I ran for the 82 which departs Dudley to get home from Dudley. As my bus pass had been in my pocket and as I can imagine it has happened with many others my bus pass was kind of sticky and difficult to open at which point the driver said 'come on I haven't got all f***ing day'. I was just wandering what the consequences to this will be for the driver when I ring the garage tomorrow morning to report this. Personally I believe the driver should be sacked, many may disagree, because I find it appalling that he finds it acceptable to talk to a 14 YEAR OLD in that way. I also feel this because he is an extremely unsafe driver who on many occasions has ran red lights which have been clearly red and would of had time to stop, he deliberately doesn't pick up passengers and quite often seems to have the wrong roller blind showing on a merc and wrong terminus on a digital blind.
What are your opinions and what could happen to him?
Modified to remove driver ID
Quote from: NXDom on July 02, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
I ran for the 82 which departs Dudley to get home from Dudley. As my bus pass had been in my pocket and as I can imagine it has happened with many others my bus pass was kind of sticky and difficult to open at which point the driver said 'come on I haven't got all f***ing day'. I was just wandering what the consequences to this will be for the driver when I ring the garage tomorrow morning to report this. Personally I believe the driver should be sacked, many may disagree, because I find it appalling that he finds it acceptable to talk to a 14 YEAR OLD in that way. I also feel this because he is an extremely unsafe driver who on many occasions has ran red lights which have been clearly red and would of had time to stop, he deliberately doesn't pick up passengers and quite often seems to have the wrong roller blind showing on a merc and wrong terminus on a digital blind.
What are your opinions and what could happen to him?
he should be sacked for saying " I haven't got all f***ing day"
You need to speak to Travelcare rather than the garage, then a proper investigation can begin.
Quote from: nxwmbusfan1999 on July 02, 2014, 09:20:45 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 02, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
I ran for the 82 which departs Dudley to get home from Dudley. As my bus pass had been in my pocket and as I can imagine it has happened with many others my bus pass was kind of sticky and difficult to open at which point the driver of said 'come on I haven't got all f***ing day'. I was just wandering what the consequences to this will be for the driver when I ring the garage tomorrow morning to report this. Personally I believe the driver should be sacked, many may disagree, because I find it appalling that he finds it acceptable to talk to a 14 YEAR OLD in that way. I also feel this because he is an extremely unsafe driver who on many occasions has ran red lights which have been clearly red and would of had time to stop, he deliberately doesn't pick up passengers and quite often seems to have the wrong roller blind showing on a merc and wrong terminus on a digital blind.
What are your opinions and what could happen to him?
he should be sacked for saying " I haven't got all f***ing day"
Just asking is that sarcasm obviously things can be taken the wrong way through text.
Quote from: NXDom on July 02, 2014, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: nxwmbusfan1999 on July 02, 2014, 09:20:45 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 02, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
I ran for the 82 which departs Dudley to get home from Dudley. As my bus pass had been in my pocket and as I can imagine it has happened with many others my bus pass was kind of sticky and difficult to open at which point the driver of said 'come on I haven't got all f***ing day'. I was just wandering what the consequences to this will be for the driver when I ring the garage tomorrow morning to report this. Personally I believe the driver should be sacked, many may disagree, because I find it appalling that he finds it acceptable to talk to a 14 YEAR OLD in that way. I also feel this because he is an extremely unsafe driver who on many occasions has ran red lights which have been clearly red and would of had time to stop, he deliberately doesn't pick up passengers and quite often seems to have the wrong roller blind showing on a merc and wrong terminus on a digital blind.
What are your opinions and what could happen to him?
he should be sacked for saying " I haven't got all f***ing day"
Just asking is that sarcasm obviously things can be taken the wrong way through text.
That's not sarcasm it's rude and impolite for somebody in there position to act that way,there the face of the company would you board a bus if all the drivers responded that way i wouldn't?
Quote from: pb2012 on July 02, 2014, 09:32:43 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 02, 2014, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: nxwmbusfan1999 on July 02, 2014, 09:20:45 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 02, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
I ran for the 82 which departs Dudley to get home from Dudley. As my bus pass had been in my pocket and as I can imagine it has happened with many others my bus pass was kind of sticky and difficult to open at which point the driver of said 'come on I haven't got all f***ing day'. I was just wandering what the consequences to this will be for the driver when I ring the garage tomorrow morning to report this. Personally I believe the driver should be sacked, many may disagree, because I find it appalling that he finds it acceptable to talk to a 14 YEAR OLD in that way. I also feel this because he is an extremely unsafe driver who on many occasions has ran red lights which have been clearly red and would of had time to stop, he deliberately doesn't pick up passengers and quite often seems to have the wrong roller blind showing on a merc and wrong terminus on a digital blind.
What are your opinions and what could happen to him?
he should be sacked for saying " I haven't got all f***ing day"
Just asking is that sarcasm obviously things can be taken the wrong way through text.
That's not sarcasm it's rude and impolite for somebody in there position to act that way,there the face of the company would you board a bus if all the drivers responded that way i wouldn't?
Well of course not my apologies. Some people need to learn that just because we use the bus doesn't mean we are always ready. I ran from wilkos in dudley down to the gardens just to get spoken to like that.
Please do not post anything like this that identifies drivers. I have modified the posts above for that reason. Staff of any company do not get disciplined through the internet. If you think someone has done something wrong report it to the company who can investigate fairly.
For all anyone knows on here you could just want to get revenge and all the above is lies (I am not accusing you of that) and it is grossly unfair someones colleagues could read it before the company even knows about it
Whilst I agree he should be dismissed or severely disciplined for showing such a poor attitude, unfortunately without evidence of wrongdoing NX will not be able to take any action. I don't know whether NX have microphones in their cabs; if this bus has one it could be useful in obtaining evidence.
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 09:48:50 PM
Whilst I agree he should be dismissed or severely disciplined for showing such a poor attitude, unfortunately without evidence of wrongdoing NX will not be able to take any action. I don't know whether NX have microphones in their cabs; if this bus has one it could be useful in obtaining evidence.
@Matt I bloody hope so it is unfair on passengers that drivers can near enough say what ever the hell they want and get away with it. I pay the money for my bus passes I'd expect just a little sign of respect. I show respect to every driver I have by saying thank you when leaving and also when boarding, but in all honesty he was the first driver i've never said thank you to when getting off!
Well, that's hearsay. Anyone could create a story like this. Not saying you are lying but understand where I am coming from. Without evidence, your case isn't strong enough for NXWM to conduct an investigation. I understand that at the time, it was unexpected, so no device you could use to obtain evidence.
However, I am sorry to hear about this, the driver should not have spoken to you in that manner. Drivers who have a bad day will be likely to act in an undesirable manner. It is dangerous that he continues to drive through the red lights, I'm surprised there are no accidents happened relating to him.
If that driver has that kind of attitude every day then the job isn't right for him.
Do get in touch with Travelcare (0121 254 7272) to discuss this further if you feel you should.
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 09:48:50 PM
Whilst I agree he should be dismissed or severely disciplined for showing such a poor attitude, unfortunately without evidence of wrongdoing NX will not be able to take any action. I don't know whether NX have microphones in their cabs; if this bus has one it could be useful in obtaining evidence.
Microphones in cabs? What about the drivers rights? He's not a machine.
Sorry but, it may be the age gap etc but grow some balls. If an adult in my day said that, then by Joe you do as your told! Bah, kids now a days.
And if the driver is found guilty, he'll be sentenced to life...
...driving for Diamond.
Please tell me how microphones in cabs infringes drivers' rights. A driver should never need to say anything in a cab that he might not want his seniors to hear.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 02, 2014, 10:26:21 PM
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 09:48:50 PM
Whilst I agree he should be dismissed or severely disciplined for showing such a poor attitude, unfortunately without evidence of wrongdoing NX will not be able to take any action. I don't know whether NX have microphones in their cabs; if this bus has one it could be useful in obtaining evidence.
Microphones in cabs? What about the drivers rights? He's not a machine.
Sorry but, it may be the age gap etc but grow some balls. If an adult in my day said that, then by Joe you do as your told! Bah, kids now a days.
And if the driver is found guilty, he'll be sentenced to life...
...driving for Diamond.
In my experience at the moment Diamond drivers are far smarter and more personable than anyone I have encountered on NX for a good while.
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 10:37:41 PM
Please tell me how microphones in cabs infringes drivers' rights. A driver should never need to say anything in a cab that he might not want his seniors to hear.
Nobody wants to spend every waking minute at work being monitored and analysed. I don't know your age but I'm assuming you haven't been working very long. It's a culture thing that young people in their first jobs today unfortunately accept this kind of stuff as standard and unquestionable.
@Matt surely drivers have human rights too?
The use of intrusive or directed surveillance, or covert intelligence sources, by public bodies ONLY is regulated under Part II of RIPA. This covers a wide rainge of surveillance activity, from covertly following a person or watching a person, placing secret listening or filming devices near him, or using informants to obtain information about him.
In fact Matt, I challenge you to find any kind of legislation that would allow NXWM, or any other operator, to put microphones in cabs to spy on drivers
Accepted the points of privacy for the drivers etc....
But surely you can't be excusing someone working in a public service job to behave like that to their public?
Quote from: Kevin on July 02, 2014, 10:50:55 PM
Accepted the points of privacy for the drivers etc....
But surely you can't be excusing someone working in a public service job to behave like that to their public?
I don't think anybody was.
Playing Devils Advocate, could the driver have a reason to be upset, could another passenger who boarded have tried to fare evade, could the op, playing extreme devils advocate, have provoked him, could he be running late?
As for the destination displays, again playing devils advocate, could the driver have been rushing due so lateness, or have simply forgotten to change it?
I can't quite believe what I'm reading here. Sorry, but microphones infringing drivers rights? What a load of rubbish.
@the trainbasher let's see some legislation that prevents NX from placing microphones in their cabs. They would not be "secret" as drivers would be fully aware of their presence.
@andy it seems almost common sense that such a high profile company as NX would have methods in place to prevent episodes like this from occuring. They would obviously not be constantly analysed, as recordings would only need to be retrieved when a claim of wrongdoing is made against a driver, which would not be a common occurence.
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:03:25 PM
I can't quite believe what I'm reading here.
@the trainbasher let's see some legislation that prevents NX from placing microphones in their cabs. They would not be "secret" as drivers would be fully aware of their presence.
@andy it seems almost common sense that such a high profile company as NX would have methods in place to prevent episodes like this from occuring. They would obviously not be constantly analysed, as recordings would only need to be retrieved when a claim of wrongdoing is made against a driver, which would not be a common occurance.
Unfortunately Matt these tools are rarely used for what they were intended for. If you work in a shop, nobody is recording your voice. If you work in a factory, nobody is. In an office. The list goes on. So why should a driver find it acceptable for some unknown member of staff to have permanent access to everything that he/she says and does? We are all far too willing these days to accept excessive intrusion. I fully understand the need for cameras facing outwards to protect against insurance scams etc but I can't see any justification atall for cameras or microphones in the cab.
@MattRegulation of Investigatory Powers Act
Article 8 of the Convention on Human Rights
Human Rights Act
In fact there is a case in the European Court of Human Rights.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_rights_at_work_e/monitoring_at_work.htm
There is a difference between monitoring and violation of human rights, i understand both sides of the argument and personally i wouldn't want to be recorded but it could work both ways. i.e someone making a false claim....
@the trainbasher that article has 54 pages, where exactly am I looking?
@andy I see your point, but as I already said, a driver should never need to say anything in the cab of a bus that he would not want anybody else to hear. One would hope that senior management at NX would use the tool for only its intended purposes, but regardless, if a driver has nothing to hide he has nothing to worry about.
I can't say I agree with the idea of microphones. Being constantly recorded throughout your working life doesn't bear thinking about. Many years ago I worked in a call centre and having every single call recorded was bad enough, to be constantly recorded every minute of every day is just wrong.
Drivers are subject to intimidation, threats, abuse etc and every now and then it's only human nature that they will react and maybe say something in the heat of the moment. Is it right that microphone evidence could then be used by the company to discipline them? I don't think so.
Besides, would a cab microphone pick up abuse shouted from the back of a bus by a chav, or obscene hand gestures? No, but it would pick up anything the driver might say in return and he'd not have a leg to stand on.
Surveillance on buses should be used to ensure the safety of all on board, not yet another means of making an already challenging job harder still.
@Matt ok, let's turn it so the boots is on the other foot.
You're at work, they have installed all sorts of surveillance equipment, including microphones to capture everything you say whilst at your desk. Hell, they could even listen to what you discuss with colleagues during your lunch break?
Would you or would you not feel like your privacy was being invaded?
Now turn it onto the bus driver...
@Mike K I hasten to agree with you
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:21:23 PM
@the trainbasher that article has 54 pages, where exactly am I looking?
@andy I see your point, but as I already said, a driver should never need to say anything in the cab of a bus that he would not want anybody else to hear. One would hope that senior management at NX would use the tool for only its intended purposes, but regardless, if a driver has nothing to hide he has nothing to worry about.
Fine, but what justification for having them? I haven't seen a convincing one. If you are concerned about what drivers say to passengers you are better off tackling the problem at its root causes than relying on a stick to beat with.
@andy indeed, we need to be tough on crime on buses, tough on the causes of crime on buses.
*sigh* You're missing the point
@the trainbasher. Drivers do not spend their lunch breaks in the cab of a bus. I'm going to have to repeat this for a third time now.
Drivers should never need say anything in the cab of a bus that they would not want their superiors to hear.
I also sincerely doubt there is anything in that article that would prevent the installation of microphones in bus cabs.
@andy it is tackling the problem at its roots, as the knowledge that his voice is being recorded would alter a drivers behaviour, as he would be unable to "get away" with saying certain things which otherwise he could.
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:32:31 PM
@andy it is tackling the problem at its roots, as the knowledge that his voice is being recorded would alter a drivers behaviour, as he would be unable to "get away" with saying certain things which otherwise he could.
What I'm talking about is the driver's attitude in the first place, tackling what creates that rather than waiting until there is an issue and punishing it.
Quote from: andy on July 02, 2014, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:32:31 PM
@andy it is tackling the problem at its roots, as the knowledge that his voice is being recorded would alter a drivers behaviour, as he would be unable to "get away" with saying certain things which otherwise he could.
What I'm talking about is the driver's attitude in the first place, tackling what creates that rather than waiting until there is an issue and punishing it.
Any individual drivers with a problemental attitude must be identified before steps can be taken to rectify it. Evidence from microphones would enable the identification of such drivers.
Quote from: Mattwith saying certain things which allegedly they otherwise could.
Notice the bold bit that I've added in that section above...
Also yes
@Matt they don't
always have lunch in their cab, it depends on the operator and also remember layovers some drivers sit in their cab. Hypothetically, if you was a driver, would you like a manager listening to you whilst on the phone to say a partner, or even a prospective future employer, whilst the engine is off etc? Or even managers listening to you having a chat to a driver from another operator.
And on that note I will leave this discussion for a bit...
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 02, 2014, 11:39:07 PM
Quote from: Mattwith saying certain things which allegedly they otherwise could.
Notice the bold bit that I've added in that section above...
Also yes @Matt they don't always have lunch in their cab, it depends on the operator and also remember layovers some drivers sit in their cab. Hypothetically, if you was a driver, would you like a manager listening to you whilst on the phone to say a partner, or even a prospective future employer, whilst the engine is off etc? Or even managers listening to you having a chat to a driver from another operator.
Phones on NX buses only to be used on back seat or off the bus
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:38:53 PM
Quote from: andy on July 02, 2014, 11:35:04 PM
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:32:31 PM
@andy it is tackling the problem at its roots, as the knowledge that his voice is being recorded would alter a drivers behaviour, as he would be unable to "get away" with saying certain things which otherwise he could.
What I'm talking about is the driver's attitude in the first place, tackling what creates that rather than waiting until there is an issue and punishing it.
Any individual drivers with a problemental attitude must be identified before steps can be taken to rectify it. Evidence from microphones would enable the identification of such drivers.
You don't do that with microphones, you do it with managers who actually deal and interact with their staff instead of locking themselves in a bunker staring at e mails and surveylance.
id say before you start your crusade take consideration in your part - it is extremely hot today cab of a bus not pleasent. you ran for the bus and so therefore you didnt allow yourself time to be ready pass out to board the bus.
the driver shouldn't get arsey true, but they are human just like you, and the pressures of the job can get you wound up and stressed out. you faffing about with your pass holding bus up adding to it. id bet if say 20 previous passengers boarding did the same easily making bus driver late, and you were late getting somewhere, then you's be moaning still.
my answer is try doing the job yourself one day. its amazing how many people go into thinking sitting there is a doddle, but soon crack and cant hack it. you sound to me one of these types of people who is always in the right. having more cameras and microphones to record the driver would create uproar as if i was a driver having to work with that under threat of my every word being monitored - id demand every bit of abuse be taken action against!
complain to the bus company if need be, but adding extra bits like the driver never displays correct destination, jumps red lights etc on a public forum is not the thing to do. if he/she kept jumping red lights they wouldnt be still there. could it be driver goes through on the change, and whole bus dont make it through etc?
It's like trying to explain calculus to a 5-year-old in Disneyland on here sometimes.
@the trainbasher firstly, NX do not allow their drivers to use the phone in the cab. Secondly, I would not be stupid enough to discuss opportunities with other employers when effectively within earshot of my current employer. Thirdly, why would a manager have any interest in listening to one side of a romantic phone conversation?
It all boils down to the same rule. You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.
I give up...
...[bangs head on side of NXWM bus]
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 02, 2014, 11:51:27 PM
I give up...
...[bangs head on side of NXWM bus]
Only two pages too late!
It's like trying to explain calculus to a 5-year-old in Disneyland on here sometimes.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the pub.
From what i've read of this, it seems like there's two views;
1.It's fine to be watched/ recorded etc.
2. Everyone has Human rights, to be recorded/ watched for no good reason is too much.
This is how it seems, view one belongs to those too young to have worked yet, or worked to put dinner on the table as a pose to pcket money, and view 2 belong to those that have worked for good a few years, some in the industry, others not (me included)
Whilst it sounds a sensible idea, put yourself in the drivers shoes, then the job of a driver sounds vile.
Big brother is always watching.
NX are well known too be too strict and over the top as it is with handing out P45's, don't give them any ideas to stick bloody microphones in the cab!
I wonder what passengers would think if there were microphones in the saloons?
@Matt, I'm going to record every word you ever say, ever. Regardless whats happened to you. You're only allowed to express positive emotions, words, tone of voice must be chirpy and welcoming.
Welcome to hell.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 01:35:27 AM
Big brother is always watching.
NX are well known too be too strict and over the top as it is with handing out P45's, don't give them any ideas to stick bloody microphones in the cab!
I wonder what passengers would think if there were microphones in the saloons?
@Matt, I'm going to record every word you ever say, ever. Regardless whats happened to you. You're only allowed to express positive emotions, words, tone of voice must be chirpy and welcoming.
Welcome to hell.
Microphones are in vehicles on the NX coach network
Quote from: bususer12 on July 03, 2014, 01:24:13 AM
From what i've read of this, it seems like there's two views;
1.It's fine to be watched/ recorded etc.
2. Everyone has Human rights, to be recorded/ watched for no good reason is too much.
This is how it seems, view one belongs to those too young to have worked yet, or worked to put dinner on the table as a pose to pcket money, and view 2 belong to those that have worked for good a few years, some in the industry, others not (me included)
Whilst it sounds a sensible idea, put yourself in the drivers shoes, then the job of a driver sounds vile.
Incorrect.
I know of "older" people who share view 1, and "younger" people who share view 2.
Basically, everyone has their own view, and doesn't like to hear the other persons view.
I agree with both sides, but for fear of getting ripped apart by people with blinkered views on both sides I do not want to share my own views
From a 17 year old's perspective,Personally if I were a driver I would not be too best pleased about having a microphone recording me all day - it would feel intrusive and undermines the trust of the company that you can do the job correctly. One incident like this does not justify a fleet-wide fitting of microphones in the cabs. Many of the drivers at NX are honest, hard working people who safely transport thousands of people each week. I have encountered some excellent NX drivers at YW and AG, who would not deserve this infringement - I am yet to encounter I am pleased to say a driver who is abusive towards passengers. It is a tough job and therefore it is no surprised that occasionally a driver will become quite annoyed with a passenger quite easily - such as in this case. As far as we know the driver could have had a bad day, perhaps family wise as well such as coping with a bereavement. It would be personally a little harsh and heavy handed to fire the driver (if he can be punished anyway) - he only said "I haven't got all day" (could be taken as a minor remark) except with the f word inserted; it's not exactly abusing the customer directly e.g **** you - perhaps a simple warning would suffice if anything was to come of this.
One particular problem is the employer themselves. In this day and age employers give less and less of a shit, so if there was such thing as mics in cabs, they wouldn't care to check the personal situation their staff were in, they'd just act on an isolated incident
Why was my post deleted?! Am I not allowed to agree with someone's opinion? The driver shouldn't have said that he said, but put yourself in his shoes, he has a hard job. Dom has the right to report him if he feels the need to
Quote from: Ex BC driver on July 03, 2014, 02:00:59 AM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 01:35:27 AM
Big brother is always watching.
NX are well known too be too strict and over the top as it is with handing out P45's, don't give them any ideas to stick bloody microphones in the cab!
I wonder what passengers would think if there were microphones in the saloons?
@Matt, I'm going to record every word you ever say, ever. Regardless whats happened to you. You're only allowed to express positive emotions, words, tone of voice must be chirpy and welcoming.
Welcome to hell.
Microphones are in vehicles on the NX coach network
And in most cases I've known have actually worked in support of the driver - to prove they were innocent of such claims etc. They also come in useful, for example, after an accident/claim to prove the driver played the safety CD/advised passengers to wear seatbelts.
I also think "microhones in the cab" sounds much more intrusive than "CCTV with sound recording".
I think for a system like it to work, you've got to rely on the system being used probably - only for the purposes of proving complaints/crime etc. and for managers to not be petty regarding more 'trivial' matters.
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:32:31 PM
*sigh* You're missing the point @the trainbasher. Drivers do not spend their lunch breaks in the cab of a bus. I'm going to have to repeat this for a third time now. Drivers should never need say anything in the cab of a bus that they would not want their superiors to hear.
I also sincerely doubt there is anything in that article that would prevent the installation of microphones in bus cabs.
@andy it is tackling the problem at its roots, as the knowledge that his voice is being recorded would alter a drivers behaviour, as he would be unable to "get away" with saying certain things which otherwise he could.
You have travelled on my bus when I have been driving. At the terminus when the bus is stationary and switched off you have come and spoken to me whil I have still been sat in the cab. I might say something to a friend that I cenrtainly wouldn't say to a passenger can a microphone diferrentiate?
Quote from: Tony on July 03, 2014, 11:12:04 AM
Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2014, 11:32:31 PM
*sigh* You're missing the point @the trainbasher. Drivers do not spend their lunch breaks in the cab of a bus. I'm going to have to repeat this for a third time now. Drivers should never need say anything in the cab of a bus that they would not want their superiors to hear.
I also sincerely doubt there is anything in that article that would prevent the installation of microphones in bus cabs.
@andy it is tackling the problem at its roots, as the knowledge that his voice is being recorded would alter a drivers behaviour, as he would be unable to "get away" with saying certain things which otherwise he could.
You have travelled on my bus when I have been driving. At the terminus when the bus is stationary and switched off you have come and spoken to me whil I have still been sat in the cab. I might say something to a friend that I cenrtainly wouldn't say to a passenger can a microphone diferrentiate?
I agree with you Tony you should be able to speak freely and no a Microphone can't.
But I throw this ball in to the court, mainly to drivers and ex drivers and the rest of us, what if there was an attack on a bus would it not be safer to have a microphone or microphones which are activeted by the driver in the cab with a set word that if he or she says will record with sound what the cctv cameras are filming.
For example the driver sees a passenger looking shifty with a bag as they enter the bus, for this its a single decker, the driver can still see the passenger in the rear view mirror chunttering; the driver knows the cab platform and saloon have microphones that s/he can activate. So s/he does and it alerts control room to a problem on board the bus which could put the driver and other passengers in great danger. The control room can see where the bus is and get police to meet the bus to stop anything happening, worst case seniro I know but 7/7 has proven it to be true in a City, best case is the passenger is no threat at all. The bus company appoligies and gives that person free travel for the shock shame and hurt; if not the a bus load of people are safe from evil.
If I was a driver or even an Owner of a bus company I know what I'd do. I wouldn't change anyones life and I wouldn't purposely listen into my staff but I would want them to be safe as possible.
I still can't believe anyone would actually support this. You're all bloody brainwashed to make it seem that its OK to be sound and video recorded 24/7.
Back to my earlier point, how would passengers feel about microphones in the saloons? Everything everybody has ever said would be recorded.
You're all too scared to say what you really think. Why? If the press wasn't controlled in such way you'll all be less desensitized to what's actually happening around you. You lot are being blinded and brainwashed by the government. See though the shit you're being fed.
Or we can just say bollocks to it... lets all fit Microchips in our necks with tracking, 360 degree cameras and sound recording.
You'll be better off in prison.
@Mike K,
@andy,
@Winston,
@Tony,
@Matt,
@Kevin
Going back to the original question by NXDom, even though the swearing was not directed at you as such, it's still an example of poor customer service, and as customers I think that poor service should be reported. The company should be aware that members of their staff are not acting in the manor expected of them. Stick to the facts of the incident, and not mention anything that may or may not have happened with that driver in the past. They can then do with your information and complaint as they see fit or appropriate.
I work in a customer facing role and feedback is so important as to what we do right and wrong.
Im going to throw my two pence in...
As someone who had to support himself throw uni and get a job in retail. I no the importance of customer service. And under know circumstance would we be allowed to swear at a customer. However this didn't stop us wanting too. Quite frankly customers in any sector can be absolute w*****s and the pressure of this constantly can take its strain. Who hear isn't guilty of loosing their temper at someone who probably didn't deserve it?
You also have to consider what complaints do for the recipient. If this gentleman in question has a family to support. Mortgage etc... How is he supposed to support. It's extremely hard out their to get a job with an unblemished record let alone with a dismissal.
Im in no way justifying what has happened to Dom. It's disgusting. But other than shock or hard feelings what's the real effect. Chances are that the driver regretted what he said and had just been having a bad day at the office.
With regards to the voice recording systems. As much as I can see the argument for and against. It seems like we already live in a big brother society. I wouldn't have a recorder put under my desk at work. It takes away free speech which we are all entitled to. Lets not get to a place in this country in the modern western world where we feel censored. Because over the decades people have fought for that freedom of speech. Let's not take that away.
Don't believe original complaint sorry
I work for a company that has had CCTV and microphones fitted to its vehicles for the last six years. The images and voice recordings are only viewed or listened to if a issue comes to light. As long as your doing nothing wrong I don't see there is a problem, its there to help and in my experience shows the person making the complaint or claim to be in the wrong or being far from truthful.
Crikey, if the driver said that he needs re-training at the very least.
The matter ought to be reported because the company shouldn't be allowing people to interface with the public like that. As for the traffic law transgressions, those could be picked up from the on vehicle recordings. Suffice to say the driver is in charge of a large, heavy potentially lethal weapon - running red lights is off the scale in terms of transgressions - the driver's also in charge of his passengers (customers).
Put it another way - if you got such alleged rude and deplorable service from a supermarket and saw their staff, for instance, blatantly selling alcohol to under age people, what would you do? I would not shop there again and report them for illegal behaviour.
Sorry to all the pro drivers and NXWM fans/employees on here but it's as simple as that. (and I'm a huge bus fan and NXWM fan)!!
Back in the 70s this sort of behaviour was commonplace - indeed I was once traveling on a BCT Fleetline on the 24 in Colmore Row and outside the Birmingham City Council offices (yes it's an ancient story from the days when buses went through Victoria Sq and New St) the driver stopped in the middle of the road leapt out of his cab and ran down the road and took a flying kick at the drivers door of the car in front!!!) the one that got me most riled was the Bristol Road guys at Navigation St who would close the doors and drive off as soon as a gaggle of passengers walking from the city centre got within a couple of yards of them. This was a standard occurrence!!!
So thank The Lord for better standards of driving, customer care and on bus monitoring these days. Buses were lethal back then and occasional bad apples should indeed be reported.
I do believe the original complainant, i cannot see someone coming on a public forum and telling us what happened if it didn't happen, what would be the point.
The only problem is how to prove it. Microphones in the cab have been suggested, but that has been dismissed because of privacy issues. So then why do drivers allow themselves to be filmed on CCTV? Surely that is against privacy laws as well. The drivers will say it is to help prevent them getting attacked, well you can't have things all ways, if the drivers want CCTV then microphones in the cab should also be allowed. After all, occurances like this are very infrequent, it is usually the drivers that are on the receiving end of bad language, threats etc and this could help catch the people responsible.
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 03, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
I do believe the original complainant, i cannot see someone coming on a public forum and telling us what happened if it didn't happen, what would be the point.
Well if you have been following this fantastic forum since
@Tony started it there have been countless times when people have told us something that happened that didn't happen!
Are we not all missing the point here? In the first post the driver was accused of regularly running red lights and missing stops - surely far more serious than a bit of f-ing and blinding?
Quote from: wilmotm (Matt Wilmot) on July 03, 2014, 06:59:22 PM
Quote from: Stuharris 6360 on July 03, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
I do believe the original complainant, i cannot see someone coming on a public forum and telling us what happened if it didn't happen, what would be the point.
Well if you have been following this fantastic forum since @Tony started it there have been countless times when people have told us something that happened that didn't happen!
Ok, so when a GRS driver abused someone for not travelling on the GRS246 (see GRS thread), did everyone leap up in the defence on the driver, no they didn't. Once again, no proof the incident happened, but because it was GRS, everyone assumed it had happened. Now because it is National Express, everyone starts to assume that the driver is correct and the complainant is lying.
Quote from: Stevo on July 03, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Are we not all missing the point here? In the first post the driver was accused of regularly running red lights and missing stops - surely far more serious than a bit of f-ing and blinding?
I'm not saying he is lying BUT..... If the driver runs red lights & misses stops on a regular occurance, why hasn't
@NXDom reported him in the past ? Is he only interested now because something was said to him ?
Sorry
@NXDom not a personal attack just a question
If the driver is this bad and doing that many things wrong I'm sure other passengers would have complained before now and he would have been investigated then there's CCTV on buses newer buses outside CCTV to
Not necessarily - it takes a lot for most people to put pen to paper or to complain on the internet. Not all PCV drivers are squeaky clean so let's not kid ourselves. Most are however.
What needs to happen is the OP needs to put a line under this and forget about it. We've had only the one side of the story and for all we know the driver may have had mitigating circumstances. Alternatively the OP, or the person before him, may have failed the attitude test so that's why the driver may have been annoyed.
Otherwise it may have been a misinterpretation on the OPs behalf. Enough said.
National Express have enough ways of checking the quality of their drivers if they suspect someone is not up to scratch. One off swearing at a passenger is obviously hard to check out after the event, but drivers who 'run red lights and miss stops regularly' can easily be checked. Running red lights can and has led to dismissals, so It is unlikely any complaints about that have been received as the external video cameras can easily pick that up. Missing stops, again easily proven by both the external or the internal camera in the cab. Traffilog which is fitted to every bus in the fleet and works on over 99% of them also shows exactly which stops are made, speed, and general driving quality. Any complaints about speeding, bad cornering or generally giving passengers a bad ride can be checked on traffilog.
Early running is easily identifiable off both Traffilog and the AVL system. If all else fails, plain clothes staff are put on buses to watch driving quality
So NXDom if this driver is as bad as you make out, put a complaint in. Don't just say 'he regularly misses stops out & runs red lights' give a specific example and I am sure NX will check it out, or if it is someone you just have a personal problem with don't just post it on here again
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
I still can't believe anyone would actually support this. You're all bloody brainwashed to make it seem that its OK to be sound and video recorded 24/7.
Back to my earlier point, how would passengers feel about microphones in the saloons? Everything everybody has ever said would be recorded.
You're all too scared to say what you really think. Why? If the press wasn't controlled in such way you'll all be less desensitized to what's actually happening around you. You lot are being blinded and brainwashed by the government. See though the shit you're being fed.
Or we can just say bollocks to it... lets all fit Microchips in our necks with tracking, 360 degree cameras and sound recording.
You'll be better off in prison.
Already here, LS - it's called Google Glass. Audio/video recording is a feature. And it's coming to a bus near you ........ :-X
Quote from: Andrew on July 02, 2014, 11:41:38 PM
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 02, 2014, 11:39:07 PM
Quote from: Mattwith saying certain things which allegedly they otherwise could.
Notice the bold bit that I've added in that section above...
Also yes @Matt they don't always have lunch in their cab, it depends on the operator and also remember layovers some drivers sit in their cab. Hypothetically, if you was a driver, would you like a manager listening to you whilst on the phone to say a partner, or even a prospective future employer, whilst the engine is off etc? Or even managers listening to you having a chat to a driver from another operator.
Phones on NX buses only to be used on back seat or off the bus
Back seat? Lol
Some individuals including Matt clearly believes we should embrace the "big brother" society as the best thing ever. It's the total opposite. The vast majority of society simply talks b******s but I'm not afraid to say what I think
In my now newish job my every word or action is monitored by my superiors however it's only me thats singled out for a thick ear.
Anyway, my point is, no microphones in the workplace especially to try and catch bus drivers out when 99.9 percent of bus drivers are sound individuals who I admire and respect for the professionalism they retain despite all the occupational hazards.
The phrase "you've nothing to fear if you've nothing to hide" is a good way of avoiding admitting the person who trots out the phrase is just a nosey f****r who thinks we should watch our backs and all behave like obedient dogs
Going back to the original point, we all say things we don't mean in the heat of the moment, all I'm saying is don't take it personally, the best outcome would be to remain polite and courteous to the driver to distinguish yourself from other 14 year old's who use buses (chavvy urchuns). As for destination blinds being incorrect, people would immediately notice and question a vehicles destination. As for running red lights, if the bus is half way over the white line when the light changes from amber to red I'm sure you'd soon put a claim for whiplash for sharp braking etc. As for neglecting to pick up passengers, how could you be certain that intending passengers want your bus or if they don't how do you know they haven't made the driver aware of their intentions no matter where they stand on the pavement
Apoligies to the admin team for the poor choice of words but some may see my logic and that's all I'm saying
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
I still can't believe anyone would actually support this. You're all bloody brainwashed to make it seem that its OK to be sound and video recorded 24/7.
Back to my earlier point, how would passengers feel about microphones in the saloons? Everything everybody has ever said would be recorded.
You're all too scared to say what you really think. Why? If the press wasn't controlled in such way you'll all be less desensitized to what's actually happening around you. You lot are being blinded and brainwashed by the government. See though the shit you're being fed.
Or we can just say bollocks to it... lets all fit Microchips in our necks with tracking, 360 degree cameras and sound recording.
You'll be better off in prison.
@Mike K, @andy, @Winston, @Tony, @Matt, @Kevin
I'll assume the tag isn't a personal attack....
Never have been "scared to say what I really think", the only fear is of retaliation from people who do not like others having a different view
Quote from: Kevin on July 03, 2014, 10:24:07 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
I still can't believe anyone would actually support this. You're all bloody brainwashed to make it seem that its OK to be sound and video recorded 24/7.
Back to my earlier point, how would passengers feel about microphones in the saloons? Everything everybody has ever said would be recorded.
You're all too scared to say what you really think. Why? If the press wasn't controlled in such way you'll all be less desensitized to what's actually happening around you. You lot are being blinded and brainwashed by the government. See though the shit you're being fed.
Or we can just say bollocks to it... lets all fit Microchips in our necks with tracking, 360 degree cameras and sound recording.
You'll be better off in prison.
@Mike K, @andy, @Winston, @Tony, @Matt, @Kevin
I'll assume the tag isn't a personal attack....
Never have been "scared to say what I really think", the only fear is of retaliation from people who do not like others having a different view
Hear hear.
I put my view across in the way that I felt. Not in a way that would make me feel as not to cause upset but as I see it. And NXDom and co who say its against your civil rights to privagy law thingy ma jig, I would say this don't ever speak to a Police man or woman or a CSO, CPSO , SC as you are recorded in case of you or the officer not playing ball or saying something wrong.
So on that note what dif does it make when you have that and google nike and others making wear able tech with microphones to put them into public transport. In my veiw its short sighted not to.
Fear is stronger than hope, hope is better than fear.
Quote from: Andrew on July 03, 2014, 07:18:00 PM
Quote from: Stevo on July 03, 2014, 07:01:39 PM
Are we not all missing the point here? In the first post the driver was accused of regularly running red lights and missing stops - surely far more serious than a bit of f-ing and blinding?
I'm not saying he is lying BUT..... If the driver runs red lights & misses stops on a regular occurance, why hasn't @NXDom reported him in the past ? Is he only interested now because something was said to him ?
Sorry @NXDom not a personal attack just a question
Thank you mate I did think you tried to aim it at me :)
Quote from: don on July 03, 2014, 06:47:45 PM
Back in the 70s this sort of behaviour was commonplace - indeed I was once traveling on a BCT Fleetline on the 24 in Colmore Row and outside the Birmingham City Council offices (yes it's an ancient story from the days when buses went through Victoria Sq and New St) the driver stopped in the middle of the road leapt out of his cab and ran down the road and took a flying kick at the drivers door of the car in front!!!) the one that got me most riled was the Bristol Road guys at Navigation St who would close the doors and drive off as soon as a gaggle of passengers walking from the city centre got within a couple of yards of them. This was a standard occurrence!!!.
Hahahahaha, good fun! I remember it well. Leaving the group of passengers for the poor bloke behind, absolutely hilarious. Regular thing many years ago to get your own back on the prat who refused to buy me breakfast ;) Love the job back then.
Quote from: Kevin on July 03, 2014, 10:24:07 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
I still can't believe anyone would actually support this. You're all bloody brainwashed to make it seem that its OK to be sound and video recorded 24/7.
Back to my earlier point, how would passengers feel about microphones in the saloons? Everything everybody has ever said would be recorded.
You're all too scared to say what you really think. Why? If the press wasn't controlled in such way you'll all be less desensitized to what's actually happening around you. You lot are being blinded and brainwashed by the government. See though the shit you're being fed.
Or we can just say bollocks to it... lets all fit Microchips in our necks with tracking, 360 degree cameras and sound recording.
You'll be better off in prison.
@Mike K, @andy, @Winston, @Tony, @Matt, @Kevin
I'll assume the tag isn't a personal attack....
Never have been "scared to say what I really think", the only fear is of retaliation from people who do not like others having a different view
No Kevin, no personal attacks just making sure you read my post.
Fear of retaliation? Screw them! It's not your fault they can't listen to the other side of the story.
Quote from: Ossie on July 03, 2014, 08:46:18 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 03, 2014, 03:47:04 PM
I still can't believe anyone would actually support this. You're all bloody brainwashed to make it seem that its OK to be sound and video recorded 24/7.
Back to my earlier point, how would passengers feel about microphones in the saloons? Everything everybody has ever said would be recorded.
You're all too scared to say what you really think. Why? If the press wasn't controlled in such way you'll all be less desensitized to what's actually happening around you. You lot are being blinded and brainwashed by the government. See though the shit you're being fed.
Or we can just say bollocks to it... lets all fit Microchips in our necks with tracking, 360 degree cameras and sound recording.
You'll be better off in prison.
Already here, LS - it's called Google Glass. Audio/video recording is a feature. And it's coming to a bus near you ........ :-X
Oh blimey... just googled it. So I expect this is standard across the Specsavers range then haha
Quote from: karl724223 on July 03, 2014, 06:28:39 PM
Don't believe original complaint sorry
Ok, can you inform me as to why?
Not going to bother wasting my time on this one
Quote from: karl724223 on July 04, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
Not going to bother wasting my time on this one
Karl you're only trying to wind me up so just shut up, where you there? NO! If you don't believe me fine by you don't need to be such an area about it!
Quote from: the trainbasher on July 04, 2014, 09:43:32 PM
@NXDom and breath.
It just winds me up, he doesn't need to be such an are hole (I would use stronger but chhose not to!)
Quote from: NXDom on July 04, 2014, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on July 04, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
Not going to bother wasting my time on this one
Karl you're only trying to wind me up so just shut up, where you there? NO! If you don't believe me fine by you don't need to be such an area about it!
Actually, I don't believe the complaint either.
I reckon, you've added a swear word in there as it gives you something to complain about.
No I wasn't there, but without proof........ ;)
@karl724223
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 04, 2014, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 04, 2014, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on July 04, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
Not going to bother wasting my time on this one
Karl you're only trying to wind me up so just shut up, where you there? NO! If you don't believe me fine by you don't need to be such an area about it!
Actually, I don't believe the complaint either.
I reckon, you've added a swear word in there as it gives you something to complain about.
No I wasn't there, but without proof........ ;)
@karl724223
Ok then I don't mean to be rude but why would I make this up? For example if one of your children came home and said something similar to what I had but with no proof would you not belive them?
In addition to that I believe that could be precived as a personal attack as your saying that I am being slanderous to the company, that I believe is a breech of the rules.
Quote from: NXDom on July 04, 2014, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 04, 2014, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 04, 2014, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on July 04, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
Not going to bother wasting my time on this one
Karl you're only trying to wind me up so just shut up, where you there? NO! If you don't believe me fine by you don't need to be such an area about it!
Actually, I don't believe the complaint either.
I reckon, you've added a swear word in there as it gives you something to complain about.
No I wasn't there, but without proof........ ;)
@karl724223
Ok then I don't mean to be rude but why would I make this up? For example if one of your children came home and said something similar to what I had but with no proof would you not belive them?
In addition to that I believe that could be precived as a personal attack as your saying that I am being slanderous to the company, that I believe is a breech of the rules.
A lot of complaint of this nature are because the complainant and driver have a history of disagreements
(I am not saying it did or didn't happen)
Quote from: Tony on July 04, 2014, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 04, 2014, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on July 04, 2014, 09:59:17 PM
Quote from: NXDom on July 04, 2014, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: karl724223 on July 04, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
Not going to bother wasting my time on this one
Karl you're only trying to wind me up so just shut up, where you there? NO! If you don't believe me fine by you don't need to be such an area about it!
Actually, I don't believe the complaint either.
I reckon, you've added a swear word in there as it gives you something to complain about.
No I wasn't there, but without proof........ ;)
@karl724223
Ok then I don't mean to be rude but why would I make this up? For example if one of your children came home and said something similar to what I had but with no proof would you not belive them?
In addition to that I believe that could be precived as a personal attack as your saying that I am being slanderous to the company, that I believe is a breech of the rules.
A lot of complaint of this nature are because the complainant and driver have a history of disagreements
(I am not saying it did or didn't happen)
I've never had anything wrong with said driver, ive just stated what ive experienced and seen.
Still don't believe the story sorry
Still say if his driving standards was that bad other passengers would have made complaints believe me and nx would have investigated either off CCTV or plain clothes
NX Dom,
For future reference, if you experience anything like this in the future and feel it's appropriate to make a complaint, please do so only officially to 'NX Travelcare' and keep it off the forum!
The 'Consequences thread' has caused no end or arguments / hassle, and as a result will now be locked so everyone can move on.....
Winston