ATG, igo and Ring & Ride

[Straightlines]

Several years ago I was involved with the start up of igo with the aim of providing much needed funds to the important and much used Ring and Ride service. From day one, due to the dedication of many many fine people, igo grew to be a much respected and responsible operator.

I retired in 2015 but have watched igo continue to grow but just wondered how they were able to fund new vehicles. It looks like just perhaps they tried too hard, only time will tell.

I'm not sure the tender prices (some of which over the years were clearly below reasonably assumed costs) were ever going to provide any aspect of 'much needed funds' to the Ring and Ride service.

I just hope there is no negative impact from the demise of this operator to the socially necessary services that ATG provide for TfWM, BCC and the surrounding shire authorities and that the extensive staffing list will soon find alternate employment.

[Tony]

Here's the confirmation of what is going on
https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/2027789-%c2%a0-transport-group-calls-in-administrators?fbclid=IwAR1u_KPNjQPUGDBHTCJsh4Wqnl6kMPK_IJtdqNFlRS4atHpbZ4uOddkQ5pg#.XJVRZ_WpGAY.facebook

[igogeneral]

CT Plus are 'present' in the area ;-)

If Saturday is to be their last day, then my lasting memory of them will be of their local service performance today, going out the way they started - running with no relation to the timetable.

Sorry but that is a very misguided and ill informed comments which I think needs a response. Within only a few months of start up igo was seen to be one of the most reliable and punctual of all the small operators in the West Midlands. After only 2 years they were sat around the table with all of the larger operators discussing the long and short term future of local bus transport. What has happened over the last 3 years is to me a mystery, I wish I knew, but I am sure we will find out the real reason shortly

[Isle of Stroma]

Sorry but that is a very misguided and ill informed comments which I think needs a response. Within only a few months of start up igo was seen to be one of the most reliable and punctual of all the small operators in the West Midlands. After only 2 years they were sat around the table with all of the larger operators discussing the long and short term future of local bus transport. What has happened over the last 3 years is to me a mystery, I wish I knew, but I am sure we will find out the real reason shortly

I'll quantify my 'ill informed' comments:

The 'local service' (& its predecessor/s) referred to is familiar to me & was something I had responsibility for compliance monitoring for under a previous operator. My job necessitated me having a working understanding of what is required to be 'compliant'.

After the transfer to WMSNT (over 3 years ago, BTW), communication was made regarding 'problems' to the depot concerned, perception of which was they were oblivious to the problems (& requirements of a commercial operation), wished to remain so, & preferably weren't to be troubled with further contact. I've seen considerable evidence of 'non-compliance' in the intervening years on the route concerned, none of which I've since 'bothered' anyone with (I've made just one journey on the route in that time - which, anecdotally, was neither compliant time-wise, nor on two other counts...).

Yesterday (Friday), I went for a walk which gave cause to observe two journeys on the service involved, this was at a quiet period with no known traffic problems:

One was 14 minutes late.

The other was a no-show.

Oh, the CT Plus reference was a light-hearted response to the equally light-hearted suggestion that Hackney CT might become interested - with some spurious basis in truth, as there has been a CT+ vehicle parked amongst withdrawn Igo vehicles for the last few months.

[DJ]

Will the igo routes that haven't had replacements announced on the Network site still be running next week then, or are those routes not going to be running?

[Trident 4194]

Will the igo routes that haven't had replacements announced on the Network site still be running next week then, or are those routes not going to be running?

What will happen to the buses? I did like their solo SR used on the 10H/S

[Stu]

Will the igo routes that haven't had replacements announced on the Network site still be running next week then, or are those routes not going to be running?

The Network West Midlands website announcement does state:

Whilst the above services will no longer be operated by igo there will be no change to any of the timetables or routes.

All other igo services are scheduled to operate as normal.

[igogeneral]

I'll quantify my 'ill informed' comments:

The 'local service' (& its predecessor/s) referred to is familiar to me & was something I had responsibility for compliance monitoring for under a previous operator. My job necessitated me having a working understanding of what is required to be 'compliant'.

After the transfer to WMSNT (over 3 years ago, BTW), communication was made regarding 'problems' to the depot concerned, perception of which was they were oblivious to the problems (& requirements of a commercial operation), wished to remain so, & preferably weren't to be troubled with further contact. I've seen considerable evidence of 'non-compliance' in the intervening years on the route concerned, none of which I've since 'bothered' anyone with (I've made just one journey on the route in that time - which, anecdotally, was neither compliant time-wise, nor on two other counts...).

Yesterday (Friday), I went for a walk which gave cause to observe two journeys on the service involved, this was at a quiet period with no known traffic problems:

One was 14 minutes late.

The other was a no-show.

Oh, the CT Plus reference was a light-hearted response to the equally light-hearted suggestion that Hackney CT might become interested - with some spurious basis in truth, as there has been a CT+ vehicle parked amongst withdrawn Igo vehicles for the last few months.

Your original comment referred to when IGO started which was much more than 3 years ago. When it started it operated reliable and compliant services and as far as I am concerned did so until at least December 2015, what happened after that I have no idea as I was not there. Your reference to HCT may not be as far off the mark as some may think. ATG was formed based on the HCT model and both ATG and HCT are major organisations within the CTA. The majority of home to school drivers do not hold PSV, they are D1, so cannot drive for a commercial operation. Similarly vehicles are not PCV, they are S19, so for them to be operated short term by anyone other than a charity will be difficult. short to medium term I could only see local Councils taking the drivers and vehicles in house but they will certainly not want to do that long term

[mikestone]

I am at a loss as to why Dave47549 should leap to the conclusion my suggestion that HCT might have stepped in was not serious - my understanding was that they took over MCT while it was heading in the same direction.

[Isle of Stroma]

Your original comment referred to when IGO started which was much more than 3 years ago. When it started it operated reliable and compliant services and as far as I am concerned did so until at least December 2015

No, it specifically referred to a local route operated by Igo/wmsnt, which commenced operation on that route sometime between April & July 2015*. If you still wish to misinterpret that, then:

- Igo (as a brand) came in by Autumn 2014
- 'Proper' wmsnt bus ops commenced by Feb 2012
- Pseudo-proper wmsnt routes were running by the mid 90's

Take your pick from those three, they all pre-date December 2015.

* I'd quote you the specific date, but, despite wmsnt holding a full op licence, it's apparently a section 19 registration, details not available online.

[Isle of Stroma]

I am at a loss as to why Dave47549 should leap to the conclusion my suggestion that HCT might have stepped in was not serious

Nor me. This was taken on Friday*:


* Don't read anything into it.

[Steveminor]

Guys we're losing sight of the fact several hundred people are about to lose their jobs. Our thoughts should be on those people at this time. I know a few people personally including Dave sterland. I wish them well for now & for their futures.

[igogeneral]

No, it specifically referred to a local route operated by Igo/wmsnt, which commenced operation on that route sometime between April & July 2015*. If you still wish to misinterpret that, then:

- Igo (as a brand) came in by Autumn 2014
- 'Proper' wmsnt bus ops commenced by Feb 2012
- Pseudo-proper wmsnt routes were running by the mid 90's

Take your pick from those three, they all pre-date December 2015.

* I'd quote you the specific date, but, despite wmsnt holding a full op licence, it's apparently a section 19 registration, details not available online.

I am not going to enter into a Facebook type battle here so this is my last on the subject. Not sure what you mean by Pseudo proper means and we were not running registered bus routes in the 90's, perhaps you mean home to school routes which first appeared in 1992 on a very small scale. igo started as WMSNT buses and the name was changed after we held a competition to find a more suitable name, no services changed because of the name change. Local bus services cannot run under section 19, perhaps you are confused with section 22. Finally read your original comment again as not once did you mention a specific route or service number, your comment was a general one aimed at igo. That's me, I will now wait and see what happens this week.

[igogeneral]

Guys we're losing sight of the fact several hundred people are about to lose their jobs. Our thoughts should be on those people at this time. I know a few people personally including Dave sterland. I wish them well for now & for their futures.

Bang on, my thoughts are with them all

[Isle of Stroma]

Not sure what you mean by Pseudo proper means and we were not running registered bus routes in the 90's

At least one route was in operation. I was given a timetable for a (non school run) centro 6xx tendered route running in the Selly Oak area around 1994ish give or take a year. I went looking for it one day, one trip failed to show, the next was late. My centro pass was refused too...

Local bus services cannot run under section 19, perhaps you are confused with section 22.

You're correct, an error on my part whilst researching route registrations.

Finally read your original comment again as not once did you mention a specific route or service number, your comment was a general one aimed at igo.

Reading again, it's meaning is open to misinterpretation. "of their local service performance today, going out the way they started - running with no relation to the timetable" referred to a specific route & backed with two observations on that date - 14 minutes late & a no-show.

Guys we're losing sight of the fact several hundred people are about to lose their jobs. Our thoughts should be on those people at this time.

I've had my share, both at the hands of receivers, & the political mindset that leads to job losses (& had my fill of the ****s that make those decisions). It's not a nice place to be & I wish them well.

I too won't pursue this difference of opinion further. Arguing from different sides of the fence as to the merits or otherwise of a contractor is irrelevant against potential further job losses. (Although significant, 700 pales in comparison to the millions of job losses so far this decade). we should not propagate the situation further.