Help with old photos

[2900]

Greetings all been a while.

I would like some help in finding pictures of buses on the 82 service from brum to harborne island I told was that the terminus point and relief point was there, so I am led to believe,
before Hockley garage it was quinton garage that operated that service.
Did Ailsas ever work that route I know they did on the 87s

I am sure I have seen a picture on google some where I just can't find it now.

[Mike K]

Greetings all been a while.

I would like some help in finding pictures of buses on the 82 service from brum to harborne island I told was that the terminus point and relief point was there, so I am led to believe,
before Hockley garage it was quinton garage that operated that service.
Did Ailsas ever work that route I know they did on the 87s

I am sure I have seen a picture on google some where I just can't find it now.

There's a picture of 2412 on the 82A to Harborne here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwmetrobuses/31208278021/

At the time the route was run by Quinton so the relief point probably would have been Harborne baths (the Duke of York pub still existed in those days, hence the destination).

I'm sure I've seen one or two pictures of Fleetlines on the 82A on Flickr too. I don't believe the 82 was ever run by Ailsas as it never ran from Oldbury garage. On Quinton's closure it moved to Hockley and then onto West Brom from there.

Edit: 2410 on the 82A too:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwmetrobuses/31237424301/

[Justin Tyme]

Did Ailsas ever work that route I know they did on the 87s

I am sure I have seen a picture on google some where I just can't find it now.

Yes they did - Oldbury garage ran one or two peak journeys on the 82 in Midland Red and WMPTE days, I think until a big Sandwell programme was implemented in 1980 if not later.  I certainly caught an Ailsa from Bearwood to Birmingham on the 82 in the evening peak.  Sorry, I didn't have a camera with me.

[Mike K]

Yes they did - Oldbury garage ran one or two peak journeys on the 82 in Midland Red and WMPTE days, I think until a big Sandwell programme was implemented in 1980 if not later.  I certainly caught an Ailsa from Bearwood to Birmingham on the 82 in the evening peak.  Sorry, I didn't have a camera with me.

In that case I stand corrected

[richardjones210368]

Yes they did - Oldbury garage ran one or two peak journeys on the 82 in Midland Red and WMPTE days, I think until a big Sandwell programme was implemented in 1980 if not later.  I certainly caught an Ailsa from Bearwood to Birmingham on the 82 in the evening peak.  Sorry, I didn't have a camera with me.

Yes i agree the Ailsas were regulars on my 417, the 415 and when I went to my nan in Smethwick they were on the 87 & 82 they also popped up on the 445 448 449  and 450 When they arrived in 1976 they were buses from the space age Star Wars was round the corner after the DD13's there was 1 seat on the left upstairs nothing only a staircase on the right and that whirr as they went along a great bus of its day and much loved by me & the hours I spent in Birchley Crossings bus garage in the 1970s no health and safety then just as today an annoying blond haired wierdo hanging about the dept hr after hr the staff at dept from the enquiry office upwards were brilliant great garage very happy memories my Grifter bike did some miles from Gorsty Hill to Birchley Crossings another era.

[2900]

There's a picture of 2412 on the 82A to Harborne here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwmetrobuses/31208278021/

At the time the route was run by Quinton so the relief point probably would have been Harborne baths (the Duke of York pub still existed in those days, hence the destination).

I'm sure I've seen one or two pictures of Fleetlines on the 82A on Flickr too. I don't believe the 82 was ever run by Ailsas as it never ran from Oldbury garage. On Quinton's closure it moved to Hockley and then onto West Brom from there.

Edit: 2410 on the 82A too:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mcwmetrobuses/31237424301/

Thanks for the picture nice one

[richardjones210368]

Thanks for the picture nice one

The Alisas were amazing space age buses for 1976 and fitted the Star Wars era perfect what whirr they made compered with
Growl of a Fleetline were never operated by West Midlands Travel and went when WMPTE closed Birchley Crossings in the run up to D Day  and sold to London Buses amazingly at least one is in preservation and regularly has a run up Gorsty Hill  recreating the 417 they were regulars on the 82 87 415 417  and 448. The 82A was just a dept run for crew changes and when WMPTE closed all the Midland Red garages some odd workings followed including a regular 140E to Quinton over 30 years later this short working runs again as a X7 SHORT JOURNEY on an evening and Sunday again perhaps the less said about that the better!

[don]

Greetings all been a while.

I would like some help in finding pictures of buses on the 82 service from brum to harborne island I told was that the terminus point and relief point was there, so I am led to believe,
before Hockley garage it was quinton garage that operated that service.
Did Ailsas ever work that route I know they did on the 87s

I am sure I have seen a picture on google some where I just can't find it now.

The 82 route (originally B82) was part of a group of services (B80-B89) run jointly between Birmingham City Transport and Midland Red. In reality BCT ran B80 (Grove Lane), B82 (Bearwood bus station) and B83 (Heath St) whilst Midland Red ran B86 (Oldbury) and B87 (Dudley). The Remainder were generally short workings and some were used to balance mileage between the operators (as were occassional trips by Midland Red on B82 and BCT on B85 (Spon Lane). The BCT services were run by Roseberry St garage until it closed in 1968 (it's allocation was Leyland PD2/Park Royal from 2196-2230 and Daimler CVD6 2756-75 - although there was some swapping especially of Leylands with Hockley and 2756 ran with 8ft wide axles from Lea Hall experimentally for a while). Midland Red provided D7s (they had to agree between them when to convert these services to high capacity vehicles). When Roseberry St closed the B82 was transferred to Quinton (B83 and 95 to Hockley - not sure about B80).

82 was run sometimes by new PTE standard Fleetlines at Quinton 4109-4135 from 1971, along with their BCT Fleetlines and standards. The Leylands had soon been transferred appearing at Yardley Wood and some at Hockkey before they were withdrawn. 

If you look on Flickr there are lots of pictures of 82 buses at the terminus at Bearwood bus station next to Lightwoods Park. I think the extension to Harborne was probably a late WMPTE or even WMT thing.

As a regular user of the new Ailsas on 87, I can assure you for passengers they didn't seem space age, with the body design containing a similar structure to a 1963 DD11 with updated front and back, but with standard PTE seats and decoration, but with the Ford/Bedford PSV esque engine bulge on the platform although it didn't interrupt passenger flow too much. However they screamed and whistled along (quite quickly) and the transmission had some of the hum exhibited by the D9s they replaced. If you get a chance go on 4738 which is immaculately preserved and will transport your mind back to the late 70s!

4738-67 initially went to Oldbury - around the same time 6301-30 went to Dudley, Harts Hill and Stourbridge, providing equally loud Leyland engine roar (if not the whine of an early Atlantean) - the other 20 Ailsas with the 3 prototypes went to Sutton (the whole lot were intended to replace D9s etc). The Ailsas only came about because the then British Leyland had refused to take an order for the volume of Fleetlines WMPTE has required.

The Ailsas were good buses, but easily audible around the side streets of Smethwick from the main A457, especially the whistle and scream of the turbos!!

[don]

Interesting the photos of 2410 and 12 - these were part of a batch of 20 new at Harborne (2396-2415). Of this batch of 160, PB got 2276-2315 and AG 2416-2435, so 80 of which would probably have appeared on the 11 (Outer Circle) at that time.

[richardjones210368]

The 82 route (originally B82) was part of a group of services (B80-B89) run jointly between Birmingham City Transport and Midland Red. In reality BCT ran B80 (Grove Lane), B82 (Bearwood bus station) and B83 (Heath St) whilst Midland Red ran B86 (Oldbury) and B87 (Dudley). The Remainder were generally short workings and some wee used to balance mileage (as were occassional trips by Midland Red on B82 and BCT on B85 (Spon Lane). The BCT services were run by Roseberry St garage until it closed in 1968 (it's allocation was Leyland PD2/Park Royal from 2196-2230 and Daimler CVD6 2756-75 - although there was some swapping especially of Leylands with Hockley and 2756 ran with 8ft wide axles from Lea Hall experimentally for a while). When Roseberry St closed the B82 was transferred to Quinton (B83 and 95 to Hockley - not sure about B80).

82 was run sometimes by new PTE standard Fleetlines at Quinton 4109-4135 from 1971, along with their BCT Fleetlines and standards. The Leylands had soon been transferred appearing at Yardley Wood and some at Hockkey before they were withdrawn. 

If you look on Flickr there are lots of pictures of 82 buses at the terminus at Bearwood bus station next to Lightwoods Park. I think the extension to Harborne was probably a late WMPTE or even WMT thing.

As a regular user of the new Ailsas on 87, I can assure you for passengers they didn't seem space age, with the body design containing a similar structure to a 1963 DD11 with updated front and back, but with standard PTE seats and decoration, but with the Ford/Bedford PSV esque engine bulge on the platform although it didn't interrupt passenger flow too much. However they screamed and whistled along (quite quickly) and the transmission had some of the hum exhibited by the D9s they replaced. If you get a chance go on 4738 which is immaculately preserved and will transport your mind back to the late 70s!

4738-67 initially went to Oldbury - around the same time 6301-30 went to Dudley, Harts Hill and Stourbridge, providing equally loud Leyland engine roar (if not the whine of an early Atlantean) - the other 20 Ailsas with the 3 prototypes went to Sutton (the whole lot were intended to replace D9s etc). The Ailsas only came about because the then British Leyland had refused to take an order for the volume of Fleetlines WMPTE has required.

The Ailsas were good buses, but easily audible around the side streets of Smethwick from the main A457, especially the whistle and scream of the turbos!!

In no way did the Ailsas ever remotely resemble a DD11 they were boxy buses with cramped interiors with pink ceilings for the very first day of WMPTE operation a DD11 was on the 217 in WMPTE colours as me & my mum were on it the DD13s were not much better and despite being converted to single doors they were quickly dispatched by WMPTE some lingered on to 1987 with Midland Red North but they were awful buses on the 217 and bore no resemblance whatsoever to the Alisas which displaced them on the launch of the 417 in 1976 with its curvey staircase, gleaming white interior and such big windows that let in so much light together with very odd seating downstairs and upstairs nothing more grown up than sitting on the single front seat upstairs on your own they were the Star Wars of buses and the hard back seat upstairs was the stuff of legends they were my fav bus all time and definitely something else at 8 from a galaxy far far away well Scotland anyway.

[don]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess and compared to say a D9 these were a revelation - all MR buses had pink ceilings!! Don't get me wrong, I liked them, but the Alexander bodies had short window bays which did hark back to their A series bodies. Whereas the Park Royal/MCW had much longer window bays and deeper windows. The standard PTE interior was developed from the BCT standard (which appeared in the first batch 4036-4235), but developed with white ceilings, all red seats, and flat floors (but still the BCT Formica colour and also the BCT staircase) from 4243 on. So the interior of the Ailsa generally met this spec.

The real space age bus was the 3881-4004 Jumbo Fleetline of 1969 - with its upstairs passenger counter, deep, long window bays and extra length, with one person operation - introduced 3 months or so after man first walked on the moon 👍😏

As well as travelling on 4738 on the car park shuttle at Wythall, I also had the good fortune to ride on BCT 3796 on the shuttle - I was reminded what a refined bus this was for a passenger - great suspension and so smooth - this was an ex Hockley bus which I probably travelled on in 1968/69 on either the 16 or 70 to Handsworth Wood - the one thing which I had forgotten was the acres of chequer plate aluminium on the interior front panels and around the staircase. I can't wait to travel on Rob Handford's ex BCT (Quinton) 3436!!

[richardjones210368]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess and compared to say a D9 these were a revelation - all MR buses had pink ceilings!! Don't get me wrong, I liked them, but the Alexander bodies had short window bays which did hark back to their A series bodies. Whereas the Park Royal/MCW had much longer window bays and deeper windows. The standard PTE interior was developed from the BCT standard (which appeared in the first batch 4036-4235), but developed with white ceilings, all red seats, and flat floors (but still the BCT Formica colour and also the BCT staircase) from 4243 on. So the interior of the Ailsa generally met this spec.

The real space age bus was the 3881-4004 Jumbo Fleetline of 1969 - with its upstairs passenger counter, deep, long window bays and extra length, with one person operation - introduced 3 months or so after man first walked on the moon 👍😏

As well as travelling on 4738 on the car park shuttle at Wythall, I also had the good fortune to ride on BCT 3796 on the shuttle - I was reminded what a refined bus this was for a passenger - great suspension and so smooth - this was an ex Hockley bus which I probably travelled on in 1968/69 on either the 16 or 70 to Handsworth Wood - the one thing which I had forgotten was the acres of chequer plate aluminium on the interior front panels and around the staircase. I can't wait to travel on Rob Handford's ex BCT (Quinton) 3436!!

The Birmngham Standards on the Quinton 9 always seemed far more heavyweight than the D9s on the 140 yes they were iconic buses my profile picture has me next to 5399 in Central Works in 1979 but the WMPTE Fleetlines that arrived at the Midland Red garages from 1977 onwards were far better than the DD11 DD12 & DD13 in the same way a S18 was far better than a S17 the Alisa were great buses but compered with most buses in the West Midlands had such a short life of just 10 years but I agree I would encourage all younger users of this site to try one on.a Wythall running day.

[don]

I don't disagree - Midland Red designed it's buses to be lightweight (and had a history of doing so going back to the early part of the 20th century). They were also quick. The DD11-13 had largely standard Alexander bodies, but appeared less robust than the PRV and MCW ones - that said, MR worked its buses incredibly hard - those schedulers knew how to get every last ounce out of them!

As a point of correction 6301 etc started to appear at Dudley in Jan 76 (along with the final VRs, 4726-9 at Walsall). Oldbury had its first, 6499-6503 new in 1977 (straddling R and S reg) - they also had 6557-8, which replaced the DD12 and DD13 (6269 - one of the first MR buses in PTE colours for takeover day) which destroyed each other at Brandhall.

Btw we're miles off topic (route 82 terminus) so Winston may be along shortly 😯

[richardjones210368]

I don't disagree - Midland Red designed it's buses to be lightweight (and had a history of doing so going back to the early part of the 20th century). They were also quick. The DD11-13 had largely standard Alexander bodies, but appeared less robust than the PRV and MCW ones - that said, MR worked its buses incredibly hard - those schedulers knew how to get every last ounce out of them!

As a point of correction 6301 etc started to appear at Dudley in Jan 76 (along with the final VRs, 4726-9 at Walsall). Oldbury had its first, 6499-6503 new in 1977 (straddling R and S reg) - they also had 6557-8, which replaced the DD12 and DD13 (6269 - one of the first MR buses in PTE colours for takeover day) which destroyed each other at Brandhall.

Btw we're miles off topic (route 82 terminus) so Winston may be along shortly 😯

I agree its the NOC-R regs I remember coming to Birchely Crossings I can honestly say I cant remember P reg on the 140 they had different indicators in 1976 but there again that summer it was anything goes on the 140 ex Hull Atlentans, WMPTE Jumbos and just betwen you and me an ex Wolverhampton.Corporation open back Guy  just showing 40 when coming back from Dudley Beatties with my mum but theres no way a Wolves Corporation bus could be on it 43 years later is there...................

[Gareth]

The Alisas were amazing space age buses for 1976 and fitted the Star Wars era perfect what whirr they made compered with
Growl of a Fleetline were never operated by West Midlands Travel and went when WMPTE closed Birchley Crossings in the run up to D Day.

The Ailsas all were operated by WMT with the exception of the three prototypes. However by that time they were all at Perry Barr. Some even received a Metrobus style livery. They were withdrawn and sold in 1987.