Shrewsbury Big Town Plan

[Pat]

https://shrewsburybigtownplan.org/

Looking at the new plans for Shrewsbury, it mentions the park & ride and the proposals for it. 

Rural/out of town services will terminate at the park & ride sites, with passengers having to transfer onto p&r buses into the town centre.

This is an utterly stupid proposal, which will undoubtedly put people off using public transport and ultimately have a knock on effect on the town centre.  The people who've dreamt up this obviously never use buses. 

[j789]

https://shrewsburybigtownplan.org/

Looking at the new plans for Shrewsbury, it mentions the park & ride and the proposals for it. 

Rural/out of town services will terminate at the park & ride sites, with passengers having to transfer onto p&r buses into the town centre.

This is an utterly stupid proposal, which will undoubtedly put people off using public transport and ultimately have a knock on effect on the town centre.  The people who've dreamt up this obviously never use buses.

Perhaps not so bad if the plan also includes removing town centre car parks and encouraging everyone to either park out of town or use public transport. I'd hope this would form part of any such plan.

[Pat]

Perhaps not so bad if the plan also includes removing town centre car parks and encouraging everyone to either park out of town or use public transport. I'd hope this would form part of any such plan.

But the thing is, people using the rural services would be inconvenienced as they'd have to catch two buses as opposed to one.  Very inconvenient for those with disabilities etc.  Town services would still be able to access the town, it seems.

[j789]

Perhaps those rural services may become more profitable running shorter journeys to the edge of the town and not having to lose time in heavy traffic or pay additional bus station fees etc etc. As long as the park and ride frequency is at least every 10 minutes I can't see many people complaining. I have used the current Shrewsbury park and ride several times when going into the town or to the New Meadow football stadium, I think it's certainly one of the better park and ride systems.

[Justin Tyme]

https://shrewsburybigtownplan.org/

Rural/out of town services will terminate at the park & ride sites, with passengers having to transfer onto p&r buses into the town centre.

This is an utterly stupid proposal, which will undoubtedly put people off using public transport and ultimately have a knock on effect on the town centre.  The people who've dreamt up this obviously never use buses.

I couldn't agree more.  It's a plan you would come up with if you wanted to put off bus passengers from travelling to Shrewsbury and encourage them to go to other towns instead.  I see that edge-of-town-centre car parking will still be available.

People don't change cars, and a plan to force an artificial change of bus will not work.  Just one instance of a missed connection from a frequent P&R to an hourly (or worse) rural service will drive people away.

Oxford wanted to do something similar about ten years ago, but fortunately Oxford Bus Company and Stagecoach were able to persuade the County Council against the idea.

[Pat]

Perhaps those rural services may become more profitable running shorter journeys to the edge of the town and not having to lose time in heavy traffic or pay additional bus station fees etc etc. As long as the park and ride frequency is at least every 10 minutes I can't see many people complaining. I have used the current Shrewsbury park and ride several times when going into the town or to the New Meadow football stadium, I think it's certainly one of the better park and ride systems.

That would make them lose money!  The whole purpose of rural services is to connect these areas with towns and cities.  Curtailing them would make them pointless.  Anyway, inter urban services, such as the X4/5 are classed as rural in this case.

It's not really about the frequency or the quality of the service.  It's the prospect of having to catch two buses as opposed to one. 

[ellspurs]

I couldn't agree more.  It's a plan you would come up with if you wanted to put off bus passengers from travelling to Shrewsbury and encourage them to go to other towns instead.  I see that edge-of-town-centre car parking will still be available.

People don't change cars, and a plan to force an artificial change of bus will not work.  Just one instance of a missed connection from a frequent P&R to an hourly (or worse) rural service will drive people away.

Oxford wanted to do something similar about ten years ago, but fortunately Oxford Bus Company and Stagecoach were able to persuade the County Council against the idea.

One of the Park and Ride sites is at Meole Brace, where there is already a huge shopping centre.

Another one is at Harlescott, where again there is a large Tesco and a bunch of other shops.

A lot of people won't travel onto the town unless there is a specific reason for it; they'll go to wherever the out-of-town dumps them.

Removing the town centre parking and letting the buses continue as normal would probably be more beneficial.

[Tony]

That would make them lose money!  The whole purpose of rural services is to connect these areas with towns and cities.  Curtailing them would make them pointless.  Anyway, inter urban services, such as the X4/5 are classed as rural in this case.

It's not really about the frequency or the quality of the service.  It's the prospect of having to catch two buses as opposed to one.

Fully agree, nothing worse to put people off public transport is taking a through journey off them. It was tried in Tyne & Wear 40 years ago with bus services stopped from crossing the Tyne and passenger put on the Metro to get to Newcastle, one of the biggest cock ups by any PTE.  Also the reason why NX are going back to cross city services so more people only have to catch one bus.

[Pat]

What really should be done is a complete rebuild of the bus station, or close it entirely with services using existing stops in the town.

If services stopped in the town, it make the service more attractive, as you wouldn't have to walk from the bus station into the town centre.  Additionally, services from the north don't do the town centre loop, so passengers lose out on a direct link.

[Kevin]

I have mixed feelings about this idea.

The overriding feeling is that yes it will inconvenience people and will put people off. Not me personally because I'm the sort of person who is perfectly happy using public transport no matter what level of inconvenience, hell I never learnt to drive and probably never will. But your average village folk who might already only have a bus every few hours are hardly going to use a bus to another bus to town when they can drive. Oxford has that problem even with a bloody good park and ride system, now that I work down here I'm amazed at how many people still moan that the city centre is a nightmare to drive into and that the council should open it up more to cars.

However if public transport was properly integrated, like tickets and all, then *maybe* it would work. Like how it works in Rotterdam (and no doubt many other cities in Europe, I just happen to know Rotterdam very well). There's frequent reliable metros and trams into the city from key hubs, and feeder buses to those hubs not just from the surrounding countryside villages like hourly but also from the some of the suburbs themselves every few minutes. And yet there's less of the car culture in the city there than there is here, because people are perfectly happy with it, presumably because they're used to it because its been that way forever

I think it won't work though. Purely based on that uniquely British trait of selfishness

[Pat]

I have mixed feelings about this idea.

The overriding feeling is that yes it will inconvenience people and will put people off. Not me personally because I'm the sort of person who is perfectly happy using public transport no matter what level of inconvenience, hell I never learnt to drive and probably never will. But your average village folk who might already only have a bus every few hours are hardly going to use a bus to another bus to town when they can drive. Oxford has that problem even with a bloody good park and ride system, now that I work down here I'm amazed at how many people still moan that the city centre is a nightmare to drive into and that the council should open it up more to cars.

However if public transport was properly integrated, like tickets and all, then *maybe* it would work. Like how it works in Rotterdam (and no doubt many other cities in Europe, I just happen to know Rotterdam very well). There's frequent reliable metros and trams into the city from key hubs, and feeder buses to those hubs not just from the surrounding countryside villages like hourly but also from the some of the suburbs themselves every few minutes. And yet there's less of the car culture in the city there than there is here, because people are perfectly happy with it, presumably because they're used to it because its been that way forever

I think it won't work though. Purely based on that uniquely British trait of selfishness

The problem is, Shropshire Council seem to only want to do things that revolve around the Park & Ride.  It seems like the Park & Ride is the only form of public transport in Shrewsbury!  Whilst it is popular, the town services and some of the interurban services have generous loadings too, which contribute to the success of the town centre massively. 

In all honesty, I can't see Arriva being too pleased about all this.  It'll make it a pain for driver changeovers, as these will be happening all over the place, making it inconvenient to get drivers to the right place for their duties.  Also, they'll have to provide facilities for drivers to take their breaks at Oxon and Meole Brace (Harlescott has the depot right next to the car park).

[the trainbasher]

The problem is, Shropshire Council seem to only want to do things that revolve around the Park & Ride.  It seems like the Park & Ride is the only form of public transport in Shrewsbury!  Whilst it is popular, the town services and some of the interurban services have generous loadings too, which contribute to the success of the town centre massively. 

In all honesty, I can't see Arriva being too pleased about all this.  It'll make it a pain for driver changeovers, as these will be happening all over the place, making it inconvenient to get drivers to the right place for their duties.  Also, they'll have to provide facilities for drivers to take their breaks at Oxon and Meole Brace (Harlescott has the depot right next to the car park).

I suppose the way round it would be to "interwork" the services with through fares

[Pat]

I suppose the way round it would be to "interwork" the services with through fares

Then what's the point in making the service terminate at the P&R?  It'd just add on more time/mileage than if it were to go direct to the town centre.