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Central Buses

Started by Lukeee, May 24, 2012, 09:50:42 PM

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Westy

Quote from: Winston on February 06, 2018, 10:09:40 AM
Arriva Cannock also came very close to being bought out by TWM (NX) some years ago and the plan was to absorb their routes and operate out of Walsall depot. This was before Arriva acquired Chase.

Nothing stopping them now surely, apart from Monopolies & Mergers surely?

I'd be interested to see how much of Central's routes are hung onto, in the long run by Diamond, commercial or tendered.

If routes are being ditched by the big boys, for cost reasons, surely there's going to be a shortage of small operators willing to take on the routes eventually, if they keep being bought out by the big boys & looking at the Chase Bus situation on the other thread, I wouldn't hold my breath on them personally!

DeanM66A

Quote from: Trident 4194 on February 06, 2018, 10:03:08 AM
I can't see who would be willing to sell out though?

Anybody if the price is right.  Especially independents established and grown by individuals who are tempted to cash in for their retirement.

A number of notable omissions from this morning's speculations:
the three smallish geographically separate First Midlands operations: Stoke, Leicester and Worcester;
Transdev - just acquired Rosso;
Go-Ahead - bought Swindon last year;
Claribels.

And I suspect that a careful watch is being kept on some of the remaining "municipalities".  How sustainable are some of these?  Look at the age profile of fleets such as Halton and Warrington.

winston

Quote from: Westy on February 06, 2018, 12:59:26 PM
Nothing stopping them now surely, apart from Monopolies & Mergers surely?

I'd be interested to see how much of Central's routes are hung onto, in the long run by Diamond, commercial or tendered.

If routes are being ditched by the big boys, for cost reasons, surely there's going to be a shortage of small operators willing to take on the routes eventually, if they keep being bought out by the big boys & looking at the Chase Bus situation on the other thread, I wouldn't hold my breath on them personally!

I can't really see NX adding Arriva Cannock ops causing too much interest from the Dft / Oft, especially if they were looking to invest & grow them. Select also run some routes in those areas, as will Rotala via Central Buses soon

By acquiring Arriva Wednesfield, Hanson's & Central Buses, Rotala have effectively removed three competitors for TfWM Black Country area tendered routes, which may help to push up prices and can obviously extract more profit from absorbing those independents due to synergies.

winston

Quote from: DeanM66A on February 06, 2018, 01:15:14 PM
Anybody if the price is right.  Especially independents established and grown by individuals who are tempted to cash in for their retirement.

A number of notable omissions from this morning's speculations:
the three smallish geographically separate First Midlands operations: Stoke, Leicester and Worcester;
Transdev - just acquired Rosso;
Go-Ahead - bought Swindon last year;
Claribels.

And I suspect that a careful watch is being kept on some of the remaining "municipalities".  How sustainable are some of these?  Look at the age profile of fleets such as Halton and Warrington.

First Midland Red Limited (Worcester) only made a £32k profit up to March 25th 2017, they reported a £1.28 Million loss the year prior on closure of Hereford.
Leicester Citybus is one of First UK Bus better performing op's, however profit fell from £3.39 Million in 2016 to £2.06 Million @ 25th March 2017.

Warrington are in the process of taking 13 x E200MMC's to up date their fleet, Halton appear to be struggling & I've seen online that Stagecoach are eyeing them up.

Tony

Quote from: Winston on February 06, 2018, 01:44:46 PM
First Midland Red Limited (Worcester) only made a £32k profit up to March 25th 2017, they reported a £1.28 Million loss the year prior on closure of Hereford.
Leicester Citybus is one of First UK Bus better performing op's, however profit fell from £3.39 Million in 2016 to £2.06 Million @ 25th March 2017.

Warrington are in the process of taking 13 x E200MMC's to up date their fleet, Halton appear to be struggling & I've seen online that Stagecoach are eyeing them up.

Do you know how First South Yorkshire are doing last year? They're another bit I have heard might be struggling.

winston

Quote from: Tony on February 06, 2018, 02:06:48 PM
Do you know how First South Yorkshire are doing last year? They're another bit I have heard might be struggling.

First South Yorkshire Limited £4.530 Million operating loss (25th March 2017) compared with £2.02 Million loss 2016
First Manchester Limited £5.164 Million loss (25th March 2017) compared with £1.273 Million profit 2016.

The figures are pretty dire across most First Group Opoco's,

Tony

Quote from: Winston on February 06, 2018, 02:16:16 PM
First South Yorkshire Limited £4.530 Million operating loss (25th March 2017) compared with £2.02 Million loss 2016
First Manchester Limited £5.164 Million loss (25th March 2017) compared with £1.273 Million profit 2016.

The figures are pretty dire across most First Group Opoco's,

You shouldn't be losing money in PTE areas. First West Yorkshire is still OK isn't it

winston

Quote from: Tony on February 06, 2018, 02:27:44 PM
You shouldn't be losing money in PTE areas. First West Yorkshire is still OK isn't it

FWY is £11.7 Million down from £16 Million the year before.

Ever heard of Google & Companies House.....😋🤣

While it's commendable that First are putting 41 new buses in to Kernow this year, they're never going to generate the growth & profit they could if put in to a PTE op.

Tony

Just looking at the Market capitalisation of the big 4 (which is the total value of the shares of the company)

£625,740,000 - Go-Ahead group
£780,890,000 - Stagecoach
£1,190,000,000 - First group
£1,800,000,000 - National Express

How times change, when NX were in danger of a takeover Stagecoach was a much more valuable company than National Express, Now NX are worth more than twice as much as Stagecoach.

winston

#1479
Exactly, hence my comments earlier that NX are well positioned to take advantage of the current market & potential sell off's.

Maybe NX could offer to merge with Stagecoach this time around, it's the only way Souter will get his hands on NXWM.....

the trainbasher

#1480
Quote from: Winston on February 06, 2018, 03:03:51 PM
Maybe NX could offer to merge with Stagecoach this time around, it's the only way Souter will get his hands on NXWM.....

Plus would be good for shareholders.


All opinions and onions mentioned on here are mine and not those of any employer, current, past, present or future, or presented as fact, unless I prove it otherwise.

andy41

I could have sworn this was the Central Buses thread?

winston


Kevin2017

#1483
One and all, the 3 deckers will be allocated to Tividale mainly for the 39 40 42, and will stray to other services that can take the deckers, all other allocations have yet to be confirmed.

21108   EU06KOX
21109   EU06KPA
30896   EU06WGM
21110   EU06JVW
30897   AE06ZBR
30898   AE06ZBT
21105   BU12LJL
21106   BU12LJN
30899   BU12LJO
21107   BU12LJV
30900   MX56YHA
20886   YJ59PKA
20887   YJ59PKE
20888   YJ59PKD
30901   YX63ZXK
30902   YX63ZXL
30903   YX64VLZ
30904   YJ57XVT
30905   YJ57XVW
30906   YJ57XVX
30907   YJ57XVY
30908   SK15GYA
40630   PN03UMJ
40631   PN03ULU
40632   PN03ULV
30909   YJ16DDL
30910   YJ16DDN
30911   YJ16DDO
30912   YJ16YJH
30913   YJ16YJJ
30914   YJ16YJK


Trident 4194


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