does any one now if bordsley green closeing down or Birmingham central
No, why would they close either one down, and where would the buses/routes go?
Bordesley could be closed as an operational garage being the smallest, but there's nowhere with spare capacity for its fleet & routes to be moved to.
Bordesley is NXWM HQ and they've just spent £1 million + on the AVL system so that wont be going anywhere anytime soon.
They've shut enough depots over the past 20 to 30 years & now some depots are struggling for space.
They really need another depot in East Birmingham to take the pressure off Perry Barr & Central/Bordesley.
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
lea hall was closed because some recycling company brought the garage and there is some B10s,B6s and O45Ns still at the back
Quote from: nxwmbusfan1999 on April 20, 2014, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
lea hall was closed because some recycling company brought the garage and there is some B10s,B6s and O45Ns still at the back
That is not correct. They were all closed to save money. The recycling company didn't come along until some time later
Quote from: Tony on April 20, 2014, 01:15:42 PM
Quote from: nxwmbusfan1999 on April 20, 2014, 01:13:28 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
lea hall was closed because some recycling company brought the garage and there is some B10s,B6s and O45Ns still at the back
That is not correct. They were all closed to save money. The recycling company didn't come along until some time later
I went to lea hall a few weeks ago looked inside at front completely empty and back still has some remaining withdrawn buses
If they are now struggling for space at the depots they could build
another one not sure where they would build one to take the presure
of the other depots & take some more new services as passenger numbers are up
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:33:04 PM
If they are now struggling for space at the depots they could build
another one not sure where they would build one to take the presure
of the other depots & take some more new services as passenger numbers are up
wont be no space for miller street as they have withdrawn buses and their trainers there
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
Quinton was plagued by noise complaints from local residents and I believe had restrictions imposed on it even though the garage was there before some of the houses. I'm sure the residents are so much better off with the constant flow of traffic 7 days a week due to the Tesco.
The decision to close Lea Hall was made during Dean Finch's review of NX Group businesses, the closure was due toexcess capacity in Birmingham & to cut costs.
It's generally the Birmingham garages that are struggling for capacity. If passengers numbers continue to grow & new services/frequencies enhanced they may at some point need additional depot space/depot extentions.
As I see it there are a few options:
1. Build a new open plan depot in South Birmingham that could take the 22, 23, 29, 61, 63, 98, 99 & X64 off BC to free up capacity. BC could then operate any service that enters the City Centre either new or transferred from another garage.
2. Clear the land of withdrawn vehicles at Pensnett, extend that depot and increase capacity there, move some WB routes that serve Dudley in to Pensnett and then transfer the 16 & 101 from PB in to WB to compensate if required
3. Open one or two smaller depots using former Warehouses similar to Bordesley and have them as an outstation of a main garage
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 01:53:58 PM
1. Build a new open plan depot in South Birmingham that could take the 22, 23, 29, 61, 63, 98, 99 & X64 off BC to free up capacity. BC could then operate any service that enters the City Centre either new or transferred from another garage.
They could use the space at Longbridge, opposite of Bournville college and take the 45, 47, 49, 61, 63 and 98, and possibly 29/A
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
Quinton was plagued by noise complaints from local residents and I believe had restrictions imposed on it even though the garage was there before some of the houses. I'm sure the residents are so much better off with the constant flow of traffic 7 days a week due to the Tesco.
The decision to close Lea Hall was made during Dean Finch's review of NX Group businesses, the closure was due toexcess capacity in Birmingham & to cut costs.
It's generally the Birmingham garages that are struggling for capacity. If passengers numbers continue to grow & new services/frequencies enhanced they may at some point need additional depot space/depot extentions.
As I see it there are a few options:
1. Build a new open plan depot in South Birmingham that could take the 22, 23, 29, 61, 63, 98, 99 & X64 off BC to free up capacity. BC could then operate any service that enters the City Centre either new or transferred from another garage.
2. Clear the land of withdrawn vehicles at Pensnett, extend that depot and increase capacity there, move some WB routes that serve Dudley in to Pensnett and then transfer the 16 & 101 from PB in to WB to compensate if required
3. Open one or two smaller depots using former Warehouses similar to Bordesley and have them as an outstation of a main garage
Halesowen area would be a good place for a depot
Quote from: richie on April 20, 2014, 05:03:55 PM
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
Quinton was plagued by noise complaints from local residents and I believe had restrictions imposed on it even though the garage was there before some of the houses. I'm sure the residents are so much better off with the constant flow of traffic 7 days a week due to the Tesco.
The decision to close Lea Hall was made during Dean Finch's review of NX Group businesses, the closure was due toexcess capacity in Birmingham & to cut costs.
It's generally the Birmingham garages that are struggling for capacity. If passengers numbers continue to grow & new services/frequencies enhanced they may at some point need additional depot space/depot extentions.
As I see it there are a few options:
1. Build a new open plan depot in South Birmingham that could take the 22, 23, 29, 61, 63, 98, 99 & X64 off BC to free up capacity. BC could then operate any service that enters the City Centre either new or transferred from another garage.
2. Clear the land of withdrawn vehicles at Pensnett, extend that depot and increase capacity there, move some WB routes that serve Dudley in to Pensnett and then transfer the 16 & 101 from PB in to WB to compensate if required
3. Open one or two smaller depots using former Warehouses similar to Bordesley and have them as an outstation of a main garage
Halesowen area would be a good place for a depot
I agree, quite a central location that could easily serve a number of areas
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 05:26:16 PM
Quote from: richie on April 20, 2014, 05:03:55 PM
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: Solo1 on April 20, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
What was the reason for closing Hockley Lea Hall Quintion Washwood Heath
I know there had space at other depots but now they r struggling for space
& how much extra fuel running dead to the outer termius
compaired to if the garage was still open like woodgate (Quinton)or chelmsley wood (Lea Hall). Now Birmingham Central
Quinton was plagued by noise complaints from local residents and I believe had restrictions imposed on it even though the garage was there before some of the houses. I'm sure the residents are so much better off with the constant flow of traffic 7 days a week due to the Tesco.
The decision to close Lea Hall was made during Dean Finch's review of NX Group businesses, the closure was due toexcess capacity in Birmingham & to cut costs.
It's generally the Birmingham garages that are struggling for capacity. If passengers numbers continue to grow & new services/frequencies enhanced they may at some point need additional depot space/depot extentions.
As I see it there are a few options:
1. Build a new open plan depot in South Birmingham that could take the 22, 23, 29, 61, 63, 98, 99 & X64 off BC to free up capacity. BC could then operate any service that enters the City Centre either new or transferred from another garage.
2. Clear the land of withdrawn vehicles at Pensnett, extend that depot and increase capacity there, move some WB routes that serve Dudley in to Pensnett and then transfer the 16 & 101 from PB in to WB to compensate if required
3. Open one or two smaller depots using former Warehouses similar to Bordesley and have them as an outstation of a main garage
Halesowen area would be a good place for a depot
I agree, quite a central location that could easily serve a number of areas
On the Coombeswood estates somewhere?
Surely any new depot would assist in winning Centro contracts in that area?
Quote from: Westy on April 20, 2014, 11:18:20 PM
Surely any new depot would assist in winning Centro contracts in that area?
NX aren't that interested in Centro contracts, I suspect they'll only bid/take them on at the right price, I doubt they'd consider undercutting the smaller operators just to win them.
if NXWM opened a new garage in Halesowen, what routes could potentially go there then? and what would happen to Pensnett? would that close or have other routes transferred in from WN, WA and WB?
I don't think Halesowen is an ideal location really, and while Longbridge is a good idea, once you take out the south-west Birmingham routes, there's not much left at BC!
Somewhere in East Birmingham would be far more practical, say near Chelmsley Wood or the Airport, then that could take on the 14, 59, 70, 71, 72, 94, 97, 900 and 966 services, freeing up some capacity at BC and AG, as well as reducing dead running from PB for the 94.
You don't need another South West Birmingham depot while you have Yardley Wood!
East Birmingham has got to be the favourite, so you have one for each corner of the city plus a Central one.
Do you keep Bordesley as an outstation of Central though?
Probably irrelevant, but I love how this topic has changed from being about closing garages to finding new places to open a garage! :D lol
Bordesley is an out station of Perry Barr. If there was a depot in Halesowen I would transfer the 241, 244, 22, 23, 24, 99, 297 and maybe 9 and 4. I would build on the Halesowen area and compete with diamond on the 002. Pensnett would get the 255/6/7 and 74. WB could have the 16 giving more capacity at WN, BC and PB.
Re open a bus garage on the land where hartshill once stood
Quote from: Stu on April 21, 2014, 10:56:08 AM
I don't think Halesowen is an ideal location really, and while Longbridge is a good idea, once you take out the south-west Birmingham routes, there's not much left at BC!
Somewhere in East Birmingham would be far more practical, say near Chelmsley Wood or the Airport, then that could take on the 14, 59, 70, 71, 72, 94, 97, 900 and 966 services, freeing up some capacity at BC and AG, as well as reducing dead running from PB for the 94.
Stu,
They had one in East Birmingham (aka LH), they chose to close it, all those routes are ex LH bar the 900
Quote from: Westy on April 21, 2014, 11:57:16 AM
You don't need another South West Birmingham depot while you have Yardley Wood!
East Birmingham has got to be the favourite, so you have one for each corner of the city plus a Central one.
Do you keep Bordesley as an outstation of Central though?
I'm pretty sure YW is already at capacity, hence why BC were doing a running board on the 50.
YW is also some distance away for the routes currently being suggested to operate out of a new depot Halesowen, most of the routes currently being quoted as ex Quinton Garage
Quote from: richie on April 21, 2014, 01:23:01 PM
Bordesley is an out station of Perry Barr. If there was a depot in Halesowen I would transfer the 241, 244, 22, 23, 24, 99, 297 and maybe 9 and 4. I would build on the Halesowen area and compete with diamond on the 002. Pensnett would get the 255/6/7 and 74. WB could have the 16 giving more capacity at WN, BC and PB.
Richie,
I'd tag the 140 & 141 on to that list, the 9 could be potentially be split between Pensnett & Halesowen to reduce dead mileage on short workings. Also the X64 could be added to that last as it will soon be terminating at Woodgate
Quote from: karl724223 on April 21, 2014, 01:50:35 PM
Re open a bus garage on the land where hartshill once stood
Karl,
That's too close to Pensnett, if they want a bigger bus garage at Pensnett, just loose the reserve fleet & extend the current garage on to that land
Bordesley is an outstation of Perry Barr?
It's closer to Central surely?
How does that work?
Quote from: Westy on April 21, 2014, 03:40:02 PM
Bordesley is an outstation of Perry Barr?
It's closer to Central surely?
How does that work?
Yes. It was originally an out station of BC. But I think that was changed to PB when they divisional management structures were changed plus PB operate Scania Omnilinks, whereas BC no longer have an allocation
Quote from: Winston on April 21, 2014, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 21, 2014, 10:56:08 AM
I don't think Halesowen is an ideal location really, and while Longbridge is a good idea, once you take out the south-west Birmingham routes, there's not much left at BC!
Somewhere in East Birmingham would be far more practical, say near Chelmsley Wood or the Airport, then that could take on the 14, 59, 70, 71, 72, 94, 97, 900 and 966 services, freeing up some capacity at BC and AG, as well as reducing dead running from PB for the 94.
Stu,
They had one in East Birmingham (aka LH), they chose to close it, all those routes are ex LH bar the 900
I do remember Lea Hall garage, there was probably a thinly veiled element of irony to my post! ;)
At the time it probably made sense to shut down Lea Hall, but with the capacity issues at BC, PB and AG, it sort of does make sense to acquire a new site over that part of Birmingham again. Or as I suggested, maybe closer to Chelmsley Wood or the Airport.
Quote from: Stu on April 21, 2014, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: Winston on April 21, 2014, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: Stu on April 21, 2014, 10:56:08 AM
I don't think Halesowen is an ideal location really, and while Longbridge is a good idea, once you take out the south-west Birmingham routes, there's not much left at BC!
Somewhere in East Birmingham would be far more practical, say near Chelmsley Wood or the Airport, then that could take on the 14, 59, 70, 71, 72, 94, 97, 900 and 966 services, freeing up some capacity at BC and AG, as well as reducing dead running from PB for the 94.
Stu,
They had one in East Birmingham (aka LH), they chose to close it, all those routes are ex LH bar the 900
I do remember Lea Hall garage, there was probably a thinly veiled element of irony to my post! ;)
At the time it probably made sense to shut down Lea Hall, but with the capacity issues at BC, PB and AG, it sort of does make sense to acquire a new site over that part of Birmingham again. Or as I suggested, maybe closer to Chelmsley Wood or the Airport.
To be fair, Chelmsley Wood is a ideal location that is served by a large number of high frequency routes, I'd have though that land around the Airport may be at a premium?
I guess the need for increased garage capacity will be dictated by any growth the NXWM business experiences over the next couple of years following the introduction of the 10 x Gold Corridors, the 275 new buses and any routes which require frequency enhancements or potentially totally new routes introduced. With current spare capacity in the Birmingham garages already thought to be at a premium, it does look as though pressure would need relieving in the Birmingham area sooner rather than later. It may be a more viable/cost effect option to try and acquire some additional land/premises either next door to or down the road from an existing garage and extend that or alternatively create a new outstation similar to Bordesley. those would be cheaper options than building a completely new garage somewhere.
Hartshill could be a sub station of pensnett used for parking up only with a portacabin as a despatch office all work done at pensnett or west brom put merry hill work into harts hill then put 74/87/255 into pensnett freeing up space at wa and wb
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 11:30:47 PM
Quote from: Westy on April 20, 2014, 11:18:20 PM
Surely any new depot would assist in winning Centro contracts in that area?
NX aren't that interested in Centro contracts, I suspect they'll only bid/take them on at the right price, I doubt they'd consider undercutting the smaller operators just to win them.
Just outta interest Winston I always wondered what on earth made them bid on those staffs cc cannock contracts with them being pretty much out of area ? :)
Quote from: bob on April 22, 2014, 09:39:42 AM
Quote from: Winston on April 20, 2014, 11:30:47 PM
Quote from: Westy on April 20, 2014, 11:18:20 PM
Surely any new depot would assist in winning Centro contracts in that area?
NX aren't that interested in Centro contracts, I suspect they'll only bid/take them on at the right price, I doubt they'd consider undercutting the smaller operators just to win them.
Just outta interest Winston I always wondered what on earth made them bid on those staffs cc cannock contracts with them being pretty much out of area ? :)
Not totally sure sure Bob, I can only assume that it was designed to 'fire one across Arriva's bow in Cannock' for expanding in the West Midlands? The X56 tender especially has been worked in to the X51 timetable, so I assume that pays. As for the others, not sure how they would have worked as Arriva returned fire & took them commercial, I wonder how Arriva are doing on those routes without subsidy
Its a shame because nx will now never come anywhere near cannock again and theres no prospect of any effective competition. I can see why staffs cc were only too pleased cos it saves them money but its total abuse of a monopoly by arriva :-(
Quote from: bob on April 22, 2014, 09:58:06 AM
Its a shame because nx will now never come anywhere near cannock again and theres no prospect of any effective competition. I can see why staffs cc were only too pleased cos it saves them money but its total abuse of a monopoly by arriva :-(
You never know what may happen in the future, NX's interest in Cannock may have played some part in Arriva's decision to upgrade the Pye Green's with new buses & the forthcoming new Sapphire single deckers for the 1 at least
I don't know the current route 1 buses arent in very good nick and would have needed replacing anyway. Dont remember nx ever having trips missed on the 351 due to breakdowns or technical issues lol. Its got that bad that a woman has complained on their fb page that she has been late for work several times and her work are demanding tosee arrivas rresponse to stop them disciplining her! Lol
Saying that I can see why nx wouldn't want to go anywhere near a route like 351 again it had become so dead. But the 1 is a pretty busy corridor and nx could potentially win if they gave arriva a run for their money. The daysavers alone could pull people in
Quote from: bob on April 22, 2014, 10:18:25 AM
I don't know the current route 1 buses arent in very good nick and would have needed replacing anyway. Dont remember nx ever having trips missed on the 351 due to breakdowns or technical issues lol. Its got that bad that a woman has complained on their fb page that she has been late for work several times and her work are demanding tosee arrivas rresponse to stop them disciplining her! Lol
NX did lose trips a couple of times during the Solo era, but it was rare in Metrobus days, and even during the B6 era B6s biggest problem was overheating and they would normally get back to Walsall for a change bus and not completely conk out
Quote from: bob on April 22, 2014, 10:21:48 AM
Saying that I can see why nx wouldn't want to go anywhere near a route like 351 again it had become so dead. But the 1 is a pretty busy corridor and nx could potentially win if they gave arriva a run for their money. The daysavers alone could pull people in
Bob I've told you before and I'll tell you again. I guarantee that if NX went onto the 1, they would not cover the whole route at the current Daysaver price outside of a price war with Arriva. If they had the route to themselves they would not sell the current Daysaver on it. Take my word for it. If NX could make money in that area with their current fare and concessionary structure they would still be there!
So do you control the fare structure for NXWM And ?.
Why do they still continue to sell them on the cannock X51s then?
Arriva have lost a hell of a lot more than a couple of trips tony. Lol. I dont remember chase losing many either, considering the age of their fleet
Quote from: andyr on April 22, 2014, 01:52:12 PM
So do you control the fare structure for NXWM And ?.
What is your point?
Quote from: bob on April 22, 2014, 01:59:25 PM
Why do they still continue to sell them on the cannock X51s then?
Because the cost implication of selling a Daysaver at that price to a customer who will only be able to catch 3 of your services is a bit different to running a multi vehicle all day operation on the 1 with a much less generous concessionary scheme than exists within the West Midlands.
It is a pity the former Selly Oak garage has changed so much now as that would be ideal for a lot of routes - Bristol Rd, Pershore Rd, even Harborne routes and to help out on the 11a/c too + 76, 84 etc. The outer 'shell' of the garage is still intact but guessing the interior is rather different now being a storage place. Ideal position though.
So how come they still sell them on the x51, and in Burntwood, in staffs? And codsall etc also in staffs with the same concessionary scheme? ??
Quote from: bob on April 22, 2014, 06:55:07 PM
So how come they still sell them on the x51, and in Burntwood, in staffs? And codsall etc also in staffs with the same concessionary scheme? ??
Because those routes are already part of a nucleus of services where most of the route is covered by the West Midlands. The passenger traffic within the West Midlands on those routes is the preodominant earner as is the concessionary income, as I have said it is a very different scenario on the 1 and 2. If there was money to be made doing so, they would be.
50% of the 1 is in the WM. its a very busy service
As I say I can understand giving the 2 a wide birth. But that said arriva seem to be happy with a half hourly service, if that lost money surely theyd get rid.