Given all the current noise regarding TfWM corporate branding and liveries does anyone have an understanding of the implications for NXWM vehicles? I assume the 2 tone red livery for buses is the existing NXWM livery. But does it mean that all other operators will have to paint their vehicles in that same livery? And will all vehicles including NXWM have to be branded with the new TfWM logo for buses? Has it actually been approved yet for buses, trams and trains or are they proposals at present?
The branding is now on trams and trains and did appear on bus stops in Birmingham City Centre during pride weekend. However, I can see any attempt to force operators to adopt a standard livery being resisted, as it would mean their brands being diluted.
Comprimise.
Paint the front of the bus only in whatever livery TFWM choose, leaving the rest of the bus in the operators own livery!
Quote from: Kevin_Brum12 on June 25, 2018, 10:28:44 PM
The branding is now on trams and trains and did appear on bus stops in Birmingham City Centre during pride weekend. However, I can see any attempt to force operators to adopt a standard livery being resisted, as it would mean their brands being diluted.
I think the idea of a standard livery to be a bit far fetched because Diamond, Arriva, Stagecoach etc operate outside the TfWM area as well as in it so they couldn't participate in a standard livery. It is more likely that buses will keep there existing liveries and identities with just the new TfWM "West Midlands" logo added as well
Quote from: RW on June 25, 2018, 07:05:22 PM
Given all the current noise regarding TfWM corporate branding and liveries does anyone have an understanding of the implications for NXWM vehicles? I assume the 2 tone red livery for buses is the existing NXWM livery. But does it mean that all other operators will have to paint their vehicles in that same livery? And will all vehicles including NXWM have to be branded with the new TfWM logo for buses? Has it actually been approved yet for buses, trams and trains or are they proposals at present?
Tony, do you have any knowledge of the practical implications of these proposals you are able to share?
Quote from: RW on June 26, 2018, 01:54:05 PM
Tony, do you have any knowledge of the practical implications of these proposals you are able to share?
I have some knowledge, but am unable to share
As far as trains go. I cannot see corporate branding applied to London north western chiltern mainline arriva trains cross country or virgin west coast, as all these operators run well beyond the wmca area which leaves only a few trains really (The old Centro branded lines) in the new corporate identity diluting the effect TfWM wish to achieve. However I feel there are exciting times ahead.
Quote from: Tony on June 26, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
I have some knowledge, but am unable to share
Ok, thanks Tony. No details but can you say whether actions have been formally agreed or is it all just speculation at this point in time?
No one is allowed to say anything at this point so no point asking!!!!
Quote from: RW on June 26, 2018, 08:21:18 PM
Ok, thanks Tony. No details but can you say whether actions have been formally agreed or is it all just speculation at this point in time?
Nothing can be said.
Quote from: Steveminor on June 26, 2018, 08:51:16 PM
No one is allowed to say anything at this point so no point asking!!!!
Good grief didn't realise bus, trams and train liveries and branding are covered by the Official Secrets Act. 😉 No doubt all will be revealed in due course.
Quote from: RW on June 27, 2018, 09:20:08 AM
Good grief didn't realise bus, trams and train liveries and branding are covered by the Official Secrets Act. 😉 No doubt all will be revealed in due course.
When any company in any industry changes and corporate logos or branding does it tell people before an official launch?
Why do people think the transport industry should be different?
Wait until a launch like you would if you were interested in any other company
Quote from: Tony on June 27, 2018, 09:33:40 AM
When any company in any industry changes and corporate logos or branding does it tell people before an official launch?
Why do people think the transport industry should be different?
Wait until a launch like you would if you were interested in any other company
I think the emoji was the clue Tony!
Quote from: RW on June 27, 2018, 03:25:46 PM
I think the emoji was the clue Tony!
Emojis won't appear on some platforms (i.e. Windows PC, etc..)
I tend to steer clear from using emojis on forums; I use the default ones instead ;)
Quote from: CL on June 27, 2018, 03:39:31 PM
Emojis won't appear on some platforms (i.e. Windows PC, etc..)
I tend to steer clear from using emojis on forums; I use the default ones instead ;)
Thanks for that CL. Learn something new every day. In any event I'm sure Tony didn't take my reference to the Official Secrets Act seriously.
Quote from: RW on June 27, 2018, 05:26:01 PM
Thanks for that CL. Learn something new every day. In any event I'm sure Tony didn't take my reference to the Official Secrets Act seriously.
No I didn't and it just happened to be yours I replied to. Some others do think that operators should tell them everything before it has happened.
Quote from: Tony on June 26, 2018, 05:28:03 PM
I have some knowledge, but am unable to share
I should think that if a standard livery is to be adopted the 'minor issue' of 150 odd blue or blue and white, 192 grey and well over 600 red and white buses may be causing one operator a little head scratching?
So we now have West Midlands Metro with a reliveried blue tram, all trams carrying the new logo and city centre stops rebranded and West Midlands Railway with all vehicles carrying the new name and logo and evidence of station rebranding at a few locations. That only leaves our bus operators to join the party!
Quote from: RW on July 18, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
So we now have West Midlands Metro with a reliveried blue tram, all trams carrying the new logo and city centre stops rebranded and West Midlands Railway with all vehicles carrying the new name and logo and evidence of station rebranding at a few locations. That only leaves our bus operators to join the party!
Watch out down Summer Lane Friday
Quote from: Tony on July 18, 2018, 03:14:07 PM
Watch out down Summer Lane Friday
Anything to do with an unidentified E400 I saw heading through Perry Barr 14:55 displaying "Birmingham Central Garage", was in a weird half crimson (driver's side) half red livery
Quote from: Kevin on July 18, 2018, 03:32:09 PM
Anything to do with an unidentified E400 I saw heading through Perry Barr 14:55 displaying "Birmingham Central Garage", was in a weird half crimson (driver's side) half red livery
4878 yes
Is the crimson livery changing?
Quote from: RW on July 18, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
So we now have West Midlands Metro with a reliveried blue tram, all trams carrying the new logo and city centre stops rebranded and West Midlands Railway with all vehicles carrying the new name and logo and evidence of station rebranding at a few locations. That only leaves our bus operators to join the party!
Give it a few weeks...
I'm confused. Could anyone explain why there is yet another new bus livery? NXWM has just got their Crimson livery and now there is a new bus livery from TfWM. I have been told that all this one brand will bring the TfWM's name under one umbrella - is this true? Would this mean bus companies would lose their current liveries and be repainted into this red TfWM livery with a company name, eg 'National Express West Midlands', 'Diamond', etc? I am unclear what is the purpose for the red livery.
TfWM wasting money, don't fix what's not broken?
What time is the launch at summer lane on friday please
Quote from: Tony on July 18, 2018, 03:14:07 PM
Watch out down Summer Lane Friday
Thanks Tony. Is it a general media launch event or an in-house NXWM occasion? Hopefully you'll be able to put up some photos later.
Whatever is going on - I'm seriously hoping it is in line with the new metro livery.....
But, half way through the rebrand they'll change their minds again!
Quote from: RW on July 18, 2018, 08:27:11 PM
Thanks Tony. Is it a general media launch event or an in-house NXWM occasion? Hopefully you'll be able to put up some photos later.
It's a TFWM led initative. Two operators will launch the livery initially
Quote from: metrocity on July 18, 2018, 08:37:06 PM
It's a TFWM led initative. Two operators will launch the livery initially
Mid-August before anyone thinks initially means after Friday!
There's a picture in the August issue of Buses magazine (which dropped through my letterbox yesterday, just to spoil some people's 'I know a secret and you don't until Friday' fun).
Quote from: Smethwickian on July 19, 2018, 07:52:21 AM
There's a picture in the August issue of Buses magazine (which dropped through my letterbox yesterday, just to spoil some people's 'I know a secret and you don't until Friday' fun).
There are a few photos circulating on Facebook of 4878 in the new livery
Quote from: Tony on July 18, 2018, 10:44:15 PM
Mid-August before anyone thinks initially means after Friday!
Tony does this mean NXWM will suspend their crimson repaint programme? Seems pretty pointless if a new TfWM inspired livery is to be introduced or am I missing something?
Quote from: RW on July 19, 2018, 08:43:40 AM
Tony does this mean NXWM will suspend their crimson repaint programme? Seems pretty pointless if a new TfWM inspired livery is to be introduced or am I missing something?
Quote from: P419 EJW on July 18, 2018, 07:18:38 PM
I'm confused. Could anyone explain why there is yet another new bus livery? NXWM has just got their Crimson livery and now there is a new bus livery from TfWM. I have been told that all this one brand will bring the TfWM's name under one umbrella - is this true? Would this mean bus companies would lose their current liveries and be repainted into this red TfWM livery with a company name, eg 'National Express West Midlands', 'Diamond', etc? I am unclear what is the purpose for the red livery.
How would this work where there are two operators operating on one service, like on the 94 and 11.
Would 2 operators like Claribels and NX or DTS and NX be operating in the same livery surely thats going to be confusing to the many passengers with NX passes and tickets only wanting the NX Bus.
Quote from: 2206 on July 19, 2018, 08:55:36 AM
How would this work where there are two operators operating on one service, like on the 94 and 11.
Would 2 operators like Claribels and NX or DTS and NX be operating in the same livery surely thats going to be confusing to the many passengers with NX passes and tickets only wanting the NX Bus.
I think the idea is to get rid of such tickets, and create a proper integrated public transport network like London
Can someone link the photo of 4878 into this thread.
I agree with
@Smethwickian You people take things too seriously.
Quote from: MW on July 19, 2018, 11:51:35 AM
Can someone link the photo of 4878 into this thread.
I agree with @Smethwickian
You people take things too seriously.
Photo attached (Credit - Steven Simpson)
Looks bland unlike the crimson style
Quote from: MW on July 19, 2018, 11:51:35 AM
Can someone link the photo of 4878 into this thread.
I agree with @Smethwickian
You people take things too seriously.
Photos credited to Steven Simpson on the West Midlands Transport Facebook group.
It's looking ever so TfL inspired.... Finally NXWM has some quality liveries, then it's potentially all change again!
I see Andy Street has been visiting TfL with a view to sharing best practices for traffic management / Commonwealth Games planning etc
Quote from: Winston on July 19, 2018, 01:04:19 PM
It's looking ever so TfL inspired.... Finally NXWM has some quality liveries, then it's potentially all change again!
I see Andy Street has been visiting TfL with a view to sharing best practices for traffic management / Commonwealth Games planning etc
I believe that the idea is going to be to integrate certain routes where multiple operators are competing on at the moment. So this will be routes such as the 301/302, 42/43, 4/H/M etc. I believe NXWM and Diamond will be the first two operators to launch this livery. I think the idea behind this is that the two operators competing on a certain corridor will actually work together. They will be running a joint frequency, with buses in the same livery and will be able to issue and accept each other's tickets only on these integrated routes. Which means you can technically buy a Diamond Network Ticket from an NXWM bus on the 301, or an NXWM Daysaver off a Diamond bus on the 42. I think that's the idea anyway of how it will work. I think the next few months are going to be really interesting for the West Midlands bus scene... ;)
Quote from: Michael Bevan on July 19, 2018, 01:11:34 PM
I believe that the idea is going to be to integrate certain routes where multiple operators are competing on at the moment. So this will be routes such as the 301/302, 42/43, 4/H/M etc. I believe NXWM and Diamond will be the first two operators to launch this livery. I think the idea behind this is that the two operators competing on a certain corridor will actually work together. They will be running a joint frequency, with buses in the same livery and will be able to issue and accept each other's tickets only on these integrated routes. Which means you can technically buy a Diamond Network Ticket from an NXWM bus on the 301, or an NXWM Daysaver off a Diamond bus on the 42. I think that's the idea anyway of how it will work. I think the next few months are going to be really interesting for the West Midlands bus scene... ;)
19 August start for 42/43
Why not just keep the crimson livery and just apply the decals with West Midlands bus ? Will cause more confusion with its introduction and nx/diamonds different ticketing
Quote from: metrocity on July 19, 2018, 01:15:52 PM
19 August start for 42/43
I'd heard NXWM will be repainting some of their E200's in a 'special livery' for the 42/42, that explains it.
If competing operators will be working together & co-ordinating timetables, it should provide a better overall service for passengers & offer more flexibility. Instances like Claribel's running 5 mins in front of Diamond 75's doesn't benefit anyone, and the NXWM / Diamond 4H's are quite often following each other...
Finally starting to see buses in a decent colour scheme again and bam, they throw that boring rubbish in... The bit by the doors looks like a poor man's Lothian Harlequin livery!
So if the routes Michael has mentioned are correct, the recently crimsonned scanias and b7rles will all need to be done again from scratch? Will NX (and Diamond) have to pay for this themselves or will they be reimbursed? Just sounds like more money being wasted at the hands of tfwm...I agree with the streetdeck, keep the classier Crimson and just apply WMBus decals.
Just seen 4878 heading towards perry barr garage
Oh good grief when will it all end the ever changing livery merry go round , the current Crimson is quality certain vehicle types look great with it , the enviro 400 hybrids looked the business compared to the green on white livery.
Quote from: Nxwm on July 19, 2018, 02:30:16 PM
Just seen 4878 heading towards perry barr garage
Been to Summer Lane.
Eugh, honestly another stupid idea. All the 301/2 branded buses which have only been repainted will be getting another repaint and branding?!?! What a big waste of money repainting them all and repaint them again! I agree with what someone has previously said - TfL inspired. This new livery looks awful and just looks cheap as opposed to Crimson. Sounds like more money been wasted by TfWM... ::)
Will the crimson livery be stopped?
@Tony
Quote from: Jack on July 19, 2018, 03:29:35 PM
Eugh, honestly another stupid idea. All the 301/2 branded buses which have only been repainted will be getting another repaint and branding?!?! What a big waste of money repainting them all and repaint them again! I agree with what someone has previously said - TfL inspired. This new livery looks awful and just looks cheap as opposed to Crimson. Sounds like more money been wasted by TfWM... ::)
But it will benefit passengers.
With a co-ordinated frequency and the two operators working together rather than competing with each other.
At present one operator running right infront of the other is no overall benefit to the majority of passengers (eg 75, 4/H, etc) who could have just got the bus behind and the many with NX passes on routes where they are competing with NX (eg - 11, 94, 16 etc.).
It sounds like a good idea to me.
In my opinion it actually sounds like a pretty good idea and it will provide a better overall quality service.
Quote from: 2206 on July 19, 2018, 03:38:59 PM
But it will benefit passengers.
With a co-ordinated frequency and the two operators working together rather than competing with each other.
At present one operator running right infront of the other is no use to the majority of passengers (eg 75, 4/H, etc) and the many with NX passes on routes where they are competing with NX (eg - 11, 94, 16 etc.).
It sounds like a good idea to me.
In my opinion it actually sounds like a pretty good idea and it will provide a better overall quality service.
Oxford seems to be managing this fine without all the buses being repainted. The integrated timetable provides a good service but allows marketing at Stagecoach and OBC to work their own magic, which in my opinion makes more sense than repainting routes that share operators into one base livery. If anything, it will only divide the core shared corridors from the routes without competition. I fear that the West Midlands Bus logo makes it seem like its a whole new entity rather than a brand that the routes are running on. I'm rather sceptical on that basis but I guess we'll have to see where it leads...
Quote from: Jack on July 19, 2018, 03:29:35 PM
Eugh, honestly another stupid idea. All the 301/2 branded buses which have only been repainted will be getting another repaint and branding?!?! What a big waste of money repainting them all and repaint them again! I agree with what someone has previously said - TfL inspired. This new livery looks awful and just looks cheap as opposed to Crimson. Sounds like more money been wasted by TfWM... ::)
How can you say it looks awful when you haven't seen it? How does it look cheap?
How can you say money has been wasted when you have no idea regarding the plans that are in place. Big plans are in place for the West Midlands bus operations over the next year or two. So why noy wsit and see becore judging with no evidence to back it up.
Quote from: 2206 on July 19, 2018, 03:38:59 PM
But it will benefit passengers.
With a co-ordinated frequency and the two operators working together rather than competing with each other.
At present one operator running right infront of the other is no overall benefit to the majority of passengers (eg 75, 4/H, etc) who could have just got the bus behind and the many with NX passes on routes where they are competing with NX (eg - 11, 94, 16 etc.).
It sounds like a good idea to me.
In my opinion it actually sounds like a pretty good idea and it will provide a better overall quality service.
The idea is a very good one but I don't see the need for a common livery. They could just carry common branding like the Buses for Sheffield / One city, One service type branding. It's a similar concept to that by the sounds of it.
Have i missed something? Looks awful? Where are the photos? What are the colours?
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 19, 2018, 05:25:35 PM
Have i missed something? Looks awful? Where are the photos? What are the colours?
Reply 38 on the third page.
Quote from: 2206 on July 19, 2018, 03:38:59 PM
But it will benefit passengers.
With a co-ordinated frequency and the two operators working together rather than competing with each other.
At present one operator running right infront of the other is no overall benefit to the majority of passengers (eg 75, 4/H, etc) who could have just got the bus behind and the many with NX passes on routes where they are competing with NX (eg - 11, 94, 16 etc.).
It sounds like a good idea to me.
In my opinion it actually sounds like a pretty good idea and it will provide a better overall quality service.
So those with nx travel cards will be able to travel on diamond buses? I'm confused about the whole thing.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 19, 2018, 05:29:58 PM
Reply 38 on the third page.
Thank you.
Maybe a bit slow here, but is that photo the finished article?
I think it looks so bland! Disappointed.
Surely all this will weaken NXWM's dominance in the West Midlands market?
Quote from: MW on July 19, 2018, 05:40:54 PM
Surely all this will weaken NXWM's dominance in the West Midlands market?
I would say it does. TfWM probably has made a deal with NXWM to maintain their market share or other way to ensure they're appropriately compensated due to loss of the market share.
Never mind NX's repainting issues.
Diamond will be fun!
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 19, 2018, 05:40:36 PM
Thank you.
Maybe a bit slow here, but is that photo the finished article?
I think it looks so bland! Disappointed.
If you look at the computer generated images in Modern Railways and the photos of tram 31 in its new 2-tone blue livery, you will see that there is a relief between the two colours consisting of a number of diamonds. I would guess that the photos were taken before any relief was applied on the offside of the bus. Therefore, my guess would be that the last (side-on) photo is not of the final livery.
Seems like Diamond is about to get a boost in revenue and NXWM are about to take a loss. Unless I'm missing something.
Quote from: Jack on July 19, 2018, 03:29:35 PM
This new livery looks awful and just looks cheap as opposed to Crimson.
Do you realise that crimson is a colour and not a design or pattern or livery layout? The WMB livery seems to have plenty of crimson in it!
Quote from: Gareth on July 19, 2018, 08:02:46 PM
Do you realise that crimson is a colour and not a design or pattern or livery layout? The WMB livery seems to have plenty of crimson in it!
That's being a bit pedantic, 'Crimson' has been used for ages to refer to NXWM's updated livery. Yes, we all know it's a colour, but it's also used to refer to the livery.
The rebrand got a mention in this - 18 minutes in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bb2pr8/midlands-today-evening-news-19072018#
The thing I'm most curious about with this is that NXWM have sent a bus that's literally just on it's way to being Crimsoned
It's like NXWM are saying "here, we're taking part in this scheme and here's our bus that we're now going to paint into our own colours anyway"
It's going to be such a mammoth task and probably going to cost a fair bit to repaint the fleet into the new livery so why continue with the current repaint?
Why not use this opportunity to get the buses of Birmingham their identity back! Blue and cream!
Quote from: BigDaddyCool on July 20, 2018, 11:13:10 AM
Why not use this opportunity to get the buses of Birmingham their identity back! Blue and cream!
Well my buses were red in Castle Bromwich
This initiative seems to have a number of implications but as many of NXWMs vehicles are already in a two tone red livery to match, presumably they don't have to be repainted to comply?
However what about Coventry? And how does platinum fit in?
NXWM in fact could get away with just repinting the rear part of red and white liveried buses! I'll look forward to seeing Banga and East West vehicles proudly running in red.
This works for NXWM no issues... except platinum, what about those??? and more interesting what about diamond and arriva (all one of them!)??
More on this here:
https://www.wmca.org.uk/news/a-brand-for-the-west-midlands-tfwm-reveals-new-public-transport-identity
Quote from: don on July 20, 2018, 11:22:01 AM
However what about Coventry? And how does platinum fit in?
It says in the WMCA press release "Buses operated in Coventry by National Express are expected to retain their distinctive sky blue livery but will carry the WMT logo."
Are the crimson repaints going to be replaced by this livery from now
I for one am more interested in the likes of Diamond and Claribels now. I wonder how this will affect them. If it's going to become a TfL like tender process, then it'll give these two operators a foothold to expand. Even if it's not a tender process, it'll mean these companies will expand because presumably the WM Travelcard will become defunct? Will this also mean that all operators must have the same ticket machines/printers so tickets are the same?
We have been here before 40 years ago buses in Newcastle were all painted yellow. Leeds, Liverpool all had the appropriate Logo on and Birmingham all consumed by the one company it was called a PTE.Just waiting now for Midland Red to make a return happy days.
To me, this all looks like typical Local Authority "look at what we're doing" grandstanding. Referring to the link Stu has posted, how do they reconcile "...we will have trains, trams, buses and cycles with one uniting identity...." with "Each has its own distinctive livery - orange for trains, blue for trams, red for buses, green for bikes...." ? Using a small and unimpressive logo along with the words "West Midlands" will not unite the four, far more powerful, liveries. The logo is barely discernible in the photograph, which seems to be more about the three people than the transport. Also, how does a comprehensive and integrated system work with a deregulated bus industry? Are we to have London style franchising for the whole county? Is one body going to control all bus train and tram timetables? Is that body going to take responsibility when things go wrong, or simply pass the buck to the individual private companies? When this was last started by the WMPTA/WMPTE in 1968 (yes, 50 YEARS AGO!) they took control and they took responsibility. Trams aside (a very costly yet small proportion of passenger miles), this just looks like a weak style-over-substance publicity exercise.
@midlandred2003. If you look at its ancestry, NXWM
is Midland Red!
Fair point, but what a waste of time and money. And don't get me started about the moron who decided to renumber all the routes?
Whilst I am all in favour of more co-ordinated timetables between operators I think the livery idea is ridiculous.
If there is to be a new livery I feel it should be in neutral colours, the livery on 4878 looks very much like the current NX livery on the sides and rear and the previous livery on the front. Using a coolur such as the green now on First's 144 would work, otherwise it can easily give the impression that all vehicles on the 4/4H, 16, 50 etc are NX.
A question would Diamond be expected to run buses on route 16W in TfWM livery as the route is different to NX 16 or NX to run TfWM liveried buses on the 4M? There is possibly an easy way around this, to renumber routes, for example if Diamond re-numbered their 16 as 15 it is a different route.
This potenially adds costs to small operators such as Banga, DTS, Travel Express who will need to repaint 100% of their fleet.
Maybe a sensible comprimise is for competing routes to have the same style of route branding applied to their livery.
Who's paying? WMCA is the tram operator and the rail franchise is subsidised heavily so council tax and income tax money is already funding these, but most NXWM routes are commercial. Do NXWM and other operators get some sort of grant for repainting?
tfwm need sort out the archaic swift system first before throwing money at stunts like this. Went to a newsagent on a high street in Brum today intending to buy a 1 week NBus pass for somebody, to be told it is only available on swift now (admittedly it's been a while now, this may have changed ages ago) and I'd be unable to have one as the swift machines havent been working for four days. The guy in the shop then went on to tell me not to bother wasting my time with it anyway(I did say to him after I would never have swift anyway) as they had had numerous customers coming back complaining about the swift system and how unreliable it is! Several of his customers had been unable to "collect" money afterwards or activate the cards and were blaming the shop and one had complained that her pass wasn't working correctly. Long story short he ended the conversation with and I quote "we're just recommending everyone who asks now to buy the National Express travelcards as they are easier".. suffice to say an NX travelcard was purchased instead! Makes you wonder just how many people have actually had poor experience with it overall if that was just one shopkeeper!
Quote from: V89MOA on July 20, 2018, 10:35:08 PM
tfwm need sort out the archaic swift system first before throwing money at stunts like this. Went to a newsagent on a high street in Brum today intending to buy a 1 week NBus pass for somebody, to be told it is only available on swift now (admittedly it's been a while now, this may have changed ages ago) and I'd be unable to have one as the swift machines havent been working for four days. The guy in the shop then went on to tell me not to bother wasting my time with it anyway(I did say to him after I would never have swift anyway) as they had had numerous customers coming back complaining about the swift system and how unreliable it is! Several of his customers had been unable to "collect" money afterwards or activate the cards and were blaming the shop and one had complained that her pass wasn't working correctly. Long story short he ended the conversation with and I quote "we're just recommending everyone who asks now to buy the National Express travelcards as they are easier".. suffice to say an NX travelcard was purchased instead! Makes you wonder just how many people have actually had poor experience with it overall if that was just one shopkeeper!
Honestly I completely agree here.
I've had so many issues with my Swift card that I feel like it's just poorly managed and a rushed system.
Firstly, I wasn't able to register my card on the website, meaning I had to call them up to get it registered again
Secondly, after purchasing an upgrade it wouldn't update my card so I had to spend 45 minutes on the phone (20 on hold) waiting for someone to resend the update.
On top of this, TfWM don't seem to know the product themselves. Network WM twitter told me I could buy an NNetwork Daytripper from Moor Street on Swift, and when I got there I was told at the ticket office I had to go to New Street. I showed them the tweet and they just said that they should know as it's their own product.
Also, if anyone decides its a good idea to get rid of NX only etc season tickets, forcing everyone onto a more expensive multi operator one issued on Swift, I think a lot of people will stop using buses because most people as it is have NX travelcards, and when they have an increase of more than a £1 I think there will be a bit of a backlash.
TfWM lover has kept quiet I notice.
Honestly I'm not surprised about NBus, considering everything is about bloody Swift nowadays! Reasons that have been mentioned here are why I refuse to have a swift card and rather have my monthly bus pass that comes through the post. Tbf Swift is all over the place nowadays so no surprise NBus is not as popular now. Family members who use Swift say they regretted having it now after the constant problems they have with it.
Swift is awful, I gave up with it. The top-up via the website is appallingly slow, so may times I got to the final screen to discover my top-up amount was GBP 0.00.
Having finally put a tenner on it, while trying to load the card using NFC, the recently updated app killed my phone to such an extent I had to google how to recover it from its collapsed state.
When i finally located a machine to load the card manually - Pershore Road has THREE in Cotteridge then only one during the whole length of the road into Brum, it was broken.
The NX ticket app on the other hand is superb.
Quote from: cardew on July 21, 2018, 12:14:47 AM
Swift is awful, I gave up with it. The top-up via the website is appallingly slow, so may times I got to the final screen to discover my top-up amount was GBP 0.00.
Having finally put a tenner on it, while trying to load the card using NFC, the recently updated app killed my phone to such an extent I had to google how to recover it from its collapsed state.
When i finally located a machine to load the card manually - Pershore Road has THREE in Cotteridge then only one during the whole length of the road into Brum, it was broken.
The NX ticket app on the other hand is superb.
Speaking of the top up machines... I believe theres none in the Sutton Coldfield or Erdington area.
Quote from: Jack on July 21, 2018, 12:00:38 AM
TfWM lover has kept quiet I notice.
Honestly I'm not surprised about NBus, considering everything is about bloody Swift nowadays! Reasons that have been mentioned here are why I refuse to have a swift card and rather have my monthly bus pass that comes through the post. Tbf Swift is all over the place nowadays so no surprise NBus is not as popular now. Family members who use Swift say they regretted having it now after the constant problems they have with it.
Oh i do apologise
@Jack that I've been at a wedding! Secondly, I'm not even going to justify the twoddle that these two are spewing.
Nbus has been swift only for over a year, posters have been on the buses for that time, so thats on you
@V89MOA.
Swift isn't a finished product, nor has it even been proclaimed to be. It's being developed day by day. But proves a reduction in fraud and not only that, makes life essier for both drivers and passengers. Being able to buy the ticket you want without having to identify the nearest travelshop or newsagents is a fantastic assest.
@Jack, i can't see any real valid reason as to why you'd refuse to have a swift card. Do you have any actual proof that nBus is not popular anymore?
@james99 you made the mistake by not contacting Swift on Twitter. They'd be able to advise better regarding specific ticketing claims. Also your issue with sorting your swift card is an issue that i honestly have not crossed. The ticketing department is extremely busy and work tirelessly to help every single customer. It's not always a straight forward solution. So can take time to discover.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 12:16:29 AM
Speaking of the top up machines... I believe theres none in the Sutton Coldfield or Erdington area.
The top up machines on the Walsall Road are most of the time 'out of order'. Come to think of it there's no top up machines in Perry Beeches.
Quote from: Dom on July 21, 2018, 12:19:04 AM
Oh i do apologise @Jack that I've been at a wedding! Secondly, I'm not even going to justify the twoddle that these two are spewing.
Nbus has been swift only for over a year, posters have been on the buses for that time, so thats on you @V89MOA.
Swift isn't a finished product, nor has it even been proclaimed to be. It's being developed day by day. But proves a reduction in fraud and not only that, makes life essier for both drivers and passengers. Being able to buy the ticket you want without having to identify the nearest travelshop or newsagents is a fantastic assest.
@Jack, i can't see any real valid reason as to why you'd refuse to have a swift card. Do you have any actual proof that nBus is not popular anymore?
@james99 you made the mistake by not contacting Swift on Twitter. They'd be able to advise better regarding specific ticketing claims. Also your issue with sorting your swift card is an issue that i honestly have not crossed. The ticketing department is extremely busy and work tirelessly to help every single customer. It's not always a straight forward solution. So can take time to discover.
Fyi I'm not spewing trouble! I'm making my opinion clear tyvm!
With the trouble that Swift has caused, why should I upgrade to one exactly?
Quote from: Dom on July 21, 2018, 12:19:04 AM
Nbus has been swift only for over a year, posters have been on the buses for that time, so thats on you @V89MOA.
Oh Yeah how dare I break the swift machine four days ahead of trying to buy a pass!
The whole swift system needs to go and a brand new smarter system introduced, perhaps a more railway friendly one! Seriously we are living in 2018 you can pay for bus travel with credit cards but a smartcard that works is too much to ask? No let's just waste money on white elephants rather than a core issue that genuinely would make travel easier for people...London's smartcard system is brilliant, ours is like something from The Flintstones.
Quote from: V89MOA on July 21, 2018, 12:23:51 AM
Oh Yeah how dare I break the swift machine four days ahead of trying to buy a pass!
The whole swift system needs to go and a brand new smarter system introduced, perhaps a more railway friendly one! Seriously we are living in 2018 you can pay for bus travel with credit cards but a smartcard that works is too much to ask? No let's just waste money on white elephants rather than a core issue that genuinely would make travel easier for people...London's smartcard system is brilliant, ours is like something from The Flintstones.
I think an NX only smart card for NX season tickets should be introduced that's specifically designed to work with the Init system... but that probably won't happen with all of this integration.
NX could easily do a better job - afterall, they've got a good contactless system using init.
Oh and by integration... I see fare rises as I wouldn't be surprised if TfWM try and get rid of operator specific tickets.
And the current NBus monthly is more expensive than NX one.
@V89MOA is right... Totally frivolously wasting money (and charging the passengers more so no benefit to them).
Quote from: Dom on July 21, 2018, 12:19:04 AM
Swift isn't a finished product, nor has it even been proclaimed to be.
Swift has been out since around 2013.
Sounds like a Smartcard version of the Forth Bridge painting!
Quote from: Jack on July 21, 2018, 12:31:48 AM
Careful on what you are saying there, next thing you'll get is someone completely disagreeing with your opinion!
Oh I know.
Quote from: Straightlines on July 21, 2018, 12:30:20 AM
Swift has been out since around 2013.
Sounds like a Smartcard version of the Forth Bridge painting!
Advertising Swift PAYG when there are areas with no Swift PAYG top up points so you have to buy a ticket to go to one... especially if you've got an iPhone instead of an Android phone.
As I say, I reckon in a year or two TfWM will force everyone to have an NBus (albeit under a different name) which is a lot more expensive than the NX offering that most people have. Backlash from the passengers!
Also, what right do TfWM have to use taxpayers money to make advertising on bus shelters, by replacing the shelters, more visible to car drivers to make more money when they're already making bus travel more expensive, and then wasting the money on vanity projects.
Its a combined authority. So should be for the benefit of local people.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 12:34:32 AM
Also, what right do TfWM have to use taxpayers money to make advertising on bus shelters, by replacing them, more visible to car drivers to make more money when they're already making bus travel more expensive.
Oh and replace perfectly good shelters with new crap ones so people are exposed to the elements so an advert board is put up to advertise propaganda. This one really winds me up!
I can name loads of stops with these appalling shelters.
Quote from: Jack on July 21, 2018, 12:37:31 AM
Oh and replace perfectly good shelters with new crap ones so people are exposed to the elements so an advert board is put up to advertise propaganda.
It's because the advertising company will pay them more as more people (car drivers) can see it as they drive past.
And then they use this money on replacing more shelters... and then on things such as this new corporate branding scheme.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 12:39:27 AM
It's because the advertising company will pay them more as more people (car drivers) can see it as they drive past.
And then they use this money on replacing more shelters... and then on things such as this new corporate branding scheme.
Yes, so more money is wasted. Like replacing busy shelters with pole stops as their data tells them otherwise. Cough Station Bridge. Oh and Gravelly Hill, The Mount inbound which is often busy from passing by a lot.
A decent thing they could use the money on is replace faded flags on bus stops that you can barely see. But no I'll get told that's a waste of money and using it on new shelters are better...
Quote from: Dom on July 21, 2018, 12:19:04 AM
The ticketing department is extremely busy and work tirelessly to help every single customer. It's not always a straight forward solution. So can take time to discover.
@Dom Maybe the ticketing department is working tirelessly to help customers, but the data collecting department isn't. It's wasting taxpayers (customers) money to pay people to do jobs that are done by the ticket machines.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 12:44:30 AM
The money is wasted on staff that are no longer needed as both Init and Ticketer do their jobs for them ;)
So what about all those operators on parkeon machines?
Call me cynical (as I'm sure I will be) but having read the press release from TFWM the only real reasons they give for this re-brand are to inspire a sense of pride and provide a single identity for all transport in the area. Hardly sound economic reasoning in a time when budgets are being slashed left right and centre. It feels very much like something that can be done that people will be able to see rather than having any real concrete foundation in actually improving services.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 12:26:41 AM
I think an NX only smart card for NX season tickets should be introduced that's specifically designed to work with the Init system... but that probably won't happen with all of this integration.
NX could easily do a better job - afterall, they've got a good contactless system using init.
Oh and by integration... I see fare rises as I wouldn't be surprised if TfWM try and get rid of operator specific tickets.
And the current NBus monthly is more expensive than NX one.
@V89MOA is right... Totally frivolously wasting money (and charging the passengers more so no benefit to them).
The intergration with joint frequencys etc. sounds to me like it'll actually improve things for passengers.
How can you complain that they'll raise fares when thats not been anounced yet, and they've not announced what plans they've got in place.
Quote from: Jack on July 21, 2018, 12:00:38 AM
TfWM lover has kept quiet I notice.
Honestly I'm not surprised about NBus, considering everything is about bloody Swift nowadays! Reasons that have been mentioned here are why I refuse to have a swift card and rather have my monthly bus pass that comes through the post. Tbf Swift is all over the place nowadays so no surprise NBus is not as popular now. Family members who use Swift say they regretted having it now after the constant problems they have with it.
Regarding your comment "Tbf Swift is all over the place nowadays so no surprise NBus is not as popular now.
I've got a swift card - N Bus swift (Direct Debit) - used to have a NX Regional one as welll, never had any problems using them over the last 12 months as well.
I'm sure anybody wanting to make a trip involving 2 operators or that has to regualrly use a non NX tendered route (eg Igo 96/99), there seem to be plenty of passengers along the 94 route (though many have NX passes so will wait for the NX bus) that do have swift cards so they can get on the Claribels bus, presumably they'd find it more convenient and quicker/faster to just be able to get on the first bus that comes.
I don't see how you can know its not a popular product.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 12:16:29 AM
Speaking of the top up machines... I believe theres none in the Sutton Coldfield or Erdington area.
Pay As You Go and topping up does seem to be inconvenient though - inconvenience of having to find somewhere to top it up and they seem to be few and far between, etc
Quote from: 2206 on July 21, 2018, 08:29:05 AM
Regarding your comment "Tbf Swift is all over the place nowadays so no surprise NBus is not as popular now.
I've got a swift card - N Bus swift (Direct Debit) - used to have a NX Regional one as welll, never had any problems using them over the last 12 months as well.
I'm sure anybody wanting to make a trip involving 2 operators or that has to regualrly use a non NX tendered route (eg Igo 96/99), there seem to be plenty of passengers along the 94 route (though many have NX passes so will wait for the NX bus) that do have swift cards so they can get on the Claribels bus, presumably they'd find it more convenient and quicker/faster to just be able to get on the first bus that comes.
Pay As You Go does seem a bit difficult though - inconvenience of having to find somewhere to top it up and they seem to be few and far between
I don't see how you can know its not a popular product.
I was talking about PAYG Swift. There's been many problems from family members using them like the money not going in to the card, a card reader that is out of order and an available one is not local.
Quote from: Steveminor on July 21, 2018, 06:59:55 AM
So what about all those operators on parkeon machines?
Maybe so, but with the two larger operators using Init and Ticketer, you'd think they'd only need a couple (no more than 3) data collectors. Now they've got more than three as I've seen three together in one place. And different ones elsewhere on the same day.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 09:09:10 AM
Maybe so, but with the two larger operators using Init and Ticketer, you'd think they'd only need a couple (no more than 3) data collectors. Now they've got more than three as I've seen three together in one place.
You may well of done. But you won't have a clue what were dping. Several of our jobs require more that 1 or 2 people. Don't comment on something you've not got a clue about.
Quote from: Dom on July 21, 2018, 09:11:31 AM
You may well of done. But you won't have a clue what were dping. Several of our jobs require more that 1 or 2 people. Don't comment on something you've not got a clue about.
Still a waste of money when I've actually just seen them sitting in McDonald's, or playing on their phones ;)
Oh and standing no where near the buses in Sutton on the pedestrianised bit by Poundland.
Should do work rather than standing around wasting taxpayers money.
I shall be sending a complaint to Tfwm.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 09:15:16 AM
Still a waste of money when I've actually just seen them sitting in McDonald's, or playing on their phones ;)
Oh and standing no where near the buses in Sutton on the pedestrianised bit by Poundland.
Should do work rather than standing around wasting taxpayers money.
I shall be sending a complaint to Tfwm.
This is getting personal now. So ends here. You don't know whether they're on a break or what their instructions are.
Quote from: james99 on July 21, 2018, 09:15:16 AM
Still a waste of money when I've actually just seen them sitting in McDonald's, or playing on their phones ;)
Oh and standing no where near the buses in Sutton on the pedestrianised bit by Poundland.
Said employee could be on their break? They could have a gap in services? May have time to go to the shop to get a drink?
Are you going to complain to National Express when you see a bus driver stood outside his bus on Bull Street? Using your logic you should, because they're not doing their job.
The hate for NWM here is hilarious. Re the bus stop argument
@Jack I have already mentioned before that the stop opposite Perry Barr Station is confirmed as only being temporary, but don't let that get in the way of your own personal beef....
How do you know nBus tickets aren't popular now? I would say they're more popular, the Init readers show up a lot of NWM tickets above NXWM tickets whenever I'm boarding, tend to look because I'm curious what passes people have in front of me while I'm boarding.
Quote from: Tony on July 21, 2018, 09:52:52 AM
This is getting personal now. So ends here. You don't know whether they're on a break or what their instructions are.
Thank goodness for that. Someone remind me of the title of this thread. It certainly wasn't intended for the personal nature of some recent posts. Back on topic please, that's surely more than enough to discuss.
Swift has certainly made my life easier, it was a pain having to replace the ticket in my nTrain wallet monthly, then having to take it out and put it through the ticket barriers at train stations - which sometimes didn't even work.
Losing your Swift card is a world of hassle though, that must be said, NWM are very reluctant to help you out while you're waiting for your replacement card to arrive.
Back on topic, is the newly branded class 172 out in service today?
What would be nice is a Swift app like the NXWM app. You just show it to the driver. I always use the NX app to get to and from work.
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 21, 2018, 12:39:44 PMBack on topic, is the newly branded class 172 out in service today?
Neither the 170 or 172 that they teased are out yet, unless they've managed to evade anyone out photting, as nothing's turned up on Flickr yet.
Quote from: StourValley98 on July 21, 2018, 04:17:26 PM
Neither the 170 or 172 that they teased are out yet, unless they've managed to evade anyone out photting, as nothing's turned up on Flickr yet.
They've repainted a 170 too? :o
Quote from: Sh4318 on July 21, 2018, 06:09:25 PM
They've repainted a 170 too? :o
Yeah, if you look at the teaser image on their Twitter or Facebook pages, the photo in the top right has square cornered windows, so I'm 99% sure it's a 170. All of the 172s, even the Overground ones, have their windows rounded in the corners.
There are photos circulating of 172342 in its orange livery
Whenever I visit Birmingham I buy a nBus ticket if I'm only going to use buses. If I'm intending to use trams and/or trains as well I'll buy a Daytripper ticket.
Quote from: Brummie45 on July 21, 2018, 06:43:20 PM
There are photos circulating of 172342 in its orange livery
Where?
@Brummie45
Have heard its all west midlandw opetators going to be branded as West Midlands Bus.
Whilst I can understand why TfWM want to do this, I fail to see why NXWM would want to be a part of this. Surely if it is going to mark the end of operators own ticket it will only help their competition.
It seems like TfWM are pushing for a London style integrated transport system here but our bus network is not comparable to London at all really.
Will we get our very own Boris bus or Andy Bus with rear door entry and striking moquette across all operators
So now the new bus livery has seen the light of day the question increasingly being asked is what happens to NXWM's current repaint programme. Can you offer a comment Tony? Surely they won't continue repainting into a soon to be redundant livery? Wouldn't that go against the overriding principle of the initiative and lead to an increase in the number of liveries?
Remember guys certain things operators can't comment on. Tonys silence would suggest he can't comment would it not.
For that matter no operator has yet commented, a watch a wait policy from people should maybe be adopted.
Understand what you say Steveminor but unless 4878 is a one off, which given all the publicity seems very unlikely, there will be more vehicles, probably most of them, in the TfWM livery. Just wondering how the transition will be implemented. Of course could be another official secrets act issue! Please nobody take that comment seriously. Please!
As has been said 4878 was a demonstration and is now at walsall being painted in standard crimsom
Thanks for responding Tony although it does raise the question as to whether NXWM are in reality actually 'joining the party' which was the impression inevitably given by the 'demonstration' vehicle and the media publicity it gained, or are they? 4878 now being crimsoned suggests not any time soon.
It states in this weeks Bus and Coach Week that it is expected that Coventry will retain their current blue livery, What about Stagecoach and DeCourcey? It seems a bit of a farce to me. Personally I never thought Coventry should be part of the West Midlands. I think these Quangos should concentrate on getting information out on time.
If all buses are going to know as West Midlands Bus will route numbers be changed so passengers know a NX40 service West Bromwich to Wednesbury that of a Diamond 40 service West Bromwich to Wednesbury.
Quote from: Ginger66 on July 28, 2018, 12:01:02 PM
If all buses are going to know as West Midlands Bus will route numbers be changed so passengers know a NX40 service West Bromwich to Wednesbury that of a Diamond 40 service West Bromwich to Wednesbury.
No they aren't changing - it seems diamond and NX are launching this first with the 42 and 43 being the first routes to carry the livery, the 42 and 43 in West Brom on the 19th August, and then the 31 and 32 service shortly afterwards on the 2nd September. Both operators will be keeping the same route numbers.
I did ask here how passengers will be able to tell both services apart eg if someone has a NX pass and was told the idea is to better integrate the West Midlands bus network.
Quote from: Kevin on July 19, 2018, 10:16:18 AM
I think the idea is to get rid of such tickets, and create a proper integrated public transport network like London
Quote from: Michael Bevan on July 19, 2018, 01:11:34 PM
I believe that the idea is going to be to integrate certain routes where multiple operators are competing on at the moment. So this will be routes such as the 301/302, 42/43, 4/H/M etc. I believe NXWM and Diamond will be the first two operators to launch this livery. I think the idea behind this is that the two operators competing on a certain corridor will actually work together. They will be running a joint frequency, with buses in the same livery and will be able to issue and accept each other's tickets only on these integrated routes. Which means you can technically buy a Diamond Network Ticket from an NXWM bus on the 301, or an NXWM Daysaver off a Diamond bus on the 42. I think that's the idea anyway of how it will work. I think the next few months are going to be really interesting for the West Midlands bus scene... ;)
If thats the case then passengers won't have much need to tell the operators apart from each other.
Otherwise it'd be very confusion for passengers, eg someone with a NX Bus Pass, or NX Daysaver or someone with a Diamond Day Ticket.
On the subject of the 31 & 32, is it just a matter of changing the branding on the existing vehicles, or will different vehicles be used & the existing vehicles debranded/rebranded for a different route?
(Seeing the previous 10/10a vehicles have been seen on the 301/302 lately & I've spotted the 301 / 302's on other routes as well, could / would NX change the Bloxwich allocation to permanent DD's & rebrand the current 301/302's to the 10/10a instead? I'd be surprised, as the 301/302's are quiet during the day anyway, when I've been on them.
Plus the Diamond vehicles need their branding replacing anyway!)
As 23/24 will be rerouted as of 2/9/18 surely it would be easy to put the WMB bus flags on stops on new part of route pagoda island to five ways.
It's been announced on the NX website that the 42, 43, 43A which is operated by both NXWM and Diamond will use the new combined brand from 19th August. There's a new combined timetable and both operators will sell eachother's tickets (looks a little confusing not sure how well it will work at first). This explains why I saw new bus stop flags around Bilston with the West Midlands Bus logo.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/changes-to-services-42-43
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 16, 2018, 12:50:26 PM
It's been announced on the NX website that the 42, 43, 43A which is operated by both NXWM and Diamond will use the new combined brand from 19th August. There's a new combined timetable and both operators will sell eachother's tickets (looks a little confusing not sure how well it will work at first). This explains why I saw new bus stop flags around Bilston with the West Midlands Bus logo.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/changes-to-services-42-43
It will be interesting to see this introduced on other routes like the 16 and 94, i've noticed some peak journeys on Claribels 94 and Diamonds 16 operated by Single Decker vehicels operate to capacity at the minute with a few passengers standing.
With extra users on the other operators on the 16 and 94 (passengers with NX passes and Day Tickets), it'll certainly be interesting to see whether Diamond or Claribels get some deckers to cope with the increased usage.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 16, 2018, 12:50:26 PM
It's been announced on the NX website that the 42, 43, 43A which is operated by both NXWM and Diamond will use the new combined brand from 19th August. There's a new combined timetable and both operators will sell eachother's tickets (looks a little confusing not sure how well it will work at first). This explains why I saw new bus stop flags around Bilston with the West Midlands Bus logo.
https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/information/service-changes/changes-to-services-42-43
Both operators currently provide 12 buses an hour (equivalent of every 5 mins) the new timetable is 8 buses an hour (every 7-8 mins), i wonder if that is enough ?
This was just a passing thought; not quite sure if I've articulated myself properly but here goes...
I wouldn't consider myself a "TfWM basher", as such, but has no one really put a thought in about the connotations brought about with the brand identity? I know it's being rolled out across the entire network (i.e. bus/tram/train), but obviously, in regards to bus operators and its competition, I see a slight altercation.
Taking a look at the new 42/43 route map, it looks like something Diamond (in their Go-Ahead days, admittedly) would come out with; not quality-wise, but symbol/imagery-wise. Is it sensible to have diamonds (or technically, rhombuses/rhombi) on route maps and timetables?
Obviously, in the context of integration, we know that tickets between the two operators would be versatile; and I guess that's what diffuses the situation. But, yeah, another idiotic point courtesy of yours truly. As I've said, just a passing thought.
I have to say this new integrated timetabling and acceptance of each other's tickets is fantastic for passengers on these routes but I have to wonder what is in it for the operators.
Passengers who make return journeys only on the 42 and 43 could board a nxwm bus in both directions and pay the lower diamond value ticket price without boarding a Diamond bus.
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/42-and-43-service-changes/
I've read you're only restricted to certain tickets.
Is that right?
Is there any ticket you cannot buy?
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Both operators currently provide 12 buses an hour (equivalent of every 5 mins) the new timetable is 8 buses an hour (every 7-8 mins), i wonder if that is enough ?
Surely if passengers can use both services, rather than one or the other (or paying a little more for both), it'll even itself out
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 16, 2018, 03:14:49 PM
Both operators currently provide 12 buses an hour (equivalent of every 5 mins) the new timetable is 8 buses an hour (every 7-8 mins), i wonder if that is enough ?
You can only look at the 12 buses an hour (every 5 mins) for people currently using Swift, Nbus or paying cash i.e. that both operators accept.
Currently NXWM pass/ticket holder & Diamond Value Pas/ticket holder have a service every 10 mins they can use, under the joint operation they will now have a service every 7-8 mins & can jump on the first bus that arrives regardless of operator. Plus both NXWM & Diamond should benefit from reduced Pvrs and operating costs.
Quote from: Winston on August 16, 2018, 11:08:19 PM
You can only look at the 12 buses an hour (every 5 mins) for people currently using Swift, Nbus or paying cash i.e. that both operators accept.
(Plus concessionary pass holders) Surely that is most people then? The whole ticket system is no different except both operators accept a couple, but not all, of the options.
Looking forward to seeing how the 31/32 plays out if the same level of service is going to be done.
Quote from: l.murphy123 on August 17, 2018, 12:39:36 AM
(Plus concessionary pass holders) Surely that is most people then? The whole ticket system is no different except both operators accept a couple, but not all, of the options.
No its not, I'd have thought there'd are lots of people who only use single operator passes and tickets (in this case Diamond Value Tickets and NX Bus Tickets, as well, lots of the people getting on paying with cash will buy a single operator day/return ticket which is cheaper than buying 2 single tickets).
Well there are in Birmingham, not sure about the Black Country - you'll notice NX's 94 and 16 are busier than Claribels 94 and Diamonds 16, due to passengers with NX tickets and passes only using NX buses.
Quote from: 2206 on August 17, 2018, 08:40:40 AM
...
Well there are in Birmingham, not sure about the Black Country - you'll notice NX's 94 and 16 are busier than Claribels 94 and Diamonds 16, due to passengers with NX tickets and passes only using NX buses.
You'd be surprised. With there being competition for such a long time on those two routes, a lot of passengers do have nBus passes and catch whichever comes first. Yes there are still NX pass holders but they aren't as dominant in those areas as you think
Plus a percentage of those on the 94 that only catch nxwm do so because they have invalid out of date tickets & passes, they have a better chance of an nxwm driver letting tgem on than a claribe driver.l
Quote from: Steveminor on August 17, 2018, 11:48:12 AM
Plus a percentage of those on the 94 that only catch nxwm do so because they have invalid out of date tickets & passes, they have a better chance of an nxwm driver letting tgem on than a claribe driver.l
Sad but entirely true
Noticed one bus stop flag changed to the tfwm brand on the lion farm est 3 3/A on it , strange just one random one done.
Quote from: 2900 on August 17, 2018, 02:28:47 PM
Noticed one bus stop flag changed to the tfwm brand on the lion farm est 3 3/A on it , strange just one random one done.
From what I read on the press release, the flags will be replaced 'naturally', ie when they need replacing, rather than doing them all in one go.
It does look odd though, I noticed yesterday that the flag at the Palmerston Road stop on Stratford Road has now been replaced to show the X50 instead of the X20. The irony of course is that this flag was only replaced a few weeks ago prior to the South Birmingham changes.
Will the hertiage fleet get the new livery as 3225 wouls look great in the west midlands bus colours.
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 17, 2018, 09:11:24 PM
Will the hertiage fleet get the new livery as 3225 wouls look great in the west midlands bus colours.
Have you got a photo of that
@Ginger66
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 17, 2018, 09:11:24 PM
Will the hertiage fleet get the new livery as 3225 wouls look great in the west midlands bus colours.
Are you serious?
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 17, 2018, 09:11:24 PM
Will the hertiage fleet get the new livery as 3225 wouls look great in the west midlands bus colours.
Does the word heritage not say anything to you?
Take it 31&32 service in Walsall will be in the new red livery wondering if the 2 in paint will be for the new 31/32 service
Some buses in standard red and white livery are carry west midlands bus branding at west bromwich today.
Quote from: Solo1 on August 18, 2018, 09:18:16 AM
Take it 31&32 service in Walsall will be in the new red livery wondering if the 2 in paint will be for the new 31/32 service
Couldnt they put stickers over the relavant parts of the existing branding until vehicles concerned are repainted?
(There was an obvious change on the 51 branded vehicles when the frequency was changed to 10 mins!)
BX62 FAK was out on the 42/43 in full TfWM livery today, the driver was nice enough to let me on with my NXWM Sandwell & Dudley ticket too since I'd just missed the NXWM bus in front. I did note a couple of NXWM E200s that have the new logo applied too, and all the stops have been updated along the route.
NXWM had some buses with update stickers while waiting for rebranding repaints
Has there been any definite official announcement about the 301 and 302 becoming the 31 and 32 and joint partnership services from 2nd September?
All I've found on this is on Diamond's service changes page:
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/west-midlands-september-service-changes/
Quote301 | Walsall to Mossley | Service will be renumbered 31 with new timetable
302 | Walsall to Lower Farm | Service will be renumbered 32 with new timetable
NX Bus haven't mentioned these routes being renumbered, and while there's been some publicity about the joint co-operation on the 42/43 services, there doesn't appear to have been anything announced about the 301/302?
Quote from: Stu on August 18, 2018, 05:57:18 PM
Has there been any definite official announcement about the 301 and 302 becoming the 31 and 32 and joint partnership services from 2nd September?
All I've found on this is on Diamond's service changes page:
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/west-midlands-september-service-changes/
NX Bus haven't mentioned these routes being renumbered, and while there's been some publicity about the joint co-operation on the 42/43 services, there doesn't appear to have been anything announced about the 301/302?
What about the scrolling messages on certain Walsall vehicles saying so?
While the Nx timetable has appeared on Nwm's site, it hasnt appeared(last time I looked it hadnt!) on Nx's site, while Diamond's version hasnt appeared anywhere yet!
Personally I want to see both operators on the same timetable leaflet, like on the 4 & 42/43!
Quote from: Westy on August 18, 2018, 06:10:45 PM
What about the scrolling messages on certain Walsall vehicles saying so?
While the Nx timetable has appeared on Nwm's site, it hasnt appeared(last time I looked it hadnt!) on Nx's site, while Diamond's version hasnt appeared anywhere yet!
Personally I want to see both operators on the same timetable leaflet, like on the 4 & 42/43!
Well, I don't live in Walsall, so I don't see the message on the displays on the buses!
If I search on the NWM website for say the 301 timetable, both the NX and Diamond timetables show as 'current', with no end date.
Granted, when I search for the 31 timetable, the NX timetable does come up, showing 'valid from 2nd Sept', but not Diamonds.
Quote from: Stu on August 18, 2018, 06:51:45 PM
Well, I don't live in Walsall, so I don't see the message on the displays on the buses!
If I search on the NWM website for say the 301 timetable, both the NX and Diamond timetables show as 'current', with no end date.
Granted, when I search for the 31 timetable, the NX timetable does come up, showing 'valid from 2nd Sept', but not Diamonds.
Stu, the 301/302 is being re-numbered 31/32 and re-launched with the TfWM livery as a jointly operated service from 2nd Sept. Diamond are bringing in the balance of 62/13 plate ex Hallmark Volvo's which will be supplemented by Tividale's existing 13 plate B7RLE's 30940-3, some of which are currently branded for the 4's.
Quote from: Winston on August 18, 2018, 06:56:54 PM
Stu, the 301/302 is being re-numbered 31/32 and re-launched with the TfWM livery as a jointly operated service from 2nd Sept. Diamond are bringing in the balance of 62/13 plate ex Hallmark Volvo's which will be supplemented by Tividale's existing 13 plate B7RLE's 30940-3, some of which are currently branded for the 4's.
Thanks for that, my point is where is the online publicity to officially annouce this?
To the uninitiated, this could all still be the stuff of rumours!
When I announce stuff like this on my WMBU Facebook page and website, I like to have some kind of source to link to.
It was only earlier this week that NX and Diamond posted updates on their websites about the 42/43 collaboration taking place from this Sunday.
Details of bus changes for september are on network west midlands website.
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 18, 2018, 08:49:41 PM
Details of bus changes for september are on network west midlands website.
So the 31/32 will be doing the same as the 42/43/A
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 18, 2018, 08:49:41 PM
Details of bus changes for september are on network west midlands website.
Anyone had an email from NWM re changes lately?
I was on the mailing list & even did that privacy thing recently too!
Quote from: Westy on August 18, 2018, 09:49:08 PM
Anyone had an email from NWM re changes lately?
I was on the mailing list & even did that privacy thing recently too!
There on the website
Quote from: Stu on August 18, 2018, 08:31:07 PM
Thanks for that, my point is where is the online publicity to officially annouce this?
To the uninitiated, this could all still be the stuff of rumours!
When I announce stuff like this on my WMBU Facebook page and website, I like to have some kind of source to link to.
It was only earlier this week that NX and Diamond posted updates on their websites about the 42/43 collaboration taking place from this Sunday.
Stu,
The VOSA registrations went in some time ago.
There appears to have been late changes to logo layouts / joint tickets validity & availability, I assume that if why the full re-launch notification has been late to be published.
I've seen comments from a Diamond employee thast the 31/32 branding is still being designed. Seems quite a tall ask for Diamond especially to re-panel / retrim & repaint 8 - 10 buses for re-launch in little over 2 weeks. NXWM have only been applying branding today for their 42/43 E200's.
Quote from: Westy on August 18, 2018, 11:23:09 PM
So what happened to the mailing list then?
I don't know
@Westy
How do they work out the PVR for each operator on these TfWM routes where there are two (or more)? Noticing there are currently 12 branded 301/302 B7RLEs - I'm guessing these will be rebranded for something else (10/10a), whilst the transferred BC vehicles will be repainted and go on the 31/32.
The reason I ask the question about how the duties are split up to be shared is the West Bromwich route appears to be 50/50 - is that how it currently operates?
Whilst I'm aware Diamond operate some routes as a full service these days, in some cases their operation (back to the early days of BCC) appeared to be the public transport equivalent of ambulance chasing - I.e. simply running journeys to cream off the largest passenger numbers but not running a full service. If the routes with competition are split equally between operators this would seem unfair if one operator only operates a few journeys.
If branded B7Lres are used for the 31/32, what happens on Sundays when that type isnt used?
(Unless management change their mind as regards this route, as wont it be rather embarrissing if the specially branded buses arent operating on day 1?)
Quote from: Westy on August 19, 2018, 05:38:24 PM
If branded B7Lres are used for the 31/32, what happens on Sundays when that type isnt used?
(Unless management change their mind as regards this route, as wont it be rather embarrissing if the specially branded buses arent operating on day 1?)
Bus will have new name sticker apllied ie proudly run by national express. So a smaller bus can go on route at weekends.
The new timetables for 42/43 is one of the best things to come out of West Midlands Bus. Instead of running neck to neck against each DIA and NX have helped to reduce co2 the route. The only snag is the 42 has it has two terminuses. Either NX has to certail theres or diamond has to extended theres. But the least likely to happen is put 11/311 back serving owen street.
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 20, 2018, 07:35:00 AM
The new timetables for 42/43 is one of the best things to come out of West Midlands Bus. Instead of running neck to neck against each DIA and NX have helped to reduce co2 the route. The only snag is the 42 has it has two terminuses. Either NX has to certail theres or diamond has to extended theres. But the least likely to happen is put 11/311 back serving owen street.
If you look at the timetable you'll see that both NX and Diamond operate the 42 to Dudley and Tipton
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2018-timetables/2nd-September/42_43_19082018_v11.pdf
What happens if any operator refuses to sign up to this will they be banned
from running the services they run
I've just found the new 31 and 32 timetables starting 2nd September, only the NX times are available at the moment but if you look you can work out where the Diamond journeys fit in.
31 (NX) there are various gaps of 6, 10 and 16 minutes in most cases.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__0000695e_TP.pdf
32 (NX) every 10-20 minutes
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__00003ae4_TP.pdf
I would say that will both operators the 32 will be every 10 minutes with two 31's (maybe) in between each 32.
I await the Diamond timetables with anticipation
Arriva midlands north will be hard to rebrand has services cover north and east midlands.
Quote from: Steve3229vp on August 20, 2018, 08:25:32 AM
I've just found the new 31 and 32 timetables starting 2nd September, only the NX times are available at the moment but if you look you can work out where the Diamond journeys fit in.
31 (NX) there are various gaps of 6, 10 and 16 minutes in most cases.
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__0000695e_TP.pdf
32 (NX) every 10-20 minutes
http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/TTB/CEN_EFA03__00003ae4_TP.pdf
I would say that will both operators the 32 will be every 10 minutes with two 31's (maybe) in between each 32.
I await the Diamond timetables with anticipation
How can Traveline get the NX timetable on it's site before NX does on it's own site?
Surely there's some sort of embargo? (Which is probably the reason why we're always waiting for timetables!)
Quote from: Westy on August 20, 2018, 08:53:40 PM
How can Traveline get the NX timetable on it's site before NX does on it's own site?
Surely there's some sort of embargo? (Which is probably the reason why we're always waiting for timetables!)
Very simple - TfWM will have received the timetable when registered and uploaded it - why should they embargo it, the registration is in the public domain so whats stopping them putting it onto Traveline in readiness? The Diamond 31/32 timetable hasn't been uploaded to Traveline yet, I was on the ftp site earlier today looking for the .xml files for them but they aren't there, probably later in the week if the service was registered later.
Quote from: Cheese on August 20, 2018, 09:02:48 PM
Very simple - TfWM will have received the timetable when registered and uploaded it - why should they embargo it, the registration is in the public domain so whats stopping them putting it onto Traveline in readiness? The Diamond 31/32 timetable hasn't been uploaded to Traveline yet, I was on the ftp site earlier today looking for the .xml files for them but they aren't there, probably later in the week if the service was registered later.
I get that, so why wouldn't NX put it on their site at the same time?
Quote from: Solo1 on August 20, 2018, 08:19:56 AM
What happens if any operator refuses to sign up to this will they be banned
from running the services they run
Hard to see how when this is a deregulated market & as has been pointed out what about cross boundary services, I'm certain Staffordshire would not want a TfWM corporate branded bus running in THEIR area
Quote from: Steveminor on August 21, 2018, 07:58:22 AM
Hard to see how when this is a deregulated market & as has been pointed out what about cross boundary services, I'm certain Staffordshire would not want a TfWM corporate branded bus running in THEIR area
Bridgnorth, Telford, Stoke on Trent and Bewdley come under the west midlands region even thou they are in Worcestershire, Staffordshire ect so prehaps First Worcester/Potteries will also get the livery.
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 21, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Bridgnorth, Telford, Stoke on Trent and Bewdley come under the west midlands region even thou they are in Worcestershire, Staffordshire ect so prehaps First Worcester/Potteries will also get the livery.
I can't realy see Shropshire, Worcestershire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire getting the livery.
The livery is being rolled out by TFWM who are a public body responsible for coordinating transport services in the West Midlands County not in the places listed above (that are part of the West Midlands region).
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 21, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Bridgnorth, Telford, Stoke on Trent and Bewdley come under the west midlands region even thou they are in Worcestershire, Staffordshire ect so prehaps First Worcester/Potteries will also get the livery.
They may come under the West Midlands Traffic area for licenses, but that's about it!
The local councils of those areas control bus services, not TfWM.
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 21, 2018, 07:54:28 PM
Bridgnorth, Telford, Stoke on Trent and Bewdley come under the west midlands region even thou they are in Worcestershire, Staffordshire ect so prehaps First Worcester/Potteries will also get the livery.
They are west midlands on the map yes, but not part of the West Midlands Combined Authority or Transport for West Mids.
I'm sure i have seen West Midlands Bus/(es) during the mid 90's before nx took over
Quote from: Ginger66 on August 23, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
I'm sure i have seen West Midlands Bus/(es) during the mid 90's before nx took over
West Midlands Travel
He may be referring to 'WM Buses.' Like on the back of this: https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7291/9356940096_52f987711d_b.jpg
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7291/9356940096_52f987711d_b.jpg)
Not forgetting 'WM Buses (Garage Name) as well.
Which was called West Midlands Travel from 1987
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 23, 2018, 09:46:33 PM
Which was called West Midlands Travel from 1987
Which still exists today as the legal name for the company, West Midlands Travel Ltd.
Quote from: Westy on August 23, 2018, 09:04:37 PM
Not forgetting 'WM Buses (Garage Name) as well.
Which was also written in full on the front of buses as well West Midlands Buses (Perry Barr).
New 31 and 32 timetable, as I expected its 32 every 10 minutes with two 31's in between so a combined frequency of every 3-4 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and every 5 minutes Sunday daytime.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/current_timetables/2018-timetables/2nd-September/Timetable3132.pdf
Anyone noted the earlier Sunday journeys?
(Also Diamond are coming all the way from Smethwick to operate those, while Nx are just down the road & dont start till around 930am! How come?)
Quote from: Westy on August 28, 2018, 07:17:53 PM
Anyone noted the earlier Sunday journeys?
(Also Diamond are coming all the way from Smethwick to operate those, while Nx are just down the road & dont start till around 930am! How come?)
TfWM tendered contract?
Quote from: Stu on August 28, 2018, 08:17:50 PM
TfWM tendered contract?
Maybe, but it still puzzles me that there's a NX depot on the route & the cheapest price for the tender(if so?) comes from a company a few miles away!
Quote from: Westy on August 28, 2018, 09:08:55 PM
Maybe, but it still puzzles me that there's a NX depot on the route & the cheapest price for the tender(if so?) comes from a company a few miles away!
Depends what else the bus does during the day.
There's No extra cost in Diamond running it, The bus would have to run from Tividale at some point in the day.
https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/301-and-302-service-changes/
Note the 'copy & paste' from the 42/43/43a information page!
By the way, what should be the equivalent info for the page linked to, that lists the NX tickets that can be bought on Diamond, as clicking the link brings up the 42 etc info, despite linking from the 31/32 page?
Quote from: SL 16 YPN on August 23, 2018, 08:56:11 PM
West Midlands Travel
During the WM Buses July 1994-October 1996 era buses at front would display West Midlands Buses.
Side logo states WM Buses Walsall
Rear would be WM Buses
Great days sadly missed.