Whittles

[winston]

I'm willing to give the following odds on who buys it

RAPT 3/7
Abellio 5/1
NX 30/1
stagecoach 45/1
Rotala 50/1
return to independent 60/1
Other Groups 75/1
First 100/1
Arriva 250/1
Sunny Travel 1000/1

You'll never be a book maker with those odds on the favourite!

Just totted up if Rotala did purchase then Diamond would have a total of 50 vehicles at Kiddy (providing Diamond didn't withdraw any of the 19 vehicles Whittle currently operate)

Will, I doubt it would work like that if Rotala acquired the bus business or at least not for long. Whittle's would not doubt be adsorbed in to Diamond, the number of services soon rationalized & the combined pvr reduced. The Whittle's fleet could be used to update the existing Diamond fleet and allow older MPD's to be withdrawn, or EYMS may choose to keep the 6 x 56/57 plate E200's & the B10BLE/ALX300's for it's own fleet?

KR bus station will be like ghost town if Whittle's get sold.

[NXWM Spectra]

I'm willing to give the following odds on who buys it

RAPT 3/7
Abellio 5/1
NX 30/1
stagecoach 45/1
Rotala 50/1
return to independent 60/1
Other Groups 75/1
First 100/1
Arriva 250/1
Sunny Travel 1000/1

You'll never be a book maker with those odds on the favourite!

What's that Winston, are Sunny the favourite now?  ;D

[the trainbasher]

I'm willing to give the following odds on who buys it

RAPT 3/7
Abellio 5/1
NX 30/1
stagecoach 45/1
Rotala 50/1
return to independent 60/1
Other Groups 75/1
First 100/1
Arriva 250/1
Sunny Travel 1000/1

You'll never be a book maker with those odds on the favourite!

What's that Winston, are Sunny the favourite now?  ;D

Sunny are 1000/1 outsider

Rapt are 3/7 favourite

[NXWM Spectra]

I'm willing to give the following odds on who buys it

RAPT 3/7
Abellio 5/1
NX 30/1
stagecoach 45/1
Rotala 50/1
return to independent 60/1
Other Groups 75/1
First 100/1
Arriva 250/1
Sunny Travel 1000/1

You'll never be a book maker with those odds on the favourite!

What's that Winston, are Sunny the favourite now?  ;D

Sunny are 1000/1 outsider

Rapt are 3/7 favourite

Reading my post back made me realise it made no sense at all. Like a lot of things I say.

[tank90]

I'm willing to give the following odds on who buys it

RAPT 3/7
Abellio 5/1
NX 30/1
stagecoach 45/1
Rotala 50/1
return to independent 60/1
Other Groups 75/1
First 100/1
Arriva 250/1
Sunny Travel 1000/1

Why put First at 100/1. First are the masters of doing something way ward or odd. Personally I can't see Rotala buying Whittle's due to the OFT fees they had at Redditch it didn't help them at all. Sunny Travel may want to buy Whittle as it gives them a name with history of good and also a good livery to put its fleets into. I can't see Stagecoach buying it as its to far away from Gloucester and Stratford, if you lok at Stagecoach's map they have depots close together. Arriva more likely than Stagecoach as it has a base near by and a presents in the area. NX, well they sniffed at FMR RH and KR over two years ago so its likely they will have a look at Whittle. Johnson's would be another name to throw into the ring as they have ex First drivers from RH and KR I think. Abellio its to close to NX and Green Bus, RAPT they would be an outsider in my view unless you know of something we don't.

As for Independent well I throw my hat in there if I win euro millions tommorrow, if I don't then my hat is out.

[winston]

I'm willing to give the following odds on who buys it

RAPT 3/7
Abellio 5/1
NX 30/1
stagecoach 45/1
Rotala 50/1
return to independent 60/1
Other Groups 75/1
First 100/1
Arriva 250/1
Sunny Travel 1000/1

You'll never be a book maker with those odds on the favourite!

What's that Winston, are Sunny the favourite now?  ;D

Sunny are 1000/1 outsider

Rapt are 3/7 favourite

Nope, Rotala being way down at 50/1

If you could cover the bet, you could stick me down for a lump of cash on Rotala at 50/1  ;D Why does everyone suggest Abellio, they've bought no other bus businesses since acquiring Travel London from NX in 2009, they're more interested in trains.

My top 4 would be:

1. Rotala
2. RAPT
3. NX
4. Arriva

With Rotala only being interested in their bus operations

Another one for the bus business that's expanding rapidly that no-one has mentioned, WMSNT (aka Igo)?

Why put First at 100/1. First are the masters of doing something way ward or odd. Personally I can't see Rotala buying Whittle's due to the OFT fees they had at Redditch it didn't help them at all. Sunny Travel may want to buy Whittle as it gives them a name with history of good and also a good livery to put its fleets into. I can't see Stagecoach buying it as its to far away from Gloucester and Stratford, if you lok at Stagecoach's map they have depots close together. Arriva more likely than Stagecoach as it has a base near by and a presents in the area. NX, well they sniffed at FMR RH and KR over two years ago so its likely they will have a look at Whittle. Johnson's would be another name to throw into the ring as they have ex First drivers from RH and KR I think. Abellio its to close to NX and Green Bus, RAPT they would be an outsider in my view unless you know of something we don't.

As for Independent well I throw my hat in there if I win euro millions tommorrow, if I don't then my hat is out.

Another option, Diamond could just register competing services on the 125, 192 & any other bits of interest that Whittle operate commercially? Then not a lot left of the bus business for anyone to acquire & no concerns with the Oft, no doubt followed by closure.

[the trainbasher]

This is the reason I behind the odds

All of this is of course pure speculation...

RAPT 3/7 - Favourite due to the fact they're on the purchase of many operators they can get. Whittles is quite similar in parts to Selwyns in that the both run bus, schools, NX Contacts and days out. They're both PTE border opeators.
Abellio 5/1 - abellio are on a high at the moment. All they need is a few provincial bus operations and a coach business and they could be the next NX Group. Plus they seem to sniff in places where NX have been (London, Scotrail, Anglia...)
NX 30/1 - Could be the potential for a way to make a New Midland Red (notice the irony in both Midland Red and NX both being controlled at one time or another from the digbeth area...) plus also provide more competition between NX and Rotala
stagecoach 45/1 - Souter has made most things work, like Magic Bus, Megabus, Chester and the Wirral so why not Worcestershire. A base in Kiddy could set stagecoach up to take on NX to the north and Rotala in Redditch.
Rotala 50/1 - synergies could be attracted here in having one operator for the town a la Redditch. But watch out as the Authorities could investigate if we don't see another City Line Travel style set up come into place.
return to independent 60/1 - possible if the Whittles founding family want to repurchase it to set themselves back up, or if some enterprising businessman wanted a challenge
Other Groups 75/1 - Not really much chance of people like go ahead or Transdev wanting a go. It would be a failure for them.
First 100/1 - loads of debt and also they seem to want to concentrate on the profitable wyvern area of Worcester and Hereford.
Arriva 250/1 - Way out of area. Non core
Sunny Travel 1000/1 - although they've been on the buying table and would buy any operator for the right price, would sunny really want Whittles?

[Cedric]

Why put First at 100/1. First are the masters of doing something way ward or odd. Personally I can't see Rotala buying Whittle's due to the OFT fees they had at Redditch it didn't help them at all. Sunny Travel may want to buy Whittle as it gives them a name with history of good and also a good livery to put its fleets into. I can't see Stagecoach buying it as its to far away from Gloucester and Stratford, if you lok at Stagecoach's map they have depots close together. Arriva more likely than Stagecoach as it has a base near by and a presents in the area. NX, well they sniffed at FMR RH and KR over two years ago so its likely they will have a look at Whittle. Johnson's would be another name to throw into the ring as they have ex First drivers from RH and KR I think. Abellio its to close to NX and Green Bus, RAPT they would be an outsider in my view unless you know of something we don't.

As for Independent well I throw my hat in there if I win euro millions tommorrow, if I don't then my hat is out.

Another option, Diamond could just register competing services on the 125, 192 & any other bits of interest that Whittle operate commercially? Then not a lot left of the bus business for anyone to acquirea & no concerns with the Oft, no doubt followed by closure.

only leaves the 7 and 580 where diamond do not run on, the 2a/2c and 15   diamond service  run on a least part of the route. the 101 in bridgnorth may be more of interest to arriva as they run town services there. the only other routes I know of are school runs so they who have to be retender. that is of course if the worst happens and there Closure. which I hope not for the staff.

[winston]

This is the reason I behind the odds

All of this is of course pure speculation...

RAPT 3/7 - Favourite due to the fact they're on the purchase of many operators they can get. Whittles is quite similar in parts to Selwyns in that the both run bus, schools, NX Contacts and days out. They're both PTE border opeators.
Abellio 5/1 - abellio are on a high at the moment. All they need is a few provincial bus operations and a coach business and they could be the next NX Group. Plus they seem to sniff in places where NX have been (London, Scotrail, Anglia...)
NX 30/1 - Could be the potential for a way to make a New Midland Red (notice the irony in both Midland Red and NX both being controlled at one time or another from the digbeth area...) plus also provide more competition between NX and Rotala
stagecoach 45/1 - Souter has made most things work, like Magic Bus, Megabus, Chester and the Wirral so why not Worcestershire. A base in Kiddy could set stagecoach up to take on NX to the north and Rotala in Redditch.
Rotala 50/1 - synergies could be attracted here in having one operator for the town a la Redditch. But watch out as the Authorities could investigate if we don't see another City Line Travel style set up come into place.
return to independent 60/1 - possible if the Whittles founding family want to repurchase it to set themselves back up, or if some enterprising businessman wanted a challenge
Other Groups 75/1 - Not really much chance of people like go ahead or Transdev wanting a go. It would be a failure for them.
First 100/1 - loads of debt and also they seem to want to concentrate on the profitable wyvern area of Worcester and Hereford.
Arriva 250/1 - Way out of area. Non core
Sunny Travel 1000/1 - although they've been on the buying table and would buy any operator for the right price, would sunny really want Whittles?

I'm not sure Whittle's & KR would be of that much interest to NX due to the size of the operation/town & limited scope for expansion.

However, if NX were interested, I would have thought that it would have to been operated as a low cost unit with a similar age profile of vehicles to Diamond, might be a way to utilize some of the reserve fleet a little longer?

Bringing back the 'Midland Red' fleetname would be a good idea, although I'm not sure if anyone owns any rights to it?

Whilst any interested parties are negotiating for Whittle's, I wonder if Mr Shipp would be ready to part with EYMS if the right offer was tabled?

[111 Roughley]

With regard to Whittles bus services, there isn't much to buy except for the depot and whoever buys it has the prospect of a battle with Rotala. I'm sure igo would love it- and see how Rotala has reacted to the 145- but their ownership makes the raising of a capital sum difficult. With First it would break the unofficial non-aggression pact. If Stagecoach is to have a battle with anyone, it makes sense to battle with someone like Rotala. I expect them to double the 26 into Redditch at some point. Some 'upstart' could buy it and try to do to Rotala what Rotala did to First, but surely it would start in Redditch? I do think that it does slot in a bit with Arriva from their Shropshire base. But the favourite would be Rotala who would absorb it and remove competition- it's got to be worth more to them than anyone else. 

[Cedric]

With regard to Whittles bus services, there isn't much to buy except for the depot and whoever buys it has the prospect of a battle with Rotala. I'm sure igo would love it- and see how Rotala has reacted to the 145- but their ownership makes the raising of a capital sum difficult. With First it would break the unofficial non-aggression pact. If Stagecoach is to have a battle with anyone, it makes sense to battle with someone like Rotala. I expect them to double the 26 into Redditch at some point. Some 'upstart' could buy it and try to do to Rotala what Rotala did to First, but surely it would start in Redditch? I do think that it does slot in a bit with Arriva from their Shropshire base. But the favourite would be Rotala who would absorb it and remove competition- it's got to be worth more to them than anyone else. 

think the only bit that would arriva be interest in  is the 101 bridgnorth  town  service , and the bridgnorth section of the 125

[winston]

With regard to Whittles bus services, there isn't much to buy except for the depot and whoever buys it has the prospect of a battle with Rotala. I'm sure igo would love it- and see how Rotala has reacted to the 145- but their ownership makes the raising of a capital sum difficult. With First it would break the unofficial non-aggression pact. If Stagecoach is to have a battle with anyone, it makes sense to battle with someone like Rotala. I expect them to double the 26 into Redditch at some point. Some 'upstart' could buy it and try to do to Rotala what Rotala did to First, but surely it would start in Redditch? I do think that it does slot in a bit with Arriva from their Shropshire base. But the favourite would be Rotala who would absorb it and remove competition- it's got to be worth more to them than anyone else.

Whittle's is/was still a £4 Million+ turnover business up to end of Dec 2013, not sure what the bus/coach split is. Whittle's don't own the depot, they rent it.

think the only bit that would arriva be interest in  is the 101 bridgnorth  town  service , and the bridgnorth section of the 125

Arriva have recently closed their Bridgnorth outstation though.

[iamwilljh92]

think the only bit that would arriva be interest in  is the 101 bridgnorth  town  service , and the bridgnorth section of the 125

Arriva have recently closed their Bridgnorth outstation though.

Doesn't matter they operate the 297 from the Telford garage now so nothing to stop them operating the 101 (which they operated previously while at B/North I'd like to add) and operate the 125 from the TF garage also

[winston]

think the only bit that would arriva be interest in  is the 101 bridgnorth  town  service , and the bridgnorth section of the 125

Arriva have recently closed their Bridgnorth outstation though.

Doesn't matter they operate the 297 from the Telford garage now so nothing to stop them operating the 101 (which they operated previously while at B/North I'd like to add) and operate the 125 from the TF garage also

It's unlikely just those two routes would be available for Arriva to take on, they would no doubt have to buy the rest of the KR business to get those.

[Cedric]

what National express services do whittles run ?  and  how long is the tender for ?.