Diamond Bus Service Changes 15th April 2023

[j789]

@j789 Whilst I agree with what you are saying about central government funding, how do you deal with the big elephants in the room. Namely, whilst NX, Diamond and Chaserider would probably put funding to good use, others would simply increase management bonuses and shareholder payments whilst paying lip service to route improvements/protection they would use to justify said payments.

Secondly, central government interferene. If the political news is to be believed today, central government are restricting pots of monies to councils for certain things unless they agree to the Civil Service policy of how to clear chewing gum from Park Benches. I would not want such micro management of the bus industry, even if it wasn't privatised.

Thirdly if we have private firms receiving public money, the return should be innovation and not less of the same failed routes. I suggested an extension to the 16, @Westy has made some other good suggestions. How do you ensure that so routes such as the 45,  002 and 226 can live on?

Interesting points you make here from my previous comments. I'd suggest any subsidy should come with stringent conditions that the current level of service must be maintained as a minimum. 

The subsidy would cover the running costs to make the service break even, not necessarily profitable, eg the company would not lose money operating the service but may not make much of a profit either. This is a 'halfway house' solution that operators would need to accept. Share holders probably wouldn't be in favour be for 'the greater good' I'd hope most operators would see the short term need for this over the next few years.

No company is perfect but it would be an easy system to police from s government perspective. Paying a set amount per service would ensure any private company profiteering was kept to a minimum whilst at the same time helping those same companies not have to have so much commercial risk in their operations- that is a win win situation in my eyes compared to the alternative of doing nothing except hiking fares and withdrawing services. 

[Westy]

I have shared Stu's article from his website onto the Walsall Chit Chat & Natter Facebook page & so far predictably the comments have been along the lines of 'Surprised' & 'We need a bus on the Yew Tree' !

[Westy]

@Stu - Do you think we need a split off, at this point? Post 1817 would be a good place to start.

[j789]

I'm not suggesting there should be any 'massive' increase in fares, but a realistic 'modest' increase might help matters.
During the Covid pandemic, the government did its level best to discourage and dissuade people from using buses because they were 'unsafe' and that people "might die".
That kind of messaging is quite damaging, admittedly, however I don't think increased subsidies are any kind of viable long-term solution, and while the Government is partly responsible for this mess, I don't think that using public taxpayers money to support private commercial enterprise is a good viable long-term solution.

That messaging put out during COVID is the exact(!!!) reason why the government should put these subsidies in place. Even the service decreases in 1986 caused by de-regulation didn't have the same negative impact as what has happened since 2020. The government owes this industry big time.

All the criticism of NX, Diamond, etc for withdrawing services should be redirected to the politicians who created this situation - they could have handled things so much better and without the negatives now associated with bus (and to a lesser extent train) travel. Those passengers may well be lost forever despite what innovations operators try.

I know it doesn't sit well with some people bailing out private companies, but I think the context those companies operate in needs to be fairly weighed up. The bus industry is in trouble and it is only with public financial help that things can at least start to get back on track.

[Justin Tyme]

Interesting points you make here from my previous comments. I'd suggest any subsidy should come with stringent conditions that the current level of service must be maintained as a minimum.

The subsidy would cover the running costs to make the service break even, not necessarily profitable, eg the company would not lose money operating the service but may not make much of a profit either. This is a 'halfway house' solution that operators would need to accept. Share holders probably wouldn't be in favour be for 'the greater good' I'd hope most operators would see the short term need for this over the next few years.

No company is perfect but it would be an easy system to police from s government perspective. Paying a set amount per service would ensure any private company profiteering was kept to a minimum whilst at the same time helping those same companies not have to have so much commercial risk in their operations- that is a win win situation in my eyes compared to the alternative of doing nothing except hiking fares and withdrawing services.

Am I right in thinking that this is what the Covid Bus Service Support Grant did, and (to a lesser extent) the Bus Recovery Grant is doing until the end of March?

[j789]

Am I right in thinking that this is what the Covid Bus Service Support Grant did, and (to a lesser extent) the Bus Recovery Grant is doing until the end of March?

Yes pretty much very similar to that idea, it's just that there shouldn't be a 'end' date to it, it should run for as long as necessary for the industry to get back on its feet. March 2023 is certainly far too soon for this help to be ending.

[Rachvince53]

I realise, we're probably starting to go off topic here, so if it ends up being split, fair enough, but I'd rather see the context kept together for now, but anyway, when was the last major fare increase in the area(The one that happened at the start of the year normally!)?

I'm thinking in the mid 10's.

If we had kept the annual increase, instead of freezing every year since, would we be in this situation, with or without the pandemic to account?

Are we now (excuse the language) 'having our **** handed to us on a plate'?

Sure, it's been nice no major fare increases for the past few years, but surely deep down, we knew this couldn't last forever.

It'll be interesting to see how big the future increase might be.

You are correct. Ignoring the current £2 fares scheme which while handy is more of a gimmick, fares have risen just about everywhere else as far as I know.  Had fares gone up then perhaps companies wouldn't be in the position many find themselves in. As the saying goes, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Ginger66]

It appears Diamond won't be running the following services after this date, 002; 45; 226.

[Ginger66]

Sorry - didn't see it.
Best to close this then?

I didn't see it on here but if there are multiple service changes on this day surely it is better to discuss under the west Midlands general topic.

Image if stagecoach goes for the 45 service from Walsall to West Bromwich 

[monkeyjoe]

Wonder if stagecoach will take them on   

[bususer12]

I would assume the 226 would go straight to tender as the evening and Sunday part already is so passes TFWM criteria? Maybe hourly though?

Didn't see the benefit of 226 going to Wall Heath, I'm sure the numerous 205 and 15E extensions by NX were requested by locals and not used.

002 has a decent chunk of route where it is the only service so would it be saved too?

[2206]

002 has a decent chunk of route where it is the only service

All of it seems to have other services.
Colley Gate all the way through to Howley Grange Road has the 9.
Bartley Green to Halesowen has the 202.
Weoley Castle to Bartley Green has the X21 albeit via Gregory Avenue.
Lyde Green the 18 and the remaing section into Merry Hill the X10.

There only appears to be only 3 odd stops on the whole route where its the only service, which I wouldn't consider to be a decent chunk.

[Westy]

I didn't see it on here but if there are multiple service changes on this day surely it is better to discuss under the west Midlands general topic.

Image if stagecoach goes for the 45 service from Walsall to West Bromwich

If they don't sort out a depot for round here asap, more of what's happening currently will happen!

[Ginger66]

Wonder if stagecoach will take them on   

Stagecoach Midlands
#walsall-Westbrom Due to unforseen circumstances the following service won't be in operation today Monday 17/04/23
45 West Bromwich - Walsall
04:30; 05:10
45Walsall - West Bromwich
05:10;
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused

[Ginger66]

If they don't sort out a depot for round here asap, more of what's happening currently will happen!

Didn't Arriva have a satalite depot in the Hill Top area of West Bromwich.