Chaserider

[j789]

There is a general pattern developing very quickly with all these outlying areas that don't have a large city to support them. Significant passenger decline and repeated service cuts. It's a vicious cycle and the government sadly have not got a grip of it.

Look at Cannock, Redditch, Kidderminster, Hereford (see the recent other post about Yeomans there), Stafford , Worcester etc etc. All these areas have suffered significant passenger decline over the last 10 years, it has been worsened by Covid, but this cycle started long before that. Seeing this process of managed decline in my job has been depressing to say the least and no company has really been successful in arresting this decline.

I've said it before and I will again, the monopoly laws needs scrapping relating to bus operating areas. Larger companies should be allowed to purchase outlying area operators to create a larger network that can be subsidised (again this cross subsidising law needs changing) by more lucrative routes. At the moment these smaller companies don't have those routes to allow this to happen and so are forced to have to make cuts to make the operation viable.

Let one large operator run everything with current total subsidy offered as one large funding chunk (with the local authority proviso that the company must offer a certain level of service in that area).

Stupid ideas like those from the Manchester mayor about London style contracts will only make the whole industry situation worse. We need smart thinkers in this industry with industry knowledge not politicians or kids out of uni with no real life experience of the situation facing us all.

[Trident 4194]

I presume you are aware of the consequences that a monopoly brings? Believe me it would not be good at all for the consumer if we had a one company run everything policy. More government support should have been offered to the bus industry, but I also think some operators have been slow to adapt to the changes required of them.

[Tony]

I presume you are aware of the consequences that a monopoly brings? Believe me it would not be good at all for the consumer if we had a one company run everything policy. More government support should have been offered to the bus industry, but I also think some operators have been slow to adapt to the changes required of them.

What consequences are you referring to? There's several towns across the UK where one operator has 100% of the services.

[ellspurs]

If this was to happen and any of Tamworth, Redditch or Cannock Chase were to become a part of the West Midlands Combined Authority, would you think it would lead to better services in these areas?

[j789]

If this was to happen and any of Tamworth, Redditch or Cannock Chase were to become a part of the West Midlands Combined Authority, would you think it would lead to better services in these areas?

Yes because on the whole the West Midlands councils are far more pro bus than the local authorities in those other areas. Trust me, Worcestershire is a complete joke for bus support from the local authority.

Having it all under one operator would encourage link routes between areas. Imagine a company like NXWM being able to run the current 110, 144 the opportunities for improving these services, as well as incorporating them into current services would be immense. Even routes previously withdrawn like the 146 would be viable by combing it with the current 45/47. Even more benefit for passengers would be being able to travel across county borders on one network ticket, not needing multiple operator/county tickets. This would drive up passengers numbers as connections would be far simpler than currently and the return of the long distance inter urban bus routes would be possible.

Having one operator run everything would allow these links to be created. Currently, any passenger i one of those outlying areas would need multiple tickets to get to Brum and then travel around there. That is not attractive to passengers (nor is ridiculous London style contracting that results in massive tax payer bail outs). A one operator system wouldn't need those bail outs, just the current subsidies being paid at the moment. It's win win!

[2206]

Having it all under one operator would encourage link routes between areas. Imagine a company like NXWM being able to run the current 110, 144 the opportunities for improving these services, as well as incorporating them into current services would be immense. Even routes previously withdrawn like the 146 would be viable by combing it with the current 45/47. Even more benefit for passengers would be being able to travel across county borders on one network ticket, not needing multiple operator/county tickets. This would drive up passengers numbers as connections would be far simpler than currently and the return of the long distance inter urban bus routes would be possible.

Re 146 if NX wanted to and there was demand surely they would have done it already. Given there was no replacement at all, it can't have been viable surely.

Though it would be good if the 110 was incorporated into the Sutton services and on one ticket I think like X3 to Lichfield.

[j789]

Re 146 if NX wanted to and there was demand surely they would have done it already?
Like X3 to Lichfield.

But they don't run any other services in Redditch so it would be more difficult to make it viable. Were  they running all the routes in Redditch, combining a 146 type service with the 45/47 in Birmingham and then a Redditch route too would bring economies of scale - the saving made on reducing the vehicle requirements on those routes may just make the longer route viable.

With the current scenario, there is no chance this can happen.

[Trident 4194]

What consequences are you referring to? There's several towns across the UK where one operator has 100% of the services.

Limited competition is never a good thing. Take the 94 route for example. Customers would have to rely on solely nx. It would be unlikely that they would increase frequencies and instead are more likely to reduce frequency as they know they have the monopoly of the route. Look how expensive train fares are because they essentially are run as monopoly as well. There would have to be some tough regulations to stop these bus companies making supernormal profits by over charging for fares. Then there's the question about tenders. Would these monopoly operators run tendered routes as well as commercial routes for the whole of the West Midlands. I very much are pro-competition and believe that there are better ways of solving issues like this than putting everything under one umbrella. Look at Johnson's successful business for example, why should those operators who are able to make a success of things be forced out the market?

You simply can't compare the likes of those guys running plain blue buses on the 11C with a quality independent  operator like Johnson's.

As a question for you @Tony doesn't Birmingham have one of the lowest fares in the countries for bus fares? How does this compare with places in the country where there is a monopoly operator?

[Tony]

Limited competition is never a good thing. Take the 94 route for example. Customers would have to rely on solely nx. It would be unlikely that they would increase frequencies and instead are more likely to reduce frequency as they know they have the monopoly of the route. Look how expensive train fares are because they essentially are run as monopoly as well. There would have to be some tough regulations to stop these bus companies making supernormal profits by over charging for fares. Then there's the question about tenders. Would these monopoly operators run tendered routes as well as commercial routes for the whole of the West Midlands. I very much are pro-competition and believe that there are better ways of solving issues like this than putting everything under one umbrella. Look at Johnson's successful business for example, why should those operators who are able to make a success of things be forced out the market?

You simply can't compare the likes of those guys running plain blue buses on the 11C with a quality independent  operator like Johnson's.

As a question for you @Tony doesn't Birmingham have one of the lowest fares in the countries for bus fares? How does this compare with places in the country where there is a monopoly operator?

You are talking complete rubbish. ' Expensive' Train fares are set by the Government nothing to do with a monopoly. And how can they be a monopoly anyway. If I want to go to London I have choice of 3 operators all offering cheap fares.

[j789]

Limited competition is never a good thing. Take the 94 route for example. Customers would have to rely on solely nx. It would be unlikely that they would increase frequencies and instead are more likely to reduce frequency as they know they have the monopoly of the route. Look how expensive train fares are because they essentially are run as monopoly as well. There would have to be some tough regulations to stop these bus companies making supernormal profits by over charging for fares. Then there's the question about tenders. Would these monopoly operators run tendered routes as well as commercial routes for the whole of the West Midlands. I very much are pro-competition and believe that there are better ways of solving issues like this than putting everything under one umbrella. Look at Johnson's successful business for example, why should those operators who are able to make a success of things be forced out the market?

You simply can't compare the likes of those guys running plain blue buses on the 11C with a quality independent  operator like Johnson's.

As a question for you @Tony doesn't Birmingham have one of the lowest fares in the countries for bus fares? How does this compare with places in the country where there is a monopoly operator?

Low fares ultimately equal low investment. Take Redditch as an example, the fares there have been ridiculously low for over 10 years yet the passenger decline there has been huge over that time period because passengers couldn't trust the service provided. Diamond have a monopoly there with very little competition yet I can't see any whole scale recovery taking place with passenger numbers there. Those lost passengers just won't come back now.

Competition results in even less investment generally as it's a race to the bottom in terms of standards. Look at the late 1980s and  1990s bus scene and all those cow boy operators running clapped out Nationals just trying to cream profits off the lucrative routes. That wasn't a good thing for the industry at all.

[Trident 4194]

You are talking complete rubbish. ' Expensive' Train fares are set by the Government nothing to do with a monopoly. And how can they be a monopoly anyway. If I want to go to London I have choice of 3 operators all offering cheap fares.

I was more referring to cross country fares, which as you said the other day were ludicrous prices. Take Birmingham to Nottingham for example. You chose an example of the biggest city and second biggest city in the UK, of course there's going to be a little more choice!!

[Tony]

I was more referring to cross country fares, which as you said the other day were ludicrous prices. Take Birmingham to Nottingham for example. You chose an example of the biggest city and second biggest city in the UK, of course there's going to be a little more choice!!

Cross Country still isn't a monopoly, as I pointed out I had the choice of giving Northern trains some of my money to make the fare cheaper.

Birmingham to Nottingham fares are a left over from Central Trains days and are not expensive

[Grinder]

I have been reading all of the posts regarding Chaserider's, according to some totally unreliable service and would like to add my experiences over the last few weeks after having had eye surgery and not being able to drive.  I would like to make it clear that I have no link to the company, no knowledge of running a bus service and no knowledge of the workings of a modern bus.  Over the last 4 weeks I have used the 74 to and from my home on the boundary of Stafford Borough into Stafford, the 74 to and from Cannock to Stafford, the 25/26 Pye Green Circular and the 826 from Stafford to Rugeley oh and one trip on the 63 from Rugeley to Hednesford.  I have traveled on Volvo, Plaxton Dart, Commander, Solo's, the Versa, Enviro 200's, Evolution Dart and the Centrebus Centro's, all of them rattle the worse, in my opinion being the E200's the best the Centro's but oh the seating in the Centro's, might as well go back to the days of wooden slatted seats. The bottom line is that I have suffered no breakdowns, no none shows and when late only a couple of minutes.  The only criticism I have is that the SWB Solo's are not really suitable for any route other than very sparsely populated countryside ones due to capacity. All in all in my opinion D & G/Chaserider aren't doing to bad considering everything.

[BusMan Greg]

The 3, 61, and X14 have all been cancelled from the 9th of January. Variations of the 25/26 and 74 have been registered too

[Bob]

The 3, 61, and X14 have all been cancelled from the 9th of January. Variations of the 25/26 and 74 have been registered too

Do the variations on the 74 mean the axing of the Cheslyn hay to walsall section?