Whittles

[the trainbasher]

Basically @Ced this explains it

Employees who are employed in the undertaking which is being transferred have their employment transferred to the new employer. Employees can refuse to transfer (or "opt-out"), but depending on the circumstances of the case, they can lose valuable legal rights if they do. TUPE states that "all the transferor's rights, powers, duties and liabilities under or in connection with the transferring employees' contracts of employment are transferred to the transferee". This all-embracing concept encompasses rights under the contract of employment, statutory rights and continuity of employment and includes employees' rights to bring a claim against their employer for unfair dismissal, redundancy or discrimination, unpaid wages, bonuses or holidays and personal injury claims etc.
Employees therefore have the legal right to transfer to the new employer on their existing terms and conditions of employment and with all their existing employment rights and liabilities intact (although there are special provisions dealing with old age pensions under occupational pension schemes). Effectively, the new employer steps into the shoes of the old employer and it is as though the employee's contract of employment was always made with the new employer. For this reason it is essential that employers know all about the employees they might inherit if they are planning to take over a contract or buy a business and that they make sure that the contract protects them from any employment liabilities which arose before they became the employer. This is helped by the fact that the old employer is required to provide to the new employer written details of all employee rights and liabilities that will transfer (see below).
For example, if Armadillo plc has been carrying out a contract to supply an insurance company with IT services and then loses the contract to Bear Ltd, Bear Limited will not only take over the contract to supply IT services, but will also inherit all the employees of Armadillo plc who were formerly involved in supplying the IT services to the insurance company. If Armadillo plc has failed to pay its employees their wages for the past few weeks, Bear Limited will inherit the liability to the employees for the unpaid wages under TUPE.
Any dismissals will be automatically unfair, where the sole or principal reason for the dismissal is the transfer. This is also the case where the sole or principal reason for the dismissal is a reason connected to the transfer, unless it is for an economical, technical or organisational reason (an "ETO" reason) requiring a change in the workforce. This ETO defence is narrow in scope and can be difficult to rely upon. Even if the employer can rely upon an ETO defence and the dismissal is not automatically unfair, it may still be unfair for other reasons (such as a failure to consult properly in a redundancy situation).
As the new employer is required to take on the employees on their existing terms and conditions of employment, it is prohibited from making any changes to the terms and conditions of employment of the transferred employees if the sole or principal reason for the variation is the transfer. This is also the case where the sole or principal reason is connected to the transfer, unless there is an ETO reason for the change, usually requiring a change in number of the workforce. This often makes it difficult, if not impossible, for incoming employers to harmonise terms and conditions of employment of staff after a TUPE transfer.
Where an independent trade union has been recognised by the outgoing employer in respect of transferring employees, recognition will transfer to the incoming employer to the same extent.

[Cedric]

I have heard that they will initially keep the brand and the site on Foley Business park. Also some jobs are safe too with TUPE.

What does with TUPE mean pleas

Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment.

What I assume Johnsons will do is run Whittles as normal from Kidderminster as it sounds as though they have taken some staff over as well and they are staying there.

thanks for that info wonder if they will keep the whittle colours and  the coaches as most of them seam a bit old for the Johnson fleet

[BN]

I have heard that they will initially keep the brand and the site on Foley Business park. Also some jobs are safe too with TUPE.

What does with TUPE mean pleas

Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment.

What I assume Johnsons will do is run Whittles as normal from Kidderminster as it sounds as though they have taken some staff over as well and they are staying there.

thanks for that info wonder if they will keep the whittle colours and  the coaches as most of them seam a bit old for the Johnson fleet

Whittles coach fleet is fairly decent to be fair.

[Cedric]

I have heard that they will initially keep the brand and the site on Foley Business park. Also some jobs are safe too with TUPE.

What does with TUPE mean pleas

Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment.

What I assume Johnsons will do is run Whittles as normal from Kidderminster as it sounds as though they have taken some staff over as well and they are staying there.

thanks for that info wonder if they will keep the whittle colours and  the coaches as most of them seam a bit old for the Johnson fleet

Whittles coach fleet is fairly decent to be fair.

Aggree with you about coach fleet being  fairly  decent.
Something  missed  out in my last post   meant to say
about whittles volos are none standard  for Johnsons

[iamwilljh92]

Statement on Whittle's Facebook Page:

[StourportSam]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

[iamwilljh92]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Well as Johnsons is now officially running things I wonder they've bought them off EYMS perhaps because surely to god they'd of gone when the others did?..

[iamwilljh92]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Well as Johnsons is now officially running things I wonder they've bought them off EYMS perhaps because surely to god they'd of gone when the others did?..

Why would Johnsons have any interest in buying them?

Well who knows!!..

[StourportSam]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Well as Johnsons is now officially running things I wonder they've bought them off EYMS perhaps because surely to god they'd of gone when the others did?..

Why would Johnsons have any interest in buying them?

I presumed they were either awaiting driving up to Yorkshire or have been sold locally. I very much doubt Johnson's would have them though, looking at their bus fleet.

[iamwilljh92]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Well as Johnsons is now officially running things I wonder they've bought them off EYMS perhaps because surely to god they'd of gone when the others did?..

Why would Johnsons have any interest in buying them?

I presumed they were either awaiting driving up to Yorkshire or have been sold locally. I very much doubt Johnson's would have them though, looking at their bus fleet.

On the other hand maybe Coniston have purchased them now that would be good stuff

[Cedric]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Sam the only ones I have know have  not gone you to EYMS are 163/164/167/168/169.
and as for 163 that is shown on EYMS on website fleetlist as on loan to whittles  link
http://www.eyms.co.uk/enthusiasts/current-fleet-print  and 164 that was shown on uk bus fleetlists page
whittles list as withdrawn  so if you id 169  the other 2 where  more than likely 167/168.  and just guessing
from there age they could be waiting for  a vist from a  tow truck from Barnsley .

welcome to the new era

[StourportSam]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Sam the only ones I have know have  not gone you to EYMS are 163/164/167/168/169.
and as for 163 that is shown on EYMS on website fleetlist as on loan to whittles  link
http://www.eyms.co.uk/enthusiasts/current-fleet-print  and 164 that was shown on uk bus fleetlists page
whittles list as withdrawn  so if you id 169  the other 2 where  more than likely 167/168.  and just guessing
from there age they could be waiting for  a vist from a  tow truck from Barnsley .

welcome to the new era

164 was in use up until the last Saturday though and never withdrawn, it was a typo on the EYMS website which should have read 165 which was sold.

167, 168 and 169 seem in too good condition for scrapping - 165 and 166 were sold on for further use instead of scrapping last April. Who knows though, we will see.

[Cedric]

A couple of questions
NATEX liveried coaches 84- 89  are now at NATEX west mids Walsall depot list as on loan does this mean they will be coming back at any  time ?
what coaches  out 15-23 and 83  are now in Johnson ownership ?
and anyone know when the few remaining buses are leaving to go north, or are they sold locally  . or stopping

[Tony]

A couple of questions
NATEX liveried coaches 84- 89  are now at NATEX west mids Walsall depot list as on loan does this mean they will be coming back at any  time ?
what coaches  out 15-23 and 83  are now in Johnson ownership ?
and anyone know when the few remaining buses are leaving to go north, or are they sold locally  . or stopping

The National Express coaches are owned by East Yorkshire MS, and are on loan to West Midlands Travel from them at the moment.

EYMS will have three options
sell them to National Express group
put them in the East Yorkshire fleet to replace older coaches
sell them on the open market
when the loan ends

[Reece]

169 W694 EOP was still in yard this evening, along with two other Darts I couldn't ID.
Rather poignantly displaying 125 and sorry not in service on the blinds.

Other two were most likely to have been 167 and 168 but could have been 163 or 164 there.

Sam the only ones I have know have  not gone you to EYMS are 163/164/167/168/169.
and as for 163 that is shown on EYMS on website fleetlist as on loan to whittles  link
http://www.eyms.co.uk/enthusiasts/current-fleet-print  and 164 that was shown on uk bus fleetlists page
whittles list as withdrawn  so if you id 169  the other 2 where  more than likely 167/168.  and just guessing
from there age they could be waiting for  a vist from a  tow truck from Barnsley .

welcome to the new era

164 was in use up until the last Saturday though and never withdrawn, it was a typo on the EYMS website which should have read 165 which was sold.

167, 168 and 169 seem in too good condition for scrapping - 165 and 166 were sold on for further use instead of scrapping last April. Who knows though, we will see.

May be and this is just a may be Conistons may have been asked by the WCC if it would like to operate services 16 Stourport-Bewdley and the 580 Kidderminster-Kinver services? That may be why they might have acquired these 167, 168 and 169 exWhittles Dennis Dart MPDs if they have of course?