http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpbsp/10768170916/
Think this is the first pic ive seen of one in service after it was revealed at the nec last month.
Cant say im a big fan to be honest, especially after how modern the previous looked
Opinions?
It looks hideous... and sounds crap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qJAHKxQGMY#t=278 :( One positive thing I will say about it, at least it sounds semi b7tl ish when braking :P Still a shed but an improvement on the single decker heaps we have, and seems to have more soul than a b9tl!
They've really made a hash of that rear end.
I thought I liked it but; - no.
It looks really compact and uncomfortable, not a touch (design-wise), on the Gemini 1s or 2s. Nice engine though :)
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 13, 2013, 03:04:07 PM
They've really made a hash of that rear end.
I thought I liked it but; - no.
I'm not to keen on it either LS that rear end lets it down for me
Quote from: Rob4367 on November 13, 2013, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 13, 2013, 03:04:07 PM
They've really made a hash of that rear end.
I thought I liked it but; - no.
I'm not to keen on it either LS that rear end lets it down for me
The
nightmares of NX purchasing these!!! :'(
Quote from: clayderman on November 13, 2013, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: Rob4367 on November 13, 2013, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 13, 2013, 03:04:07 PM
They've really made a hash of that rear end.
I thought I liked it but; - no.
I'm not to keen on it either LS that rear end lets it down for me
The nightmares of NX purchasing these!!! :'(
Suddenly mass purchase of E400s doesn't seem quite so bad ;)
I must admit the smaller upper deck windows on the red Volvo B5TL London demonstrator don't look as bad as the grey show model at Bus & Coach live. I think if Wright Bus dropped the sides panels from wrapping around the rear & painted the section between the upper/lower deck rear windows red it wouldn't look as awkward.......
I suspect this latest Volvo/Wright offering could give ADL E400's a run for their money, I understand with the weight reductions achieved & smaller engine to match the B5LH model without the hybrid drive, fuel consumption is significantly reduced over the current B9TL's
It actually looks quite Borismastery at the rear.
Don't you believe that Great Britain should have the best? If you walked into a bus showroom you would buy the B5 - it's lovely, it's elegant, it's beautiful. It is quite simply the best. And Britain should have the best. In the world of the nuclear missile it is the Saville Row suit, the Rolls Royce Corniche, the Château Lafitte 1945. It is the bus Harrods would sell you. What more can I say?
Quote from: the trainbasher on November 13, 2013, 11:36:40 PM
If you walked into a bus showroom you would buy the B5 ...... it is the Saville Row suit.....
Dunno about Saville Row, I would have said it looks as appetising as Jimmy Saville ...
Quote from: the trainbasher on November 13, 2013, 11:36:40 PM
It actually looks quite Borismastery at the rear.
Don't you believe that Great Britain should have the best? If you walked into a bus showroom you would buy the B5 - it's lovely, it's elegant, it's beautiful. It is quite simply the best. And Britain should have the best. In the world of the nuclear missile it is the Saville Row suit, the Rolls Royce Corniche, the Château Lafitte 1945. It is the bus Harrods would sell you. What more can I say?
I'm sorry to say but you're spitting feathers Mr Brant!!!
I'm sorry to say I'm hardly being serious when I talk like I'm at work - I'm hardly that passionate about something I like!
Quote from: Winston on November 13, 2013, 11:28:21 PM
I must admit the smaller upper deck windows on the red Volvo B5TL London demonstrator don't look as bad as the grey show model at Bus & Coach live. I think if Wright Bus dropped the sides panels from wrapping around the rear & painted the section between the upper/lower deck rear windows red it wouldn't look as awkward.......
I suspect this latest Volvo/Wright offering could give ADL E400's a run for their money, I understand with the weight reductions achieved & smaller engine to match the B5LH model without the hybrid drive, fuel consumption is significantly increased over the current B9TL's
Glass is heavier than aluminium, so large windows cost fuel! Yo don't neccessarily need large windows as long as they are in the right place so small and large people can see out at normal eye level.
Most people said the Birmingham Standard was elegant, didn't have very big windows.
Tony
<driving 3225 again this Saturday!>
The thing is that the large windows on the Gemini 1 and 2 bodywork contributed to the modern look which was way ahead if its time. The Gemini 3, by comparison looks very retro. I'm usually a big fan of Wright bodywork but I have to say that, unfortunately, these are downright fugly.
I don't doubt that they'll be a better build quality than their ADL equivalent though.
It is interesting that Stagecoach have ordered around 30 of these for London routes 54 and 75 from Catford, They have been won in the new year from Metrobus. Stagecoach have been hooked on E400 bodies on both Trident and Scania chassis for years so this is quite a change for them.
Horrendous as it is, I quite like it. Despite the front being from the older models. In my opinion, if they redesigned the whole thing and renamed it, it probably would've stood a chance of more people liking it...
You'll probably find those upper saloon windows are the same dimensions as the old MCW Metrobus saloon windows, or not far off.
Optical illusions.
As someone posted above, if the red on the rear continued around the destination at the rear, it'll look better.
Too much blacks on the back there.
Are NXWM getting any??
I pray the answer to that is no :P
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I join you in your prayers
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
I'd like to think NXWM have more sense than to invest in them ;)
Quote from: MrBevan2000 on November 18, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders.
I second that! Would also like to see some more new Voith buses in the fleet :P
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
Well there was that one with Suits on board at BC...
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
E350Hs please :-) (with them painted like http://s252.photobucket.com/user/kentish121/media/ADLEnviro200TravelWMHybrid2.png.html please?)
Quote from: the trainbasher on November 18, 2013, 10:28:22 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
E350Hs please :-) (with them painted like http://s252.photobucket.com/user/kentish121/media/ADLEnviro200TravelWMHybrid2.png.html please?)
Travel Merry Hill anyone? :D
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.
They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.
E350H would be fantastic as would regular E300 but I don't think we have a chance :(
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.
They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.
They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different
My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: MrBevan2000 on November 18, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.
I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.
I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of 32 x B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H for all order (and may be a first for Stagecoach?), they are also taking 73 x E400H in addition
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:39:33 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.
They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.
They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different
My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings
They may have a ZF ecolife box or something like that which is more modern. What I don't understand is why the e300 was such a disaster until it was redesigned-why no one bought it in big numbers really surprises me.
The ones at worcester and redditch are great-full 144 on one of the VX53 ones is an absolute treat as is a full matchborough circular on one of the ex first ones at redditch. Not so keen on the more recently acquired ones.
Quote from: Winston on November 18, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: MrBevan2000 on November 18, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.
I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.
I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)
I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!
Weren't Stagecoach London the only ones to order ZF ALX400 Tridents aswell?
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:43:35 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:39:33 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.
They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.
They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different
My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings
They may have a ZF ecolife box or something like that which is more modern. What I don't understand is why the e300 was such a disaster until it was redesigned-why no one bought it in big numbers really surprises me.
The ones at worcester and redditch are great-full 144 on one of the VX53 ones is an absolute treat as is a full matchborough circular on one of the ex first ones at redditch. Not so keen on the more recently acquired ones.
Older E300s are some of the fastest full size single deckers you can get, they go off like a scalded cat if the driver puts his foot down. I make a point of riding Worcester services on the E300s every so often. I had 67602 (VX53 VJZ) on the 44 not so long ago, brilliant ride.
Joe just told me you can get ZF gears on new E300s, which is good to hear. Sadly Youtube is stuck in "trained monkeys" mode at the moment so can't look it up, but would be interested to hear what one sounds like.
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 18, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: MrBevan2000 on November 18, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.
I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.
I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)
I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!
Dual sourcing wouldn't increase the number of spares carried any more than with all the different types of double deckers in the NXWM fleet. I'm sure Stagecoach get a special deal with Mr Souter owning a stake in ADL.
It will be interesting to see if First Group place any orders for new Euro 6 double deckers in any quantity for 2014/15 and where they favour....
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:48:41 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:43:35 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:39:33 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:23:22 PM
Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.
I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.
They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.
They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different
My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings
They may have a ZF ecolife box or something like that which is more modern. What I don't understand is why the e300 was such a disaster until it was redesigned-why no one bought it in big numbers really surprises me.
The ones at worcester and redditch are great-full 144 on one of the VX53 ones is an absolute treat as is a full matchborough circular on one of the ex first ones at redditch. Not so keen on the more recently acquired ones.
Older E300s are some of the fastest full size single deckers you can get, they go off like a scalded cat if the driver puts his foot down. I make a point of riding Worcester services on the E300s every so often. I had 67602 (VX53 VJZ) on the 44 not so long ago, brilliant ride.
Joe just told me you can get ZF gears on new E300s, which is good to hear. Sadly Youtube is stuck in "trained monkeys" mode at the moment so can't look it up, but would be interested to hear what one sounds like.
I agree-I guess it must be because they are so light. When they were newer and I remember this well, they used to lurch about a bit when the brakes were applied at low speed they seemed a bit sharp. The VX53 ones are especially good I agree.
I think you can-ZF do gearboxes for the e300 still its just that the main customer stagecoach specify voith for pretty much everything. I imagine the first ones in manchester or wherever they are are ZF though as first don't seem mad on voith. I imagine though that they are lighter than ever the revised eclipse2 and thus more fuel efficient hence why first is buying them. I also think the streetlite max and extra long versa could save a bit of fuel-if the versa actually works and doesn't break down that is...
Quote from: Winston on November 18, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 18, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: MrBevan2000 on November 18, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.
I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.
I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)
I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!
Dual sourcing wouldn't increase the number of spares carried any more than with all the different types of double deckers in the NXWM fleet. I'm sure Stagecoach get a special deal with Mr Souter owning a stake in ADL.
It will be interesting to see if First Group place any orders for new Euro 6 double deckers in any quantity for 2014/15 and where they favour....
I guess that is true though over the next few years I imagine NX will try to standardise the fleet on 3 types. And yes, they probably do get a better deal. First seem single deck focussed at the moment-I guess with single decks in places like manchester and glasgow you can up the frequency and thus grow ridership. I'm still yet to be convinced that deckers really are the best way forward for somewhere like birmingham when you can have long single decks on a frequency that encourages more people to use the bus and reduces vandalism. Arriva Merseyside's fleet is very modern with single decks as is stagecoach in merseyside because they saw the vandalism issue and decided for the most part to ditch deckers other than for very busy routes.
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 18, 2013, 10:53:52 PM
Quote from: DiamondDart on November 18, 2013, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 18, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
Quote from: MrBevan2000 on November 18, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
I pray the answer to that is no :P
I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.
I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.
I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)
I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!
Dual sourcing wouldn't increase the number of spares carried any more than with all the different types of double deckers in the NXWM fleet. I'm sure Stagecoach get a special deal with Mr Souter owning a stake in ADL.
It will be interesting to see if First Group place any orders for new Euro 6 double deckers in any quantity for 2014/15 and where they favour....
I guess that is true though over the next few years I imagine NX will try to standardise the fleet on 3 types. And yes, they probably do get a better deal. First seem single deck focussed at the moment-I guess with single decks in places like manchester and glasgow you can up the frequency and thus grow ridership. I'm still yet to be convinced that deckers really are the best way forward for somewhere like birmingham when you can have long single decks on a frequency that encourages more people to use the bus and reduces vandalism. Arriva Merseyside's fleet is very modern with single decks as is stagecoach in merseyside because they saw the vandalism issue and decided for the most part to ditch deckers other than for very busy routes.
I can see where you're coming from, but the more routes you convert back to high frequency operated by full size single deckers the more you increase the costs of operating the routes i.e. higher pvr, more drivers required, more garage space etc
First Group are more focused on single deckers at present due to numbers of step entry Darts & early non DDA complaint single deckers still in daily operation. They also have a good few hundred step entrance double deckers that will need replacing in the not too distant future
"I can see where you're coming from, but the more routes you convert back to high frequency operated by full size single deckers the more you increase the costs of operating the routes i.e. higher pvr, more drivers required, more garage space etc
First Group are more focused on single deckers at present due to numbers of step entry Darts & early non DDA complaint single deckers still in daily operation. They also have a good few hundred step entrance double deckers that will need replacing in the not too distant future"
That is definitely true it does increase costs and many routes in the WM are probably already at saturation point with buses on very high frequencies so upping the frequency with single deckers would simply increase costs. I think the approach could work better in first group subsidaries where there is maybe more growth potential as frequencies were previously slashed so restoring some of them with single deckers initially could be a way of regaining market share. FirstGroup have an absolute mountain to climb thats for sure and I can't believe they've still got step entry darts hanging about. Theyre a minimum of 18 years old!! And there are also, as you say step entry deckers around some of which have been repainted!!
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:18:14 PM
Quote from: nitromatt1 on November 18, 2013, 10:17:29 PM
No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders.
I second that! Would also like to see some more new Voith buses in the fleet :P
You know how much i like ADL buses so i agree with both of you ;)
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:48:17 PM
Weren't Stagecoach London the only ones to order ZF ALX400 Tridents aswell?
And they have a batch of scania omnicity's
Quote from: Dylan4579 on November 19, 2013, 06:19:01 PM
Quote from: trident4370 on November 18, 2013, 10:48:17 PM
Weren't Stagecoach London the only ones to order ZF ALX400 Tridents aswell?
And they have a batch of scania omnicity's
They do but technically stagecoach didn't order those-they were bought by macquarie bank. And think they may be leased anyway? But not sure on that one...
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
Oh no, electric brakes for the B5tl! That means B7RLE joltyness again. Not that I'm complaining just I dislike those electric brake sensor systems.
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
I'd agree with that, I did think the B5TL being a tonne lighter & with a 5 litre engine may have reduced fuel consumption by more than 10% though
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
I'd agree with that, I did think the B5TL being a tonne lighter & with a 5 litre engine may have reduced fuel consumption by more than 10% though
Not really, with bus mileage (rather then coach) 10% is a good margin.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
I'd agree with that, I did think the B5TL being a tonne lighter & with a 5 litre engine may have reduced fuel consumption by more than 10% though
Not really, with bus mileage (rather then coach) 10% is a good margin.
Fair enough LS, I was thinking it may have fallen closer to the mid-range between a standard diesel double decker & a hybrid i.e. 15%+
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
I'd agree with that, I did think the B5TL being a tonne lighter & with a 5 litre engine may have reduced fuel consumption by more than 10% though
Not really, with bus mileage (rather then coach) 10% is a good margin.
Fair enough LS, I was thinking it may have fallen closer to the mid-range between a standard diesel double decker & a hybrid i.e. 15%+
I mean that is a fair point and I can see where you're coming from, but with the lack of Stop Start and Brake Energy Recovery and similar Non-Hybrid systems on board the standard B5TL, then 10% is about the best what can be achieved without talking stupid numbers and chopping the chassis in half, so to speak.
Still, they have a better chance of managing a full day out on the Outer Circle without breaking down (or bursting into flames ::)) than the current 14 year old Plaxton President B7TLs.
The B5TL is certainly a more affordable option than the hybrid B5LH, and as the B5TL is Volvo / Wrightbus' new flagship double decker, it should be fitting for the 11 Outer Circle, being NXWM's flagship iconic route.
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 08:50:13 PM
Still, they have a better chance of managing a full day out on the Outer Circle without breaking down (or bursting into flames ::)) than the current 14 year old Plaxton President B7TLs.
The B5TL is certainly a more affordable option than the hybrid B5LH, and as the B5TL is Volvo / Wrightbus' new flagship double decker, it should be fitting for the 11 Outer Circle, being NXWM's flagship iconic route.
Well saying that, what was the valid reason of Geminis being taken off for Presidents on the Circle? I was told by a mate at AG the plan was 100% President operation on the Circuit, but I presume thats fell through.
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:53:10 PM
Well saying that, what was the valid reason of Geminis being taken off for Presidents on the Circle? I was told by a mate at AG the plan was 100% President operation on the Circuit, but I presume thats fell through.
It may have something to do with the LEZ in Brum, so Central had to lose all their Presidents, and they had around 30 at the time, so Acocks Green and Yardley Wood had them. It may be something entirely different though
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
I'd agree with that, I did think the B5TL being a tonne lighter & with a 5 litre engine may have reduced fuel consumption by more than 10% though
Not really, with bus mileage (rather then coach) 10% is a good margin.
Fair enough LS, I was thinking it may have fallen closer to the mid-range between a standard diesel double decker & a hybrid i.e. 15%+
I mean that is a fair point and I can see where you're coming from, but with the lack of Stop Start and Brake Energy Recovery and similar Non-Hybrid systems on board the standard B5TL, then 10% is about the best what can be achieved without talking stupid numbers and chopping the chassis in half, so to speak.
Every bus has it's own built in stop/start, it called the driver............... ;)
Quote from: John on November 19, 2013, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:53:10 PM
Well saying that, what was the valid reason of Geminis being taken off for Presidents on the Circle? I was told by a mate at AG the plan was 100% President operation on the Circuit, but I presume thats fell through.
It may have something to do with the LEZ in Brum, so Central had to lose all their Presidents, and they had around 30 at the time, so Acocks Green and Yardley Wood had them. It may be something entirely different though
No John, that was the exact reason. As the Presidents aren't min Euro 3. If AG were to loose a large chunk of their President allocation and NX intended to retain them for a couple more years options for cascade are limited
Quote from: John on November 19, 2013, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:53:10 PM
Well saying that, what was the valid reason of Geminis being taken off for Presidents on the Circle? I was told by a mate at AG the plan was 100% President operation on the Circuit, but I presume thats fell through.
It may have something to do with the LEZ in Brum, so Central had to lose all their Presidents, and they had around 30 at the time, so Acocks Green and Yardley Wood had them. It may be something entirely different though
Could be, I'll have a look into it. Cheers John.
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:35:38 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: Stu on November 19, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
I don't know what people have got against these, I'd love to see a batch of 40 ordered for the 11A/C, sounds like they'd be perfect for this route, and beats having Enviro400s introduced to Acocks Green!
http://www.volvobuses.com/bus/uk/en-gb/bus%20and%20coach/bus/Pages/B5TL.aspx
I'd agree with that, I did think the B5TL being a tonne lighter & with a 5 litre engine may have reduced fuel consumption by more than 10% though
Not really, with bus mileage (rather then coach) 10% is a good margin.
Fair enough LS, I was thinking it may have fallen closer to the mid-range between a standard diesel double decker & a hybrid i.e. 15%+
I mean that is a fair point and I can see where you're coming from, but with the lack of Stop Start and Brake Energy Recovery and similar Non-Hybrid systems on board the standard B5TL, then 10% is about the best what can be achieved without talking stupid numbers and chopping the chassis in half, so to speak.
Every bus has it's own built in stop/start, it called the driver............... ;)
I'll let you off with that one Winny, ;)
Quote from: Winston on November 19, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: John on November 19, 2013, 08:55:47 PM
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 08:53:10 PM
Well saying that, what was the valid reason of Geminis being taken off for Presidents on the Circle? I was told by a mate at AG the plan was 100% President operation on the Circuit, but I presume thats fell through.
It may have something to do with the LEZ in Brum, so Central had to lose all their Presidents, and they had around 30 at the time, so Acocks Green and Yardley Wood had them. It may be something entirely different though
No John, that was the exact reason. As the Presidents aren't min Euro 3. If AG were to loose a large chunk of their President allocation and NX intended to retain them for a couple more years options for cascade are limited
But 100% President allocation?
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 09:09:41 PM
Well saying that, what was the valid reason of Geminis being taken off for Presidents on the Circle? I was told by a mate at AG the plan was 100% President operation on the Circuit, but I presume thats fell through.
It may have something to do with the LEZ in Brum, so Central had to lose all their Presidents, and they had around 30 at the time, so Acocks Green and Yardley Wood had them. It may be something entirely different though
No John, that was the exact reason. As the Presidents aren't min Euro 3. If AG were to loose a large chunk of their President allocation and NX intended to retain them for a couple more years options for cascade are limited
But 100% President allocation?
100% President allocation would be crackers, the Presidents already account for nearly 65% of AG's total double decker allocation, as they get older & older, more & more breakdowns will occur and a greater proportion of AG's routes would become more unreliable. I think the Presidents should be distributed a bit more evenly around other garages that can operate then to reduce the concentration at AG
As I say mate don't shoot the messenger, that's only what I've been told.
So, if you're doing the rounds, you could benefit from any of AG's fleet?
Maybe I should move these posts to the AG thread?
Quote from: Liverpool Street on November 19, 2013, 09:30:32 PM
As I say mate don't shoot the messenger, that's only what I've been told.
So, if you're doing the rounds, you could benefit from any of AG's fleet?
Maybe I should move these posts to the AG thread?
I wouldn't bother wasting your time, most conversations end up deviating from the original topic.....
I'm thinking:
- WB could take some more to see off further Mercs, the 48 would benefit from full double decker operation
- Dundee could take some more to see off the remaining B10L
- WA could take some to allow Tridents to be released to CV/PE or WN, again resulting in the removal of further Mercs or Mercs & Spectras - WA have operated them in the past
Or a batch of Presidents could also go directly to NXC which already operates Volvo double deckers, this could then allow withdrawal of Mercs or allow cascading of Y- reg Tridents to other garages & wouldn't effect the average age too much
According to the new issue of Buses magazine, an anomaly in the British government's application of EU vehicle type approval rules will give bus and coach manufacturers as much as an extra year after 1 January 2014 to carry on supplying Euro5 vehicles.
Quote from: Roy on November 20, 2013, 12:46:47 PM
According to the new issue of Buses magazine, an anomaly in the British government's application of EU vehicle type approval rules will give bus and coach manufacturers as much as an extra year after 1 January 2014 to carry on supplying Euro5 vehicles.
That might explain why the supply of Euro 5 dealer stock hasn't been increased to allow operators to take advantage of cheaper Euro 5 vehicles against Euro 6
Quote from: Roy on November 20, 2013, 12:46:47 PM
According to the new issue of Buses magazine, an anomaly in the British government's application of EU vehicle type approval rules will give bus and coach manufacturers as much as an extra year after 1 January 2014 to carry on supplying Euro5 vehicles.
That's brilliant news!
To correct an error above. Stagecoach have ordered 'conventional' B5LH Hybrids for rotes 54 and 75, not the Euro 6 Gemini which is the subject of this forum. Still a first for Stagecoach I think.