11 Outer Circle

[monkeyjoe]

I was out and about today and nice to see so many platinums on the 11 today. I am not sure if this question has ever been asked before or weather it has been in convo before. I was wondering which section of the 11 would people say is the busiest or if the route was ever split up which would be more frequent and which sections would possibly get reductions. So for example:-

Acocks Green - Ward End / Erdington.  (Vice versa).
Acocks Green - Kings Heath
Bearwood to Perry Barr
Selly Oak to Kings Heath >>>>>>>>>> Those are crude examples however people get my drift??  (Discuss)
 

[Stu]

I've only ever done the 'full circle' in one trip just the once, and that was on a Saturday afternoon.

Due to the nature of the route, it is difficult to point out sections of the route that could be 'busier' than others, as there is a constant stream of passengers getting on and off.

We've definitely had the discussion before about splitting up the 11, certainly there have been good cases made for this.

But the stumbling block has always been the question of "where do you split the routes?"

[busfan2847]

The early history of Outer Circle was
The 10 Kings Heath to Kings Head via Cotteridge and Harborne was the first part of the Outer Circle to operate, starting on 8th Jan 1923.
The 11 started on 15th Jan 1923 as a route from Erdington to Acocks Green via Stechford
Extended on 14th May 1923 from Acocks Green to Moseley Village via Wake Green Road
Extended on 16th Jul 1923 from Erdington to Stockland Green via Reservoir Rd.
Extended on 12th Nov 1923 from Stockland Green to Perry Barr via Witton
Extended on 2nd Feb 1925 from Perry Barr to Kings Head via Winson Green. Outer Circle name introduced.
On 7th Apr 1926 the Outer Circle was completed when the 11 was extended from Kings Head to Acocks Green via the former 10 route to Kings Heath then via Billesley. The section from Acocks Green to Moseley Village passed to the 1 (City to Billesley La) route extended to Acocks Green as the 1A.

[markcf83]

I've only ever done the 'full circle' in one trip just the once, and that was on a Saturday afternoon.

Due to the nature of the route, it is difficult to point out sections of the route that could be 'busier' than others, as there is a constant stream of passengers getting on and off.

We've definitely had the discussion before about splitting up the 11, certainly there have been good cases made for this.

But the stumbling block has always been the question of "where do you split the routes?"

I have to agree. I,unlike you,haven't done the entire route in one go,having preferred to do bits of it at a time-for instance King's Heath to Perry Barr stopping off a few times.

[WyreForestShuttle]

I've only ever done the 'full circle' in one trip just the once, and that was on a Saturday afternoon.

Due to the nature of the route, it is difficult to point out sections of the route that could be 'busier' than others, as there is a constant stream of passengers getting on and off.

We've definitely had the discussion before about splitting up the 11, certainly there have been good cases made for this.

But the stumbling block has always been the question of "where do you split the routes?"

@Stu I will be brutally honest using it for work untill earlier this year I have done the full circle of the 11A/C on numerous occasions simply by falling asleep on the front seat (right) on the top deck only to be woken at either AG or PB by a driver in the garage going off service!!!

[2206]

I was out and about today and nice to see so many platinums on the 11 today. I am not sure if this question has ever been asked before or weather it has been in convo before. I was wondering which section of the 11 would people say is the busiest or if the route was ever split up which would be more frequent and which sections would possibly get reductions. So for example:-

Acocks Green - Ward End / Erdington.  (Vice versa).

I've regularly used the East section between Acocks Green, Ward End and Erdington and its always very busy from my experience.
They've also been running duplicates on this section for the past few weeks, mostly using E200 MMC this week to provide extra capacity.

[Stu]

I have to agree. I,unlike you,haven't done the entire route in one go,having preferred to do bits of it at a time-for instance King's Heath to Perry Barr stopping off a few times.

It was one Saturday a few years ago when I lived in Acocks Green. I was bored, had a few hours to kill, and it was a reasonably nice day. Got on the bus round the corner from my house, and within 3 hours I was back home again.  ;D

[monkeyjoe]

I used to use it as a teenager working at Safeway (who remembers them), when didn't want to go through town. Fox & Goose to Kings Heath. It used to be Fox and Goose to Acocks Green would be often be busier than the Acocks Green to Kings Heath part (only filling up again on the latter section between Billesley (not sure if spelt right) and KH. Mind you im talking 20+ years ago.

Im sure the timetables used to have more short workings on certain sections i.e Perry Barr - Bearwood / Acocks - Fox (Not just talking about garage positioning journeys).

[2206]

I used to use it as a teenager working at Safeway (who remembers them), when didn't want to go through town. Fox & Goose to Kings Heath. It used to be Fox and Goose to Acocks Green would be often be busier than the Acocks Green to Kings Heath part (only filling up again on the latter section between Billesley (not sure if spelt right) and KH. Mind you im talking 20+ years ago.

Im sure the timetables used to have more short workings on certain sections i.e Perry Barr - Bearwood / Acocks - Fox (Not just talking about garage positioning journeys).

Might still be the case that's its a little busier on the East section at present than the section to Kings Heath. As they aren't running any duplicates between AG and Kings Heath, I don't think.

[j789]

[quote author=monkeyjoe link=topic=5823.msg281511#

Im sure the timetables used to have more short workings on certain sections i.e Perry Barr - Bearwood / Acocks - Fox (Not just talking about garage positioning journeys).
[/quote]

I used to catch the 11 regularly in the 90s and there did seem to be more garages involved with running boards than just AG and PB. The Metrobuses used to have a sticker on the cab door saying what garage the bus was from and I regularly remember seeing Hockley buses used on the 11c route in the mornings. There may have been others too.

[Jack]

There is currently more duplicates on the North to West section like there is on the Eastern section. 11E's to Bearwood from Perry Barr using E200MMC's.

[fleetline6477]

I would imagine the route is busier in the more densely populated and poorer areas of the route, namely Perry Barr, Handsworth, Winson Green, Stetchford and less busy in the more affluent areas Harborne, Bournville, Hall Green. In the poorer areas people will generally be more reliant on public transport and be taking shorter, locally based journeys. This theory also replicates on routes that radiate from the City Centre passing through less affluent into more affluent areas.

[Justin Tyme]

I've done a few full circuits over the decades.  I wouldn't like to guess which section is the busiest because I don't know if I see the normal picture when I travel on it.

The last time I went all the way round was on a Saturday afternoon in 2016 on the 11A.  The app showed that two buses were running together and a third two minutes behind them, so I got on the fairly empty third one (a President as it happened) in Kings Heath.  We caught up numbers one and two and some leapfrogging ensued until we reached Acocks Green Garage, where all three buses stopped for driver changes.

We were the last to set off again, but there was more leapfrogging all the way to Perry Barr, when number two found it was back on time and started to drop back.  We stayed with number one until Handsworth and then dropped back ourselves, so we had a slower and quieter run back round to Kings Heath.

Despite - or maybe because of - the number 11's reputation for traffic delays and resultant bunching, a full ride round can be entertaining.

[MW]

I would imagine the route is busier in the more densely populated and poorer areas of the route, namely Perry Barr, Handsworth, Winson Green, Stetchford and less busy in the more affluent areas Harborne, Bournville, Hall Green. In the poorer areas people will generally be more reliant on public transport and be taking shorter, locally based journeys. This theory also replicates on routes that radiate from the City Centre passing through less affluent into more affluent areas.

From my experience of driving the route, you're spot on. Perry Barr to Bearwood was busy as was Erdington to Acocks Green.

After Bearwood towards Harborne always went quiet, and then it'd pick up again around Selly Oak/Cotteridge - Kings Heath (and then quiet again till Acocks Green).

[2206]

From my experience of driving the route, you're spot on. Perry Barr to Bearwood was busy as was Erdington to Acocks Green.

After Bearwood towards Harborne always went quiet, and then it'd pick up again around Selly Oak/Cotteridge - Kings Heath (and then quiet again till Acocks Green).

If there is still a good case to split it as @Stu mentioned above, but no way it can be split.
I wander if it would make sense to run more 11E shorts permanently over the busier sections of the routes - as they are doing now with the duplicates. And still run a slightly reduced 11A/11C service over the less busy sections of the route.