children are expected to catch their services? With some of the guidance in place, would they have the capacity to offer enough buses to cater for them?
I know the expectations for next week should be lower given only certain age groups are starting to go back, but if they're planning for when all the children are back at school, would they be able to cope?
Over 3 months before that needs sorting
No problem. Do you get an idea of expected loadings for school services or is it just based off of running the service for a few weeks to see what the loadings are like?
Pre-lockdown, I saw a service 891 at Chelmsley Wood Pine Square, it had a Platinum double decker and a single decker following it (presumably heading towards Yew Tree from Coleshill School given it was the afternoon).
Quote from: ellspurs on May 29, 2020, 03:32:48 PM
No problem. Do you get an idea of expected loadings for school services or is it just based off of running the service for a few weeks to see what the loadings are like?
Pre-lockdown, I saw a service 891 at Chelmsley Wood Pine Square, it had a Platinum double decker and a single decker following it (presumably heading towards Yew Tree from Coleshill School given it was the afternoon).
I don't know many 5 and 6 year olds who catch the bus to school
Quote from: Tony on May 29, 2020, 03:36:31 PM
I don't know many 5 and 6 year olds who catch the bus to school
Alright. Sorry for the question.
Quote from: Tony on May 29, 2020, 03:36:31 PM
I don't know many 5 and 6 year olds who catch the bus to school
No, but there are plenty of Year 10 & 12 students who do and will be returning on the 15th of June.
Quote from: Pat on May 29, 2020, 05:53:30 PM
No, but there are plenty of Year 10 & 12 students who do and will be returning on the 15th of June.
They are not asking them to go back full time, just have some face to face meetings with their teachers
Quote from: Tony on May 29, 2020, 05:56:11 PM
They are not asking them to go back full time, just have some face to face meetings with their teachers
They aren't going back full time, but they are doing near enough a full school day once a week or so. I'd imagine there will be a fair few pupils who rely on school services, wether or not Covid is about.
You're talking about maybe 15-20% max students with buses at 25% capacity that's more than enough space at present & that's if they all go in on.the same day
Quote from: Steveminor on May 29, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
You're talking about maybe 15-20% max students with buses at 25% capacity that's more than enough space at present & that's if they all go in on.the same day
Much less than that. Only 2 out of 7 years, and only 1 out of 5 days each.
That comes out at about 3% of senior school journies
Quote from: Tony on May 29, 2020, 06:08:25 PM
Much less than that. Only 2 out of 7 years, and only 1 out of 5 days each.
That comes out at about 3% of senior school journies
So will school buses still be running then? NX would still be contracted to run the service, as the school is open and there would be a requirement for it?
Quote from: Pat on May 29, 2020, 06:14:55 PM
So will school buses still be running then? NX would still be contracted to run the service, as the school is open and there would be a requirement for it?
Very few school buses are contracted
Quote from: Tony on May 29, 2020, 06:16:28 PM
Very few school buses are contracted
Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my question. Will school services, contracted or commercial, be operating as of June?
Quote from: Pat on May 29, 2020, 06:23:40 PM
So those contracted routes will obviously run, but what about the commercial school services?
That depends on whether the contractor wants to pay for them.
Most of the commercial school services are just part of main services now, for instance a duplicate 76 or one journey doing a slight variation to a journey on the 1 route.
To be honest I cannot see any school buses running until September for what would be an average of 4 pupils
Quote from: Tony on May 29, 2020, 06:28:02 PM
That depends on whether the contractor wants to pay for them.
Most of the commercial school services are just part of main services now, for instance a duplicate 76 or one journey doing a slight variation to a journey on the 1 route.
To be honest I cannot see any school buses running until September for what would be an average of 4 pupils
It makes sense not to run them, given the high costs involved. But wouldn't the contracts for contracted services be already paid, as I presume they are paid annually or at the start of the contract in which case they have to run as the school is open?
Quote from: Pat on May 29, 2020, 07:24:18 PM
It makes sense not to run them, given the high costs involved. But wouldn't the contracts for contracted services be already paid, as I presume they are paid annually or at the start of the contract in which case they have to run as the school is open?
In terms of payment made it depends. When I used to get involved in School Bus Invoicing some were paid termly and some monthly in arrears. If necessary a Credit Note could be sent out if the bus didn't actually operate.
Quote from: Pat on May 29, 2020, 07:24:18 PM
It makes sense not to run them, given the high costs involved.
Wouldn't that mean they'll all be getting on other services instead? (My mistake there).
Are any of those NX run contracted?
Quote from: 2206 on May 29, 2020, 08:31:37 PM
Are any of those NX run contracted?
No, because as I said if a school bus carried 80 children only about 4 would be attending each day
Quote from: 2206 on May 29, 2020, 08:31:37 PM
Wouldn't that mean they'll all be getting on other services instead? (My mistake there).
Are any of those NX run contracted?
In this brave new world of more working from home more parents could potentially take them in their cars or they could walk or cycle slowing traffic and buses down even more than it was already!
Quote from: JoNi on May 30, 2020, 07:04:00 AM
or they could walk or cycle slowing traffic and buses down even more than it was already!
They could, but then again they'd probably be doing that anyway if they were going to.
Some of them probably travel to far for that in some cases as well. One of the X22's took a full bus load of school kids from King Edwards Five Ways in Bartley Green all the way to New Street Station everytime I caught it. And presumably they then make an onward journey from there.
It was an early afternoon journey at about 1PM.
This morning, the 0423 Stagecoach 767 service from Nuneaton to Tamworth had three buses allocated to it. I passed them coming up Tuttle Hill as I was heading down and off towards Ely. They had no passengers on them there, so I'd make a guess that they were for the night workers coming out of Birch Coppice towards Tamworth.
Wolverhampton Council have enforced (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/wolverhampton-city-centre-bus-stop-changes-from-monday-8th-june) bus stop changes from next week in their City Centre to aid with social distancing.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 04, 2020, 04:45:09 PM
Wolverhampton Council have enforced (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/wolverhampton-city-centre-bus-stop-changes-from-monday-8th-june) bus stop changes from next week in their City Centre to aid with social distancing.
Am I missing something here? How does rerouting bus services along the same stretch of road more or less help with social distancing?
Grant Shapps Transport Sec is now saying face coverings will be mandatory on public transport from 15th June.
How will the be enforced on buses ? Surely drivers can't be made to enforce this ?
Quote from: TT90 on June 04, 2020, 05:35:32 PM
Grant Shapps Transport Sec is now saying face coverings will be mandatory on public transport from 15th June.
How will the be enforced on buses ? Surely drivers can't be made to enforce this ?
If drivers couldn't enforce it, then who would? I think it would be a matter of being refused travel if you weren't wearing a face mask.
Quote from: Pat on June 04, 2020, 05:14:54 PM
Am I missing something here? How does rerouting bus services along the same stretch of road more or less help with social distancing?
I found a newspaper article: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/wolverhampton-ring-road-speed-limit-18338016
Road closures and pavement widening and such other things.
Quote from: Pat on June 04, 2020, 05:37:39 PM
If drivers couldn't enforce it, then who would? I think it would be a matter of being refused travel if you weren't wearing a face mask.
I can't see how enforcing the use of face masks would be easy, at all to be honest.
But in regards to making it mandatory, can everyone wear a face mask? Would it cause any problems for people with respiratory conditions, etc - as that's what some of the comments I've read argue? See the comment bellow.
"Deborah Manneh Karen Lambeth no , they are damaging to people with pre existing respiratory conditions and making everything " mandatory " is just nonsense" -
https://www.facebook.com/nxwestmidlands/photos/a.373247266053647/3309134649131546/?type=3&comment_id=3309396592438685&reply_comment_id=3309433889101622
Quote from: ellspurs on June 04, 2020, 05:38:38 PM
I found a newspaper article: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/wolverhampton-ring-road-speed-limit-18338016
Road closures and pavement widening and such other things.
I suppose that makes sense in order to minimise disruption to bus services. However, I wonder if having one way pavements would work?
Quote from: Pat on June 04, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
I suppose that makes sense in order to minimise disruption to bus services. However, I wonder if having one way pavements would work?
In Cambridge on Wednesday, I drove over a bridge just north of the city centre. There were signs on the bridge telling people to walk on the left pavement (basically make sure the river is to the left of you when crossing). Was it being followed? Nope.
Quote from: Pat on June 04, 2020, 05:37:39 PM
If drivers couldn't enforce it, then who would? I think it would be a matter of being refused travel if you weren't wearing a face mask.
So the Driver can get abused more, swore at and threatened etc..?
Quote from: 2206 on June 04, 2020, 05:39:56 PM
I can't see how enforcing the use of face masks would be easy at all to be honest
But in regards to making it mandatory, can everyone wear a face mask? Would it cause any problems for people with respiratory conditions, etc - as that's what some of the comments I've read say/argue? See the comment bellow.
"Deborah Manneh Karen Lambeth no , they are damaging to people with pre existing respiratory conditions and making everything " mandatory " is just nonsense"
https://www.facebook.com/nxwestmidlands/photos/a.373247266053647/3309134649131546/?type=3&comment_id=3309396592438685&reply_comment_id=3309433889101622
Saying that I hadn't noticed the above comment that its actually being made mandatory from the 15th June? Wander how it will work and who will enforce it if someone really didn't want to wear one - I think it will make the drivers jobs more difficult.
Quote from: Pat on June 04, 2020, 05:37:39 PM
If drivers couldn't enforce it, then who would? I think it would be a matter of being refused travel if you weren't wearing a face mask.
Its putting more pressure on drivers in an already tough time. And I suspect that there will be no extra inspectors or Police to help us enforce this
I see it as we are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. If we do enforce both the social distancing capacity limits (which will be impossible after the 15th June when more people will likely be travelling) and now the wearing of masks, its asking for confrontation off people who won't wear a mask or want to get on a full bus. Increasing the risk of assult or spitting towards drivers. And if a driver chooses to not enforce the rules then they will more than likely get abuse of people saying there are too many people on the bus and people not wearing masks. Its a no win situation
Sorry to say this but I for one won't be enforcing either of these if I choose to go back to work this month, I'm just paid to drive the bus and go some wiithout fear of assult and the easiest way to do this is to say nothing while in the cab
Face-coverings are completely useless, in my opinion, and completely unneccessary.
If this is to become mandatory, then I'll stop travelling by bus. I can't afford to keep buying these facemasks as most of them aren't reusable.
There was no obligation for them to be worn by passengers during the 'worst' of this epidemic. And there is still no convincing evidence that healthy people need to wear them.
Same goes for the 'social-distancing' measures. I am quite frankly getting sick of all this rubbish, which is again in my opinion severely disrupting businesses and peoples' everyday well-being in general.
The thing to consider is that the more 'we' (as a people in general) accept and go along with this, the less likely things will return to how they were before, the 'new normal' is not going to be a very pleasant future.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me and will find my opinion unpopular, but I've kept quiet for too long biting my lip, and I've had enough I guess of keeping quiet. Maybe, just maybe, there are other people who do agree, but have also kept quiet for 'fear' of being labelled an 'outcast'.
Quote from: Stu on June 04, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
I can't afford to keep buying these facemasks as most of them aren't reusable.
You can use a scarf, it doesn't have to be a mask. Lots of people have for sale on places like Etsy or eBay, reusable, washable fabric coverings and masks. For as little as a couple of pounds if you didn't want to make your own.
Quote from: Stu on June 04, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Face-coverings are completely useless, in my opinion, and completely unneccessary.
If this is to become mandatory, then I'll stop travelling by bus. I can't afford to keep buying these facemasks as most of them aren't reusable.
There was no obligation for them to be worn by passengers during the 'worst' of this epidemic. And there is still no convincing evidence that healthy people need to wear them.
Same goes for the 'social-distancing' measures. I am quite frankly getting sick of all this rubbish, which is again in my opinion severely disrupting businesses and peoples' everyday well-being in general.
The thing to consider is that the more 'we' (as a people in general) accept and go along with this, the less likely things will return to how they were before, the 'new normal' is not going to be a very pleasant future.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me and will find my opinion unpopular, but I've kept quiet for too long biting my lip, and I've had enough I guess of keeping quiet. Maybe, just maybe, there are other people who do agree, but have also kept quiet for 'fear' of being labelled an 'outcast'.
Well said Stu. I think that if we are to return to normal, there needs to be steps taken that are bold and progressive. The introduction of wearing masks on public transport has come far too late, and I don't see any benefit at this stage. If anything, it is portraying to the public that it is dangerous to use public transport. This of course is going to spread anxiety amongst those who rely on public transport and put people off, right at a time where we are starting to see some form of return to normality in terms of getting people to work. I think that social distancing is now starting to cause more problems than solutions - especially when it comes to using public transport.
Quote from: John on June 04, 2020, 06:17:25 PM
Its putting more pressure on drivers in an already tough time. And I suspect that there will be no extra inspectors or Police to help us enforce this
I see it as we are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. If we do enforce both the social distancing capacity limits (which will be impossible after the 15th June when more people will likely be travelling) and now the wearing of masks, its asking for confrontation off people who won't wear a mask or want to get on a full bus. Increasing the risk of assult or spitting towards drivers. And if a driver chooses to not enforce the rules then they will more than likely get abuse of people saying there are too many people on the bus and people not wearing masks. Its a no win situation
Sorry to say this but I for one won't be enforcing either of these if I choose to go back to work this month, I'm just paid to drive the bus and go some wiithout fear of assult and the easiest way to do this is to say nothing while in the cab
100% agree with this, I'm a driver too and will not be enforcing this. I can't see anybody paying for there to be an extra inspector or police to enforce it.
"BABIES, disabled people and anyone with breathing difficulties won't have to wear a face mask on public transport, it was confirmed tonight.
Mr Shapps added: "There will be exceptions to these rules for very young children, disabled people and those with breathing difficulties."
The Department for Transport hasn't yet published a full list of exactly who will be able to get away without wearing one."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11785932/exemptions-face-masks-public-transport/
Will it be even possible for a driver to tell who does and doesn't need to wear a mask in that case and who does and doesn't have breathing difficulties?
Quote from: 2206 on June 04, 2020, 07:21:08 PM
"BABIES, disabled people and anyone with breathing difficulties won't have to wear a face mask on public transport, it was confirmed tonight.
The Department for Transport hasn't yet published a full list of exactly who will be able to get away without wearing one."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11785932/exemptions-face-masks-public-transport/
Will it be even possible for a driver to tell who does and doesn't need to wear a mask in that case and who does and doesn't have breathing difficulties.
This is one reason why the wearing of face masks doesn't make much difference in my opinion. You'll still have people potentially spreading the virus, albeit not as many.
Quote from: TT90 on June 04, 2020, 05:35:32 PM
Grant Shapps Transport Sec is now saying face coverings will be mandatory on public transport from 15th June.
How will the be enforced on buses ? Surely drivers can't be made to enforce this ?
From a safety point of view, making people wear face coverings and masks is giving carte blanche to the more unsavoury members of the public to abuse transport staff and passengers, with less chance of identifications being made.
Quote from: Stu on June 04, 2020, 06:50:42 PM
Face-coverings are completely useless, in my opinion, and completely unneccessary.
If this is to become mandatory, then I'll stop travelling by bus. I can't afford to keep buying these facemasks as most of them aren't reusable.
There was no obligation for them to be worn by passengers during the 'worst' of this epidemic. And there is still no convincing evidence that healthy people need to wear them.
Same goes for the 'social-distancing' measures. I am quite frankly getting sick of all this rubbish, which is again in my opinion severely disrupting businesses and peoples' everyday well-being in general.
The thing to consider is that the more 'we' (as a people in general) accept and go along with this, the less likely things will return to how they were before, the 'new normal' is not going to be a very pleasant future.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me and will find my opinion unpopular, but I've kept quiet for too long biting my lip, and I've had enough I guess of keeping quiet. Maybe, just maybe, there are other people who do agree, but have also kept quiet for 'fear' of being labelled an 'outcast'.
@Stu, fully agree with the points you've made.
Firstly I'll state these are my own personal opinions.
It's being written into psv regulations so it will be the drivers responsibility to police it just like any other psv regulation.
People with respiratory illnesses may have trouble with medical grade face masks but we're talking about face coverings even a scarf so that doesn't hold up.
The virus death rate etc. Yes I'm fed up with it & dont like all these measures & it does seem silly when you consider what a small percentage of the population has unfortunately died from covid 19. But how would you feel if you or a close loved one died from the disease, maybe then you would appreciate the measures that are being taken & even insist on more.
Quote from: Steveminor on June 04, 2020, 07:38:58 PM
It's being written into psv regulations so it will be the drivers responsibility to police it just like any other psv regulation.
People with respiratory illnesses may have trouble with medical grade face masks but we're talking about face coverings even a scarf so that doesn't hold up.
I'm sure other PSV regulations include things like smoking on buses, but I don't see many drivers willing to enforce this. ???
I've since read that the 'face covering' requirement itself looks quite vague, with people being encouraged to 'make their own'. So perhaps I could get away with getting on the bus while covering my nose and mouth with my hand? As that would be just as effective as putting a piece of flannel or towel across my face.
:D
I suppose you could just cover your nose & mouth as long as you did that for your entire journey, I think a much more comfortable method would be a neckercheif covers the nose & mouth light to wear & easy to pull down once you're off the bus or train
Quote from: Steveminor on June 04, 2020, 07:38:58 PM
Firstly I'll state these are my own personal opinions.
It's being written into psv regulations so it will be the drivers responsibility to police it just like any other psv regulation.
People with respiratory illnesses may have trouble with medical grade face masks but we're talking about face coverings even a scarf so that doesn't hold up.
The virus death rate etc. Yes I'm fed up with it & dont like all these measures & it does seem silly when you consider what a small percentage of the population has unfortunately died from covid 19. But how would you feel if you or a close loved one died from the disease, maybe then you would appreciate the measures that are being taken & even insist on more.
Whilst fully accepting the mandatory decision taken by H M GOVERNMENT today having to have used buses to & from QEHB throughout the pandemic for the last 10 weeks without face protection I cannot see how face protection enforced now will make the slightest difference in the spread of Covid-19 and is simply another burden to add to the hard working bus drivers from all operators
The difference is that with retail returning on 15th june there is an expectation that passenger numbers could increase & make social distancing more difficult. Whilst face coverings may not be 100% effective against the virus they will provide some protection & after all something is better than nothing.
I believe the government said early on in the pandemic, each measure alone may have little impact but all the measures combined may help reduce the spread of coronavirus.
I for one think this is a very good step forward & I know I'm not alone in my thoughts.
Didn't the transport focus survey show that the majority of passengers would feel more comfortable if face coverings became mandatory
Quote from: Steveminor on June 04, 2020, 08:04:56 PM
I suppose you could just cover your nose & mouth as long as you did that for your entire journey, I think a much more comfortable method would be a neckercheif covers the nose & mouth light to wear & easy to pull down once you're off the bus or train
I have brought a half balaclava which I can pull up to my nose when needed and pull down when not required. It's washable too.
Maybe this is mandatory once the 15th comes as the increase of passengers will make social distancing impossible and operators only have a certain amount of surplus vehicles due to the restricted services
Quote from: Steveminor on June 04, 2020, 09:42:39 PM
The difference is that with retail returning on 15th june there is an expectation that passenger numbers could increase & make social distancing more difficult. Whilst face coverings may not be 100% effective against the virus they will provide some protection & after all something is better than nothing.
I believe the government said early on in the pandemic, each measure alone may have little impact but all the measures combined may help reduce the spread of coronavirus.
I for one think this is a very good step forward & I know I'm not alone in my thoughts.
Didn't the transport focus survey show that the majority of passengers would feel more comfortable if face coverings became mandatory
I think the whole idea of face coverings is psychological in that people feel more at ease and safer if they're wearing a face covering, even though scientists say it doesn't always help to protect you.
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on June 04, 2020, 09:44:20 PM
Maybe this is mandatory once the 15th comes as the increase of passengers will make social distancing impossible and operators only have a certain amount of surplus vehicles due to the restricted services
So they won't be using the "Bus Full" display after this date, as I though this is the purpose of it.
Quote from: Pat on June 04, 2020, 10:30:47 PM
I think the whole idea of face coverings is psychological in that people feel more at ease and safer if they're wearing a face covering, even though scientists say it doesn't always help to protect you.
If its just physcological, I wouldn't think its the case with everyone however, otherwise more people would have been wearing them up until now anyway.
Quote from: 2206 on June 04, 2020, 11:01:52 PM
Clearly not the case with everyone however, otherwise everyone would be wearing them at present anyway.
Yes, not the case with everyone as you say. However, there still remains those who think that wearing a mask will protect them no matter what the scientists say. They've got into that mindset, and still continue to wear them despite scientists telling us that they aren't always effective.
Quote from: Steveminor on June 04, 2020, 09:42:39 PM
The difference is that with retail returning on 15th june there is an expectation that passenger numbers could increase & make social distancing more difficult. Whilst face coverings may not be 100% effective against the virus they will provide some protection & after all something is better than nothing.
I believe the government said early on in the pandemic, each measure alone may have little impact but all the measures combined may help reduce the spread of coronavirus.
I for one think this is a very good step forward & I know I'm not alone in my thoughts.
Didn't the transport focus survey show that the majority of passengers would feel more comfortable if face coverings became mandatory
I think that is utter rubbish having no immune system and most likely the most vulnerable person on the forum I have continued to use the bus network throughout the Covid lockdown to attend the QEHB and everyone has used common sense on the buses I have used the mandatory use of face masks will lead to complacency and ultimately death for me from Covid-19 following the use of face masks giving an I'll conceived confidence from those using the bus using masks.
I actually had to use a bus today for the first time in almost 12 weeks. About 10 people in total on the bus. The driver, myself and one other passenger wearing a face covering. I do however feel for drivers and potential abuse and rule breaking. Two people got on the bus without paying or out of date pass and proceeded to come upstairs. Laughing as they'd got away with it and that the driver wouldn't do anything about it as 'he's hardly gonna get out of his cab these days is he?'. That made me more angry than lack of masks on other passengers.
Quote from: Gareth on June 04, 2020, 11:24:22 PM
Two people got on the bus without paying or out of date pass and proceeded to come upstairs. Laughing as they'd got away with it and that the driver wouldn't do anything about it as 'he's hardly gonna get out of his cab these days is he?'.
That's disgusting I think.
I would report it, in the hope that their images can be found on the CCTV and they don't get away with it.
https://safertravel.info/advice-support/report-an-incident/
https://nationalexpressportal.icasework.com/servlet/servlets.app;jsessionid=ACCDA731D96BC36EA31A6098F1642529?type=Complaint&Login=false&st=EMBED&db=nRQPi90zCqO3syQeiKMi%2Bg%3D%3D&MenuContext=UKBUS&csrfhash=sOAfPr_B282c8P3lqaROa1vzkhloGjaq7YXMop7SvOAsI5hdb3uXTLZGegj-g7F58iVifQeE3-DNU7yFJ8adgNl02G7O7gJO02-oKfkJBh81FnqBVeFJDDXHXeavjuheBK0AehoWgfseD9sIbkD3KMp4DvVaADowUGjZanj2b64%3D.XP5Nr9bYbpzUPG4CtA5ONw%3D%3D%7E%21
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 04, 2020, 11:18:02 PM
I think that is utter rubbish having no immune system and most likely the most vulnerable person on the forum I have continued to use the bus network throughout the Covid lockdown to attend the QEHB and everyone has used common sense on the buses I have used the mandatory use of face masks will lead to complacency and ultimately death for me from Covid-19 following the use of face masks giving an I'll conceived confidence from those using the bus using masks.
Didn't Richard regularly go to QE too?
Quote from: Steveminor on June 04, 2020, 08:04:56 PM
I suppose you could just cover your nose & mouth as long as you did that for your entire journey, I think a much more comfortable method would be a neckercheif covers the nose & mouth light to wear & easy to pull down once you're off the bus or train
Really have you actually used a bus during the Covid lockdown everyone seems to have survived without the Dick Turpin look .
Seen a 11C yesterday on Stechford lane but it said Bus Full Due to social distancing
Quote from: SK68MEV on June 05, 2020, 01:32:06 AM
Seen a 11C yesterday on Stechford lane but it said Bus Full Due to social distancing
Theres a separate tread to log bus full sightings
I do like Sir Peter Hendy's face covering:
https://twitter.com/SirPeterHendy/status/1268594531236282368 (https://twitter.com/SirPeterHendy/status/1268594531236282368)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZrz_vUXYAM6Bhj?format=jpg&name=900x900 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZrz_vUXYAM6Bhj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: Ian Hardy on June 05, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
I do like Sir Peter Hendy's face covering:
https://twitter.com/SirPeterHendy/status/1268594531236282368 (https://twitter.com/SirPeterHendy/status/1268594531236282368)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZrz_vUXYAM6Bhj?format=jpg&name=900x900 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZrz_vUXYAM6Bhj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
They are excellent I have one the same to use from 15th June
Where did you buy it & how much
Quote from: Steveminor on June 05, 2020, 12:25:58 PM
Where did you buy it & how much
I have just tried to post the link from Amazon for you
@Steveminor but sadly its been removed for some reason.
Mandating the wearing of face coverings on public transport was a way of softening up attitudes as it has just been announced they will be mandated for all visitors and staff at hospitals.
This is another location where you can have someone on the entrance.
Shops would be a straight forward next step for "masking"!
Quote from: JoNi on June 05, 2020, 05:42:37 PM
Mandating the wearing of face coverings on public transport was a way of softening up attitudes as it has just been announced they will be mandated for all visitors and staff at hospitals.
This is another location where you can have someone on the entrance.
Shops would be a straight forward next step for "masking"!
The BMI are already petitioning the government to extend the masking to all internal areas where social distancing could be difficult, according to the Radio 2 news today.
Quote from: ellspurs on June 05, 2020, 07:02:31 PM
The BMI are already petitioning the government to extend the masking to all internal areas where social distancing could be difficult, according to the Radio 2 news today.
So theoretically I could sit outside Stourbridge Bus Station and not be required to wear a face covering, yet if I needed to use the lavatory there I could be required to wear one.
Quote from: the trainbasher on June 06, 2020, 07:59:42 PM
So theoretically I could sit outside Stourbridge Bus Station and not be required to wear a face covering, yet if I needed to use the lavatory there I could be required to wear one.
If that does ever become the rules, then yes. As one is inside and one is outside.
Tom
Government guidance has come through industry trade bodies. The guidance has been moving around a little. We have put out a statement on social media and our website, which tries to mirror the guidance provided.
In essence, the government is trying to create an expectation on people, and there is an acceptance that there will be people who cannot comply due to a variety of reasons
SimonI do not want to post on
@Simon Dunn own thread.
Mr Dunn is quite correct as always I personally did undertake the consultation with the DfT on face coverings.
The onus is on the public to accept the rules which are of benefit for all users of public transport.
The new guidelines are to keep us safe
Under the regulations due to my ongoing treatment for Tounge Cancer at QEHB I am exempted from the regulations .
However as I am not able to wear a mask as such throughout my treatment I have worn a hoodie with a snood built in to cover the mouth.
I do think that drivers from all operators will face challenging decisions from tomorrow
An idea must surely be to issue anyone "who has a justifiable reason for not wearing one on the grounds of health or a disability" with an exemption pass which can be shown to the drivers and police - With the pass being issued on supplying evidence of their condition.
Surely this will make it much easier and it would clearly highlight who is not wearing one because they are unable to and who is not wearing one because they simply don't want to. Hence making it a little easier to enforce.
And it would presumably make it easier for the passenger as well, as there would be no sort of discomfort where a driver is telling someone with an exception they should be wearing a mask.
Until something such as issuing a pass is done I think it would be very hard to enforce this at all to be honest.
Quote from: 2206 on June 14, 2020, 10:22:22 PM
An idea must surely be to issue anyone "who has a justifiable reason for not wearing one on the grounds of health or a disability" with an exemption pass which can be shown to the drivers and police - With the pass being issued on supplying evidence of their condition.
Surely this will make it much easier and it would clearly highlight who is not wearing one because they are unable to and who is not wearing one because they simply don't want to. Hence making it a little easier to enforce.
And it would presumably make it easier for the passenger as well, as there would be no sort of discomfort where a driver is telling someone with an exception they should be wearing a mask.
Until something such as issuing a pass is done I think it would be very hard to enforce this at all to be honest.
@2206 wake up & join the real world I have a letter from the CCG & a text on my phone to prove my exemption stop making stupid statements when you are not aware of the facts you belittling exemption holders such as myself
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 14, 2020, 11:57:37 PM
@2206 wake up & join the real world I have a letter from the CCG & a text on my phone to prove my exemption stop making stupid statements when you are not aware of the facts you belittling exemption holders such as myself
I disagree.
And I don't see the need to be rude about it either.
I was going of comments on the NX Bus facebook page. There seems to be an awful amount of unclarity on this.
So I will post these comments here:
"Hayley Selina Cox Question
Am I going to be refused entry on to buses if i dont have a face covering? Im a key worker and i use the bus everyday. I have not worn one up until now. But i dont want to get on the bus tp be told i need a face covering. I cant have my face covered as it triggers my anxiety."
"Me and my husband have official autism cards and landyards and I have my inhalers and spacer for my inhalers, can they be used as proof so we don't need to wear a face mask as a doctors letter cost £50 for my husband from his doctors and it will take 2 weeks to come and it will cost £50 for a letter from my doctors and we haven't got that sort of money"
"Lynda Marie I'd carry a card with pleasure (I'm asthmatic) but as none have been supplied yet 🤷♀️ I can prove it by showing the driver my medication which I carry with me all the time but its not very practical"
https://www.facebook.com/pg/nxwestmidlands/posts/?ref=page_internal
A pass/card would prove these peoples conditions to the driver and there wouldn't be any discomfort that way.
Not necessarily, if you have an anxiety problem for instance you would not have been told you don't need a face covering.
Your very pigheaded.
If you are a disabled person and are known to your GP or Hospital or H M Government you would be the holder of a concessionry bus pass to be shown to the driver of any operator such as First Worcester in England.
If you are not a concessionary disabled bus pass holder you should contact your local authority in England at the earliest opportunity if you are entitled as an disabled person by H M GOVERNMENT your Local Authority will ensure there is no charge for proof of exemption.
I trust this clarifrity's matters.
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 15, 2020, 12:37:54 AM
If you are a disabled person and are known to your GP or Hospital or H M Government you would be the holder of a concessionry bus pass to be shown to the driver of any operator such as First Worcester in England.
If you are not a concessionary disabled bus pass holder you should contact your local authority in England at the earliest opportunity if you are entitled as an disabled person by H M GOVERNMENT your Local Authority will ensure there is no charge for proof of exemption.
I trust this clarifrity's matters.
Well actually you don't show it to the driver on First you have to scan it. Unless I'm mistaken and Sl'some First' operations still work to the old legislation? I know certain companies still say to show it to the driver, but most big companies First being one of them have new ticket machines.
Quote from: Bus Man K2 on June 15, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Well actually you don't show it to the driver on First you have to scan it. Unless I'm mistaken and Sl'some First' operations still work to the old legislation? I know certain companies still say to show it to the driver, but most big companies First being one of them have new ticket machines.
You scan your pass to record the journey on First Worcester & you would show your pass to the driver if you are not wearing a face covering to show you are unfortunately disabled.
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 15, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
You scan your pass to record the journey on First Worcester & you would show your pass to the driver if you are not wearing a face covering to show you are unfortunately disabled.
Oh right is it mandortory to do that now? I thought if you have scanned your pss then you are allowed to travel.
I only ask that as when you scan your pass it doesn't throw up a pick on the screen for the driver so I auume what you are saying is probably right. that you have to scan your card then show the driver it?
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 15, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
You scan your pass to record the journey on First Worcester & you would show your pass to the driver if you are not wearing a face covering to show you are unfortunately disabled.
And why would you need to do that? Once you've scanned your pass the driver knows it belongs to someone with a disability
Quote from: Tony on June 15, 2020, 05:46:18 PM
And why would you need to do that? Once you've scanned your pass the driver knows it belongs to someone with a disability
That's what I'm getting at. I was simply asking the question to
@WyreForestShuttle.
Quote from: Tony on June 15, 2020, 05:46:18 PM
And why would you need to do that? Once you've scanned your pass the driver knows it belongs to someone with a disability
This is just a personal opinion having been both passenger & driver at the company on First Worcester I would open the pass as I scanned it if boarding without a face protection for the photograph on the pass to clearly indicate I was the disabled person to the driver however on your NXWM I would simply scan it.
Quote from: Tony on June 15, 2020, 05:46:18 PM
And why would you need to do that? Once you've scanned your pass the driver knows it belongs to someone with a disability
Just for the record although qualifing for both I hold a disabled blue badge to enable family to pick me up easily after operations at QEHB but have not applied for an ENCTS .
I confused as to why you do different things on different operators.
Encts passes show whether they are pensioner or disabled to the driver whatever ticketing equipment the operator is using.
Quote from: Steveminor on June 15, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
I confused as to why you do different things on different operators.
Encts passes show whether they are pensioner or disabled to the driver whatever ticketing equipment the operator is using.
As much as I respect you
@Steveminor you didn't learn your craft at Midland Red West you never forget pass validity when & where valid and an Inspectors spot check can you not remember the Senior Inspector we had at Kidderminster on Wyre Forest Shuttle I believe he was distantly related to a gentleman called Blake...........
Quote from: Steveminor on June 15, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
I confused as to why you do different things on different operators.
Encts passes show whether they are pensioner or disabled to the driver whatever ticketing equipment the operator is using.
Oh & when my late parents who had retired to Torquay used to stay with me thier ENCTS passes issued by Torbay Council were refused by
@Simon@Arriva Arriva drivers as they used to read invalid by the drivers they happily paid the fare you have lived a very sheltered life
@Steveminor in regard to ENCTS acceptance. Diamond Bus & NXWM read the cards with no problem but not
@Simon@Arriva .
Quote from: WyreForestShuttle on June 15, 2020, 06:05:05 PM
This is just a personal opinion having been both passenger & driver at the company on First Worcester I would open the pass as I scanned it if boarding without a face protection for the photograph on the pass to clearly indicate I was the disabled person to the driver however on your NXWM I would simply scan it.
With respect, you are one of the reasons certain services get slowed down if you're messing around waving passes at the driver. They're not interested. Just scan the thing and sit down. Those few seconds do actually save time, when you consider how many people actually board throughout the day. Reminds me of the many times certain passengers require assistance to sit the f*** down. The solution being accelerating to ease them into their seat...
The funniest one of course is when passengers look at the Ticketer machine and try to insert their pass into the ticket printer. Or perhaps when they assume the ticket printer is some sort of vending machine and try to insert coins!
The etms today are light years ahead of the old way3 kit operators used to use & give far more information regarding the passes.
Regarding Torbay encts passes we had a couple (before lockdown who were visiting from Torbay & their passes would not scan. It was traced to incorrect coding on Torbay councils part.
What you are doing on First buses I.e showing your photo before scanning "should" be the correct procedure on all buses, but we know that with the speed of todays society that does not really happen.
I remember the old mid red west inspectors not wishing them any disrespect but they had no real knowledge of deregulation as they were clueless as to why Pete's Travel were running the 440 just in front of their bus as "aren't you 5 mins early & hang on theres another 440 just behind we'll need to speak to someone about this" was their comment lol
Irrelevant posts split off and merged with existing 'Old Bus Routes' topic.
Quote from: Stu on June 16, 2020, 06:40:32 PM
Irrelevant posts split off and merged with existing 'Old Bus Routes' topic.
Thanks for that. I thought the forum was broken when I saw some posts from this thread end up on the "old bus routes" thread.