Cannock and Birmingham

[Tony]

Fair enough £6 is expensive but not much more as in Birmingham more council tax is paid to subsidise cheap bus fares so hence people can pay less. Whereas, outside the Birmingham border eg Worcestershire their fares are more expensive as they pay less council tax.

Birmingham's council tax does not subsidise 'cheap fares' in any way other than it goes towards letting childrenb pay half fare as opposed to the two thirds fares children pay in most of the rest of the country

[Bob]

thats probably true. That B£&@h Thatcher ruined the bus industry, saying that deregulation would promote competition and reduce publicly owned monopolies. what utter crap all it has done is create private monopolies! Rotten awful
woman

[Discodave]

well why does part of my council tax in walsall go to centro then it must have some reflection on fares not just child ones and bus subsidies according to my former collegeues at arriva there council tax is cheaper in cannock/stafford due to no pte to pay for.

[Discodave]

i just used to get a daysaver, thats not correct about the demand not being there in rural /arriva areas, both stafford services and others are very busy and yet they charge expensive fares, also half the vehicles used are rubbish!!

There are actually quite new buses on stafford/cannock routes plus decent buses on the x31 and all cross border are low floor arrivas policy of new vehicles is if the routes do not perform they do not get new buses as they need to pay for themselves like most businesses.  I have done all recent cross border routes and usually only are busy in peaks except saturdays the new concessonary pass has now made most routes lose a lot of money due to what they get back from the relevent councils/pte some daytime journeys are busy but nothing on the scale of nxwm routes

[Bob]

I still think there is a market for a Cannock to Birmingham service, but think it was stupid to route it down the motorway as it can be unreliable. The local 25/26 service is one of the busiest, yet often has the worst buses running on it. The X31 sometimes has 13 yr old Volvos running on it, not always the scanias. I think buses should be under public ownership and run as a public service not private profiteering anyway, like everything else that she sold off.

[arrifirststage]

well why does part of my council tax in walsall go to centro then it must have some reflection on fares not just child ones and bus subsidies according to my former collegeues at arriva there council tax is cheaper in cannock/stafford due to no pte to pay or.quote] 
This is the type of comment that shows how little some members understand about the structure and development of the bus industry.
An interest in buses should involve some knowlege of history and infrastructure.
Can it be made very clear.......CENTRO AND NX WEST MIDLANDS HAVE NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER.
NXWM,Arriva,Rotala and Uncle Tom Cobley OPERATE BUSES.
CENTRO try to run an infrastructure in which the public can benefit at minimal cost.ANY subsidy paid to an operator IS ILLEGAL.

[PM]

i am hugely in favour of deregulation. Thatcher's idea of competition was a great one and the private sector such as stagecoach and go ahead have done far better jobs of increasing marketing and patronage. However, it only works with two high quality operators in competition. WMtravel should have been split into many bits so then there could be competition between them resulting in a good deal for the passenger. For me, its just a shame that Souter didnt buy WMT as instead of simply managing decline like NXWM does, he would actually buy more new buses, increase patronage and marketing such as in Oxford where deregulation has been a HUGE success. Two high quality operators competing offering low fares-believe me I use Oxford's buses quite regularly-and both increasing Patronage. The idea of PTEs with their excessively high subsides eg South Yorkshire was useless and the thought that Nexus wants to control bus services scares me to be honest. Tho Im sure Stagecoach and Go Ahead will take a stand against this, both being opposed. Quite rightly politicians shouldnt control transport as what do they know about it. Sorry, rant over!!

[Tony]

i am hugely in favour of deregulation. Thatcher's idea of competition was a great one and the private sector such as stagecoach and go ahead have done far better jobs of increasing marketing and patronage. However, it only works with two high quality operators in competition. WMtravel should have been split into many bits so then there could be competition between them resulting in a good deal for the passenger. For me, its just a shame that Souter didnt buy WMT as instead of simply managing decline like NXWM does, he would actually buy more new buses, increase patronage and marketing such as in Oxford where deregulation has been a HUGE success. Two high quality operators competing offering low fares-believe me I use Oxford's buses quite regularly-and both increasing Patronage. The idea of PTEs with their excessively high subsides eg South Yorkshire was useless and the thought that Nexus wants to control bus services scares me to be honest. Tho Im sure Stagecoach and Go Ahead will take a stand against this, both being opposed. Quite rightly politicians shouldnt control transport as what do they know about it. Sorry, rant over!!

I agree with a lot of what you say, but Manchester proves splitting NXWM into two wouldn't necesarily have worked. First and Stagecoach don't really compete. First's fleet looked in a fairly bad state when I was up there two weeks ago. Tatty ex London step entrance olympians with a very poor single door conversion out in all day service on a saturday is not a good image, and even Stagecoach who you say would have bought more new buses still haven't managed to eliminate step entrance buses.

[Bob]

All deregulation has led to is Private monopolies, also privatisation has had similar crap effects in other industries, eg i would say Councils are far better landlords than private housing associations, who provide a similar sometimes poorer level of service than councils at far higher rents, and also look at the railways!

[Tony]

well why does part of my council tax in walsall go to centro then it must have some reflection on fares not just child ones and bus subsidies according to my former collegeues at arriva there council tax is cheaper in cannock/stafford due to no pte to pay or.quote] 
This is the type of comment that shows how little some members understand about the structure and development of the bus industry.
An interest in buses should involve some knowlege of history and infrastructure.
Can it be made very clear.......CENTRO AND NX WEST MIDLANDS HAVE NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER.
NXWM,Arriva,Rotala and Uncle Tom Cobley OPERATE BUSES.
CENTRO try to run an infrastructure in which the public can benefit at minimal cost.ANY subsidy paid to an operator IS ILLEGAL.

The money that goes to CENTRO pays for all sorts of things, some I agree with, some I don't, but in no way does it go towards lower fares.
Some of it even goes towards diverting the A45 in Bickenhill so the runway at Bimringham Airport can be extended. Believe it or not some of it also goes towards operating trains between Bloxwich North and Rugeley, even though it it outside the Centro area. Centro have powers to support rail services up to 20 miles outside their actual area if they think it will give benefits to services inside their area

[Bob]

is that why theyre supporting the X31 then?

[Tony]

is that why theyre supporting the X31 then?

Reading the latest bit about this in the Express & Star it says Arriva have agreed to carry on running the X31 until September with funding from both Centro & Staffs CC, so presumably Centro are supporting the West Midlands bit & staffs the rest

[Bob]

Apparently arriva are running it til sept while a more secure longer term areangement is sought. what would you make of that? another operator poss??

[PM]

All deregulation has led to is Private monopolies, also privatisation has had similar crap effects in other industries, eg i would say Councils are far better landlords than private housing associations, who provide a similar sometimes poorer level of service than councils at far higher rents, and also look at the railways!

Deregulation hasnt led to private sector monopolies and institutions such as the MMC and OFT ensure fair play for all. How can you argue that in areas served by stagecoach and go-ahead services have markedly improved under the private sector. The problem with the public sector industries manifested itself in the 1970s with people constantly on strike and crippling the entire country. And anyway why should the government control buses? What business does it have with them-politicians know NOTHING about how to run buses, other than Boris Johnson. Feel free to disagree with me here!! Thatcher was against privatising railways as I am-there is no competition and merely higher fares. Would you say that Britain's coach services are not better now than when nationalised and there is a lot more investment. Megabus and NX competing and giving us a great deal. Look to Jaguar Land Rover-way better than when nationalised, when it would not have had such levels of investment and quality and be growing so successfully to conquer the globe. Anyone feel free to disagree with me but I think deregualtion was the best bus idea of the decade and the 1968 transport act destroyed BET (did it have bad service levels) and ripped the heart out of Midland Red, thhe country's best and most innovative bus opertaor.

[Bob]

I disagree i'm afraid. WMPTE were far better than todays set up, they invested just as much in new buses, were innovative ( travel cards/ centre bus etc), just as much as private operators. Also it was run as a public service, profit shouldnt come into it. Also, by 1990 Thatcher had begun to accept the case for privatisation of rail, come one seriously, are you suggesting that if she hadnt have resigned that bitch would have left ANYTHING under public ownership?