Old Bus Routes

[WyreForestShuttle]

I seem to remember one of my older fellow midland red drivers telling me that it was midland red who ran the first bus route to Hawkesley as the 84/85 and they should really made a success of it but unfortunately the route was inter worked with a longer distance route from Redditch in Birmingham city centre so it became unreliable. I believe WMT only operated the 35 to pool farm at that time so midland red had the estate to themselves with a bus from the city but couldn't get it to work sadly. I'm not 100% on this as like I say it's from another source but interesting nonetheless.

The 83 84 85 began operating by Midland Red West on 26th October 1986 operated by Digbeth Garage using Mk1 Leyland Nationals didplaced from Worcestershire Minibus Conversions. The services were initially sucessfull on Bristol Rd after the D Day cuts by WMPTE/WMT with MRW filling the gaps. Along the Bristol Rd MRW had 10 buses per hour from either Hawkesley, and/or Longbridge & Bromesgrove. There was also a WMPTE sponsored 86. This was one of the few routes MRW Wandacards were sucessfull on as they were cleverly priced well below the price WMT Travelcards. The service eventually moved to Redditch garage punctually went out of the window and WMT restored the WMPTE frequencys on the Bristol Rd corridor & MRW withdrew with Your Bus taking over. At the same time MRW had 8 buses per hour along Hagley Road from The City to Halesowen 131192 292 392 X92 X93 & X94.

[Mike K]

One thing I've been thinking about recently: how did the 35 route come about in the late 90s to be Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Pool Farm - Hawkesley - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath?

Seemed a bit odd that the bus ran Birmingham - Kings Heath, then basically did a circular route to/from Hawkesley.

It was later split up into the 35 and 27 routes, both of which received branded buses.

It was an amalgamation of the 35 and the 27 which at the time was the "South Circle" - Kings Heath, Bournville, Northfield, West Heath, Hawkesley, Kings Heath. The 27 and 35 both linked Kings Heath and Hawkesley, the 35 via Allens Croft Road and the 27 via Brandwood Road. The 27 was withdrawn and replaced by the extended 35. I think another route was amended to cover the part of the 27 that served Brandwood Road - possibly an extension of the then A6 from Kings Heath (?) but my memory on that is vague.

The 35 was later separated back out into the 35 and 27, which no longer ran in a loop after that.

[ellspurs]

It was an amalgamation of the 35 and the 27 which at the time was the "South Circle" - Kings Heath, Bournville, Northfield, West Heath, Hawkesley, Kings Heath. The 27 and 35 both linked Kings Heath and Hawkesley, the 35 via Allens Croft Road and the 27 via Brandwood Road. The 27 was withdrawn and replaced by the extended 35. I think another route was amended to cover the part of the 27 that served Brandwood Road - possibly an extension of the then A6 from Kings Heath (?) but my memory on that is vague.

The 35 was later separated back out into the 35 and 27, which no longer ran in a loop after that.

Thanks, Mike. I found some timetables from the time and edited them into my previous post.

[SO6597]

One thing I've been thinking about recently: how did the 35 route come about in the late 90s to be Birmingham - Moseley - Kings Heath - Pool Farm - Hawkesley - Northfield - Bournville - Kings Heath?

Seemed a bit odd that the bus ran Birmingham - Kings Heath, then basically did a circular route to/from Hawkesley.

It was later split up into the 35 and 27 routes, both of which received branded buses.

The origin of the extended 35 lay in changes made in September 1993 which saw the 27 and 35 interworking in both directions at Hawkesley during the evenings. The June 1994 change which saw the 27 completely subsumed into the 35 was effectively an extension of this.

At the same time a 27M was introduced covering the Dawberry Fields area which the old South Circle 27A/C used to serve. This was the route that Mike K may be thinking of. It was operated by either a single midibus or a single National MkII and was replaced some 6 months later by WMT's 43 service and subsequently TYB's 54y.

YW also started interworking the 49/69 at Frankley at the same time which must have rivalled the current 48 for length.

[SO6597]

The origins of the extended 35 actually lay in changes made in September 1993 which saw the 27 and 35 interworking in both directions at Hawkesley during the evenings. The June 1994 change which saw the 27 become completely subsumed into the 35 was effectively an extension of this. At the same time a 27M was introduced which covered the Dawberry Fields area which the old South Circle 27A/C used to serve.

YW also started interworking the 49/69 at Frankley at the same time which must have rivalled the current 48 for length

Actually checked the last point, thinking about it there was no contest. The 48 clocks in at 1hr 32m compared with the 3hr 9m interworked 49/69. No wonder this configuration only lasted a couple of months before the routes were split at Northfield.

[Mike K]

Actually checked the last point, thinking about it there was no contest. The 48 clocks in at 1hr 32m compared with the 3hr 9m interworked 49/69. No wonder this configuration only lasted a couple of months before the routes were split at Northfield.

Where was it that the 49 / 69 inter worked? I remember the 69 running Heartlands Hospital to Weoley Castle, later shortened to Solihull to Weoley Castle, I don't recall it serving Frankley.

[SO6597]

They interworked at Frankley, Holly Hill. The 69 was extended from Weoley Castle via Northfield.

The 49 was cut back to Frankley and at the same time rerouted through Rednal via Lickey Road and Ashill Road causing all sorts of problems with residents on the latter. I used to garden for a relative on the road and remember watching two YW double deckers being blocked by residents on a Saturday afternoon.

In November the 49 was extended to Northfield once more with the 69 being cut back to the same place. The timetables suggest they no longer interworked at that point so the experiment lasted for about 10 weeks.

At the same time the 49 was diverted back onto the Bristol Road for every other journey (as the 49A) with drivers left to run the gauntlet along Ashill Road once per hour before being reinstated to the Bristol Road in full the following April (when it got rerouted through Pool Farm).

Interesting times!

[Mike K]

They interworked at Frankley, Holly Hill. The 69 was extended from Weoley Castle via Northfield.

The 49 was cut back to Frankley and at the same time rerouted through Rednal via Lickey Road and Ashill Road causing all sorts of problems with residents on the latter. I used to garden for a relative on the road and remember watching two YW double deckers being blocked by residents on a Saturday afternoon.

In November the 49 was extended to Northfield once more with the 69 being cut back to the same place. The timetables suggest they no longer interworked at that point so the experiment lasted for about 10 weeks.

At the same time the 49 was diverted back onto the Bristol Road for every other journey (as the 49A) with drivers left to run the gauntlet along Ashill Road once per hour before being reinstated to the Bristol Road in full the following April (when it got rerouted through Pool Farm).

Interesting times!

Thanks. I never knew the 69 had been extended beyond Weoley Castle. I've lost track of the number of times the route between Frankley and Northfield that's not served by the 61 has been served by tinkering with different routes over the years.

[monkeyjoe]

Thanks. I never knew the 69 had been extended beyond Weoley Castle. I've lost track of the number of times the route between Frankley and Northfield that's not served by the 61 has been served by tinkering with different routes over the years.

I have vague memories of the 69/49 being controversial with blockage protests in the frankley area.

[ellspurs]

I have vague memories of the 69/49 being controversial with blockage protests in the frankley area.

Were they complaining about the route being changed, or the sheer audacity of a bus sullying their roads?

It's direct off the A38, wide and straight. It's not like it was a shortcut through anywhere, as it just leads up to the aforementioned Lickey Road, which has more major roads either side of it.

[SO6597]

Were they complaining about the route being changed, or the sheer audacity of a bus sullying their roads?

It's direct off the A38, wide and straight. It's not like it was a shortcut through anywhere, as it just leads up to the aforementioned Lickey Road, which has more major roads either side of it.

I didn't know about the Frankley issues but the problem with Ashill Rd was that the timetable often meant buses passing one another on it which at the Bristol Rd end isn't easy. More recently, the X20 (during its short lived routing along the road) got diverted inbound along an even narrower road, Cliff Rock Road, to avoid the same problem happening again - the original plan being to run it straight down to the Bristol Rd.

[ellspurs]

I didn't know about the Frankley issues but the problem with Ashill Rd was that the timetable often meant buses passing one another on it which at the Bristol Rd end isn't easy. More recently, the X20 (during its short lived routing along the road) got diverted inbound along an even narrower road, Cliff Rock Road, to avoid the same problem happening again - the original plan being to run it straight down to the Bristol Rd.

I see. I can see the Bristol Road end looking a bit tight if there's a bus sat waiting for the lights to change, but other than that it seems like a nice, wide road. Cliff Rock Road definitely doesn't look suitable for a double decker. Was it the drivers that complained or mainly the residents?

[SO6597]

I see. I can see the Bristol Road end looking a bit tight if there's a bus sat waiting for the lights to change, but other than that it seems like a nice, wide road. Cliff Rock Road definitely doesn't look suitable for a double decker. Was it the drivers that complained or mainly the residents?

Don't know about the drivers but the residents definitely weren't happy! You're right though, the part between Cliff Rock Road and Lickey Road (Edgewood Rd) is absolutely fine. I followed an X20 along Cliff Rock Rd on a Saturday morning shortly before it was withdrawn from there - lots of parked cars, fantastic manoeuvres on the part of the driver!

[:D]

Does anyone have some info on the 192 and 194 bus route between Solihull and Coventry? What were their frequency?

I noticed that there's a google maps street view with bus stop stand near Olton Station showing 192 and 194 - was the route extended to Birmingham city centre at some point?

[2206]

I noticed that there's a google maps street view with bus stop stand near Olton Station showing 192 and 194 - was the route extended to Birmingham city centre at some point?

Depot trips to Acocks Green Garage I think. @Stu said it before somewhere.
And if you look at the 2008 streetview for the 11A stop outside the garage, thats where the 192/194 numbers start appearing on the stops.