Euro 6 Gemini's begin to enter service

[trident4370]

E350H would be fantastic as would regular E300 but I don't think we have a chance :(

[nitromatt1]

Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.

I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.

They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.

They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different

My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings

[winston]

I pray the answer to that is no :P

I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif

No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.

I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.

I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of 32 x B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H for all order (and may be a first for Stagecoach?), they are also taking 73 x E400H in addition

[PM]

Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.

I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.

They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.

They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different

My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings

They may have a ZF ecolife box or something like that which is more modern. What I don't understand is why the e300 was such a disaster until it was redesigned-why no one bought it in big numbers really surprises me.
The ones at worcester and redditch are great-full 144 on one of the VX53 ones is an absolute treat as is a full matchborough circular on one of the ex first ones at redditch. Not so keen on the more recently acquired ones.

[PM]

I pray the answer to that is no :P

I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif

No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.

I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.

I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)

I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!

[trident4370]

Weren't Stagecoach London the only ones to order ZF ALX400 Tridents aswell?

[nitromatt1]

Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.

I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.

They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.

They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different

My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings

They may have a ZF ecolife box or something like that which is more modern. What I don't understand is why the e300 was such a disaster until it was redesigned-why no one bought it in big numbers really surprises me.
The ones at worcester and redditch are great-full 144 on one of the VX53 ones is an absolute treat as is a full matchborough circular on one of the ex first ones at redditch. Not so keen on the more recently acquired ones.

Older E300s are some of the fastest full size single deckers you can get, they go off like a scalded cat if the driver puts his foot down. I make a point of riding Worcester services on the E300s every so often. I had 67602 (VX53 VJZ) on the 44 not so long ago, brilliant ride.

Joe just told me you can get ZF gears on new E300s, which is good to hear. Sadly Youtube is stuck in "trained monkeys" mode at the moment so can't look it up, but would be interested to hear what one sounds like.

[winston]

I pray the answer to that is no :P

I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif

No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.

I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.

I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)

I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!

Dual sourcing wouldn't increase the number of spares carried any more than with all the different types of double deckers in the NXWM fleet. I'm sure Stagecoach get a special deal with Mr Souter owning a stake in ADL.

It will be interesting to see if First Group place any orders for new Euro 6 double deckers in any quantity for 2014/15 and where they favour....

[PM]

Really hoping none of these are ordered they look hideous. Enviro300s would be nice or even some enviro350h's would be brilliant. I hardly think NX would be foolish enough to buy euro6 geminis.

I've sat in the cab of an Enviro350H, fantastic looking thing and had a lovely interior. It would make my day to have some in Birmingham.

They are fantastic buses and really clever with a flat floor right to the back of the vehicle. The stagecoach gold ones look fantastic. I'm yet to be convinced that wright pulsar 2's are good having been on them a lot recently... I'm a big fan of the old generation enviro300 as well-the first/diamond ones-they sound brilliant but I wonder if the new ones sound similar as I've never been on one.

They wouldn't do as the First/Diamond ones have Euro 3 engines and a ZF gearbox, the new ones have Euro 5 engines and I don't think can have ZF gears (correct me if I'm wrong?), either Voith or Allison, so would sound quite different

My favourite Enviro300s are of course the ones at Worcester and Redditch, but I am still a fan of the new offerings

They may have a ZF ecolife box or something like that which is more modern. What I don't understand is why the e300 was such a disaster until it was redesigned-why no one bought it in big numbers really surprises me.
The ones at worcester and redditch are great-full 144 on one of the VX53 ones is an absolute treat as is a full matchborough circular on one of the ex first ones at redditch. Not so keen on the more recently acquired ones.

Older E300s are some of the fastest full size single deckers you can get, they go off like a scalded cat if the driver puts his foot down. I make a point of riding Worcester services on the E300s every so often. I had 67602 (VX53 VJZ) on the 44 not so long ago, brilliant ride.

Joe just told me you can get ZF gears on new E300s, which is good to hear. Sadly Youtube is stuck in "trained monkeys" mode at the moment so can't look it up, but would be interested to hear what one sounds like.

I agree-I guess it must be because they are so light. When they were newer and I remember this well, they used to lurch about a bit when the brakes were applied at low speed they seemed a bit sharp. The VX53 ones are especially good I agree.

I think you can-ZF do gearboxes for the e300 still its just that the main customer stagecoach specify voith for pretty much everything. I imagine the first ones in manchester or wherever they are are ZF though as first don't seem mad on voith. I imagine though that they are lighter than ever the revised eclipse2 and thus more fuel efficient hence why first is buying them. I also think the streetlite max and extra long versa could save a bit of fuel-if the versa actually works and doesn't break down that is...

[PM]

I pray the answer to that is no :P

I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif

No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.

I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.

I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)

I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!

Dual sourcing wouldn't increase the number of spares carried any more than with all the different types of double deckers in the NXWM fleet. I'm sure Stagecoach get a special deal with Mr Souter owning a stake in ADL.

It will be interesting to see if First Group place any orders for new Euro 6 double deckers in any quantity for 2014/15 and where they favour....

I guess that is true though over the next few years I imagine NX will try to standardise the fleet on 3 types. And yes, they probably do get a better deal. First seem single deck focussed at the moment-I guess with single decks in places like manchester and glasgow you can up the frequency and thus grow ridership. I'm still yet to be convinced that deckers really are the best way forward for somewhere like birmingham when you can have long single decks on a frequency that encourages more people to use the bus and reduces vandalism. Arriva Merseyside's fleet is very modern with single decks as is stagecoach in merseyside because they saw the vandalism issue and decided for the most part to ditch deckers other than for very busy routes.

[winston]

I pray the answer to that is no :P

I pray the answer to that is yes http://wmbusphotos.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif

No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders. If we have to have more hybrids (!), then let them be Enviros. I'm still living on the hope of Enviro300s as well.

I'd have to disagree there..... I like to see NX revert to dual sourcing to add a bit more variety to the fleet. I wouldn't like to see a double deck fleet comprising of just E400's and a few Hybrids. I think the build quality from Wrightbus is far superior in terms of quality & design (in most instances), you only have to look at how well the B10L fleet has dated against the Merc's. If enough regular Gemini customers are negative of the rear end design of the new Gemini and it start effecting orders, Wrights could be forced to have a re-think.

I suspect Volvo's new B5TL/Wright Gemini could give ADL and the E400's a run for their money at least until the new ADL double decker is launched. The B5TL with the lighter weight Gemini bodywork could become a cost effective solution against the high cost of purchasing Hybrids. Stagecoach London is also taking delivery of a batch of B5LH/Wright Gemini 2 in the new year for Tfl routes 54 & 75 from Catford Garage, which is significant in the fact Stagecoach generally favour the ADL E400H (and may be a first for Stagecoach?)

I agree about wrightbus build quality and about the b10ls but dual sourcing surely just increases the amount of spare parts that need to be stocked. And I hope that they do rethink the current design. I still think the e400 looks good to say its been out over 8 years now. But I guess it depends on what the new e400 looks like...
Stagecoach london always seem more experimental with mercs arriving along with these geminis. Overall though adl remain their main supplier of new buses and cannot ever see that changing as long as brian souter has shares in both companies!

Dual sourcing wouldn't increase the number of spares carried any more than with all the different types of double deckers in the NXWM fleet. I'm sure Stagecoach get a special deal with Mr Souter owning a stake in ADL.

It will be interesting to see if First Group place any orders for new Euro 6 double deckers in any quantity for 2014/15 and where they favour....

I guess that is true though over the next few years I imagine NX will try to standardise the fleet on 3 types. And yes, they probably do get a better deal. First seem single deck focussed at the moment-I guess with single decks in places like manchester and glasgow you can up the frequency and thus grow ridership. I'm still yet to be convinced that deckers really are the best way forward for somewhere like birmingham when you can have long single decks on a frequency that encourages more people to use the bus and reduces vandalism. Arriva Merseyside's fleet is very modern with single decks as is stagecoach in merseyside because they saw the vandalism issue and decided for the most part to ditch deckers other than for very busy routes.

I can see where you're coming from, but the more routes you convert back to high frequency operated by full size single deckers the more you increase the costs of operating the routes i.e. higher pvr, more drivers required, more garage space etc

First Group are more focused on single deckers at present due to numbers of step entry Darts & early non DDA complaint single deckers still in daily operation. They also have a good few hundred step entrance double deckers that will need replacing in the not too distant future

[PM]

"I can see where you're coming from, but the more routes you convert back to high frequency operated by full size single deckers the more you increase the costs of operating the routes i.e. higher pvr, more drivers required, more garage space etc

First Group are more focused on single deckers at present due to numbers of step entry Darts & early non DDA complaint single deckers still in daily operation. They also have a good few hundred step entrance double deckers that will need replacing in the not too distant future"

That is definitely true it does increase costs and many routes in the WM are probably already at saturation point with buses on very high frequencies so upping the frequency with single deckers would simply increase costs. I think the approach could work better in first group subsidaries where there is maybe more growth potential as frequencies were previously slashed so restoring some of them with single deckers initially could be a way of regaining market share. FirstGroup have an absolute mountain to climb thats for sure and I can't believe they've still got step entry darts hanging about. Theyre a minimum of 18 years old!! And there are also, as you say step entry deckers around some of which have been repainted!!

[Trident 4609]

No... I'm hoping NX are standardising on ADL for new bus orders.

I second that! Would also like to see some more new Voith buses in the fleet :P

You know how much i like ADL buses so i agree with both of you ;)

[Dylan4579]

Weren't Stagecoach London the only ones to order ZF ALX400 Tridents aswell?

And they have a batch of scania omnicity's

[PM]

Weren't Stagecoach London the only ones to order ZF ALX400 Tridents aswell?

And they have a batch of scania omnicity's

They do but technically stagecoach didn't order those-they were bought by macquarie bank. And think they may be leased anyway? But not sure on that one...