Cannock Garage

[MW]

Or lasting service investment either!

Cue Rotala. They'd probably do alright up there, what with all the ground breaking cost cutting methods within the company.

They seem to do well where larger companies don't though, probably due to the lower costs.

[mranon]

select are also doing the 12 in competition

[Bob]

Staffords network is dying to be fair

[Westy]

Someone on Facebook is going to write a letter to Arriva about introducing a Brownhills to Lichfield service.

All I'm gonna say is 'Best Of British' to them, as Arriva like cutting services at the drop of a hat I've noticed.

Has Arriva ever improved a route?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1189444884454753?view=permalink&id=1454987327900506

Basically someone has organised a meeting with local Arriva management.

[Walsall1955]

Regarding the potential for a Lichfield - Brownhills link this has been tried on several occasions and found to be non-viable, some examples from memory being:

In the 1960's WCT service number 62 (Brownhills-Lichfield) peak hours only
In the 1960's WCT service number 960 [Beeching rail relacement] (Lichfield - Brownhills - Wolverhampton) peak hours only

In the pre deregulation era MRN 813 (Brownhills-Lichield) market day service

Around 1985 or 1986 short-lived exension of WMPTE Walsall - Burntwood service 394 to Lichfield

In more recent years Arriva, around 2007, combining Chase 94 with their own 861 to provide an extended service 861 (Walsall - Burntwood - Lichfield)

In the wake of WMT withdrawing from 991, a service 95 was introduced by a company that either already was or soon became part of Rotala (Zaks?)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/12999825374/

So history shows a lack of commercial success for bus links between Brownhills and Lichfield.

So this leaves the options of subsidy (unlikely as it looks like Staffordshire currently would like to stop subsidising bus services) or commercial sponsorship (again unlikely - in the good old days of Brownhills Market the Spook company would have been a likely candidate - they sponsored a Bloxwich service for a while).

Now, if WMT (NXWM) were to cutback service 10 to Brownhills (ie. abandon the outside Walsall MBC section of the route) then perhaps some opportunity might arise.

[Westy]

Regarding the potential for a Lichfield - Brownhills link this has been tried on several occasions and found to be non-viable, some examples from memory being:

In the 1960's WCT service number 62 (Brownhills-Lichfield) peak hours only
In the 1960's WCT service number 960 [Beeching rail relacement] (Lichfield - Brownhills - Wolverhampton) peak hours only

In the pre deregulation era MRN 813 (Brownhills-Lichield) market day service

Around 1985 or 1986 short-lived exension of WMPTE Walsall - Burntwood service 394 to Lichfield

In more recent years Arriva, around 2007, combining Chase 94 with their own 861 to provide an extended service 861 (Walsall - Burntwood - Lichfield)

In the wake of WMT withdrawing from 991, a service 95 was introduced by a company that either already was or soon became part of Rotala (Zaks?)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/12999825374/

So history shows a lack of commercial success for bus links between Brownhills and Lichfield.

So this leaves the options of subsidy (unlikely as it looks like Staffordshire currently would like to stop subsidising bus services) or commercial sponsorship (again unlikely - in the good old days of Brownhills Market the Spook company would have been a likely candidate - they sponsored a Bloxwich service for a while).

Now, if WMT (NXWM) were to cutback service 10 to Brownhills (ie. abandon the outside Walsall MBC section of the route) then perhaps some opportunity might arise.

Think you find the combined Arriva 861 & Chase 94 became Arriva 61.

Will have to check my old timetables, but while the 394 to Lichfield was cut back prederegulation, I thought that and its predecessors always ran to Lichfield, unless I'm confusing it with the Walsall /early Wmpte version of the later Midland Red (now Arriva) Cannock to Lichfield service.

It was Zaks that ran the 95 service, but who knew about it? My elder brother & sis in law lived in the Pelsall / Brownhills area at the area(Sis in law worked in Lichfield at the time!) & bro knew nothing of the route,  when I asked him about it, as he thought he could have caught it to meet the sis in law for lunch! The only routes known about would have been the 61 & the 991!

[Bob]

Im sure it would be a roaring success, like Wednesfield and Cannocks services....

[Kevin]

To be fair, what's wrong with the 35 from Shire Oak?

[Walsall1955]

Think you find the combined Arriva 861 & Chase 94 became Arriva 61.

Will have to check my old timetables, but while the 394 to Lichfield was cut back prederegulation, I thought that and its predecessors always ran to Lichfield, unless I'm confusing it with the Walsall /early Wmpte version of the later Midland Red (now Arriva) Cannock to Lichfield service.

It was Zaks that ran the 95 service, but who knew about it? My elder brother & sis in law lived in the Pelsall / Brownhills area at the area(Sis in law worked in Lichfield at the time!) & bro knew nothing of the route,  when I asked him about it, as he thought he could have caught it to meet the sis in law for lunch! The only routes known about would have been the 61 & the 991!

AGREED re 61 (rather than 861).

The WMPTE 394 extension from Burntwood to Lichield was prederegulation and shortlived (at the time I got the impression that it was introduced as part of a negotiating ploy in connection with other services that were overlapped by MRN / WMPTE).
Burntwood to Lichfield was once WMPTE (WCT) territory but provided by 390 (47) from Cannock and 398 (44) from Boney Hay, both services passing to MRN in 1980 under WMPTE's retreat from Staffordshire policy.

[Westy]

AGREED re 61 (rather than 861).

The WMPTE 394 extension from Burntwood to Lichield was prederegulation and shortlived (at the time I got the impression that it was introduced as part of a negotiating ploy in connection with other services that were overlapped by MRN / WMPTE).
Burntwood to Lichfield was once WMPTE (WCT) territory but provided by 390 (47) from Cannock and 398 (44) from Boney Hay, both services passing to MRN in 1980 under WMPTE's retreat from Staffordshire policy.

Looking at the old timetables, the 394 would have been Walsall to Lichfield as early as 1980(the Chaserider revisions!) & ceased at some point before October 1985, as that Wmpte North Division timetable book shows it running Walsall to Burntwood by then.

Prior to 1980, the 394 was running Walsall to Hednesford via Brownhills, Chase Terrace & Heath Hayes.(according to Wmpte area map of December 1974, it had started as the 294, being renumbered to 394 around the time of the Walsall area timetable  dated 6th Feb 1977. I don't have anything for 1976 sorry!)

[BusMan Greg]

If this proposed route succeeds could there be a possibility of it going through Hammerwich due to the 61 taking over from the 15's

[Bob]

Wonder how much longer itll be before they get rid of the Streets####s?

[Walsall1955]

Looking at the old timetables, the 394 would have been Walsall to Lichfield as early as 1980(the Chaserider revisions!) & ceased at some point before October 1985, as that Wmpte North Division timetable book shows it running Walsall to Burntwood by then.

Prior to 1980, the 394 was running Walsall to Hednesford via Brownhills, Chase Terrace & Heath Hayes.(according to Wmpte area map of December 1974, it had started as the 294, being renumbered to 394 around the time of the Walsall area timetable  dated 6th Feb 1977. I don't have anything for 1976 sorry!)

Fares list dated 1 May 1975 shows
285 (Walsall -Brownhills-Chasetown-BoneyHay) hourly
294 (Walsall -Brownhills-Chasetown-Burntwood-Hednesford) hourly
Burntwood & Boney Hay to Lichfield were service numbers 44 + 47 at this time

Map dated November 1976 shows:
385 (Walsall -Brownhills-Chasetown-BoneyHay)
394 (Walsall -Brownhills-Chasetown-Burntwood-Hednesford)
Burntwood & Boney Hay to Lichfield were service numbers 390/1/8/9 at this time

August 1980 saw the transfer of services to Arriva, a last day photo being:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walsall1955/4590284006/in/photolist-H8AM9T-bz8AYs-aAfkjj-aAfkj5-9TNWB1-9ARdR2-9ARdRc-94fiXP-8dLnWc-85U1LZ-85vDhD-7ZCpvG-7Zz2px

[Westy]

So was there a Wmpte Walsall area timetable dated 1976?

[Justin Tyme]

So was there a Wmpte Walsall area timetable dated 1976?

I don't believe so, but WMPTE issued a booklet for Staffordshire revisions (reductions) to Walsall garage services that took place in September/October 1976.  If I recall correctly this included the final renumbering of services from the old Walsall Corporation series and the 200 series into the 300 series.  I think this included the 285 and 294 becoming 385 and 394.  Until 1973 the 294 was numbered 5 - the old Walsall Corporation used from when the service started in 1920 (initially as Walsall Wood tram terminus - Hednesford; it was extended to Walsall in 1927).

Other changes of note at that time included the splitting of the 1 (Walsall - Cannock - Hednesford - Rugeley) in two - the 301/2 Dudley - Walsall - Hednesford and the 303 Cannock - Rugeley, and the disappearance of the 28 (Rugeley town service) and 45/46 (Lichfield market day services).

WMPTE also made other major changes to services operated by Walsall garage in 1976 (e.g. around Willenhall and the Walsall - Bloxwich services) for which booklets were also produced.