Blackheath Bus Services

[Sh4318]

An example of where a partnership agreement would work is on the Blackheath to Merry Hill a very popular route but if you just stand in bus stop at Salnsbury's the comments of a 4M stuck in front of 3 is worth standing in the stop alone for its gives a bad image of two buses to Merry Hill leaving together yes I know the 3 does Brickhouse & Saltwells but if the 3A was axed and the 14 rerouted via Stuart Rd with the 14A doing the reverse of Bell End a 20 min frequency on the 3 could coordinate with the 4M and the customer gets a 10mim frequency to Merry Hill equally get the E40Ds off the 13A and 13 & put the Omnis back on at 20 Min's frequency then the X8 & 13A would offer a 10min fitted timetable to Brum since July  the X8 & 13A are always fighting into the marketplace together at 35Min's again now the cut of the 13A has not gone down well its the image being portrayed to the customer of an uncoordinated shambles that's where I think partnerships would work on routes with no competition.

Stuart Road has had at least an every 30 minute frequency as long as I remember, is it really a good idea to reduce it to hourly?

[richardjones210368]

Stuart Road has had at least an every 30 minute frequency as long as I remember, is it really a good idea to reduce it to hourly?

The days of the 128 & 129 are long gone I know Stuart Road very well all my relatives are buried in St Giles and I was baptized and confirmed there it had the 238 every 20 mins at one point but honestly when I am on the 3A I cannot remember when I saw any one get on or off on it. Bell End, Spies Lane, Kent Road & Perry Park have all seen frequency reductions without a massive outcry increasing the main service up Hanover Road would surely be preferable and the little E200s on the 14 would help the drivers with the horrendous double parking in Stuart Road.

[Jack]

An example of where a partnership agreement would work is on the Blackheath to Merry Hill a very popular route but if you just stand in bus stop at Salnsbury's the comments of a 4M stuck in front of 3 is worth standing in the stop alone for its gives a bad image of two buses to Merry Hill leaving together yes I know the 3 does Brickhouse & Saltwells but if the 3A was axed and the 14 rerouted via Stuart Rd with the 14A doing the reverse of Bell End a 20 min frequency on the 3 could coordinate with the 4M and the customer gets a 10mim frequency to Merry Hill equally get the E40Ds off the 13A and 13 & put the Omnis back on at 20 Min's frequency then the X8 & 13A would offer a 10min fitted timetable to Brum since July  the X8 & 13A are always fighting into the marketplace together at 35Min's again now the cut of the 13A has not gone down well its the image being portrayed to the customer of an uncoordinated shambles that's where I think partnerships would work on routes with no competition.

The 3 (in my opinion) just mirrors off the smaller estates the 4M stops outside of. You've mentioned the Brickhouse which the 4M stops outside of, you've even got the 24 going along the border with the 3 connecting to it. The 3 isn't really that much of an 'important service' as you are trying to put, people in Blackheath would pick the 4M out of the rest because they don't want to be dwinding down on a bus through every estate (yes the 3 and 4M take around the same time to get to Mezza, but the 4M does beat it by a few minutes...)
The 4M serves more key areas than the 3 as well, Cradley Heath Station, Quarry Bank etc...
Something the 4M needs is a frequency increase because the route is quite important, being probably one of the most important in the Black Country with all the key links...
I can see your point about moving the 3 off Stuart Road, it doesn't help that longer buses can get stuck with parking on both sides.
Bell End/Mincing Lane (again) these roads are only short length and there's more frequent routes at either end, yes you did have the 127 serving it but I don't really see what point the 14A gives to that small section just being a handful of the same people... You've also got Britannia Road... I'm sure most people would walk to either end to get a more frequent route rather than a tendered service going everywhere before reaching Merry Hill.
One thing I could suggest to not lose time on the 4M would be to skip out Rowley Regis Hospital as it can take some time getting up and down from there, but that woud never happen with them removing the 3 and just the hourly 24...

[richardjones210368]

The 3 (in my opinion) just mirrors off the smaller estates the 4M stops outside of. You've mentioned the Brickhouse which the 4M stops outside of, you've even got the 24 going along the border with the 3 connecting to it. The 3 isn't really that much of an 'important service' as you are trying to put, people in Blackheath would pick the 4M out of the rest because they don't want to be dwinding down on a bus through every estate (yes the 3 and 4M take around the same time to get to Mezza, but the 4M does beat it by a few minutes...)
The 4M serves more key areas than the 3 as well, Cradley Heath Station, Quarry Bank etc...
Something the 4M needs is a frequency increase because the route is quite important, being probably one of the most important in the Black Country with all the key links...
I can see your point about moving the 3 off Stuart Road, it doesn't help that longer buses can get stuck with parking on both sides.
Bell End/Mincing Lane (again) these roads are only short length and there's more frequent routes at either end, yes you did have the 127 serving it but I don't really see what point the 14A gives to that small section just being a handful of the same people... You've also got Britannia Road... I'm sure most people would walk to either end to get a more frequent route rather than a tendered service going everywhere before reaching Merry Hill.
One thing I could suggest to not lose time on the 4M would be to skip out Rowley Regis Hospital as it can take some time getting up and down from there, but that woud never happen with them removing the 3 and just the hourly 24...

Very good well argued points there; top man;  however I don't think my 71 year old cousin who has just had a new hip would be too happy walking down to Oldbury Rd or from Tesco Express who lives in Uplands Avenue off Bell End and always uses the 14 it is vital these links continue for everyone to access public transport imagine the extra burden on Ring & ride without them. I think you need a regular service such as the 4M from Sandwell Hospital to Rowley Hospital I have on more than one occasion attended an out patients appointment at one and ended up at the other using the 4M so that link is vital to our community. I also have to  say the residents of Lion Farm regard the 3 as an important service. There is no sound business case for increasing the 4M the churn rate above the current frequency would reduce the break even ratio on the route which is not a sound business method. My argument is by tweaking the 3 into a fitted timetable with the 4M a 10 minuet frequency to the benefit of all passengers to Merry Hill would be created albeit by different routes but mate I really can see where your coming from with those comments they are a valuable insight from a younger busman and you are the future of buses aa to where the priorities should lie from  your perspective Merry Hill to Blackheath to Oldbury we need more of these.CHEERS

[Jack]

Very good well argued points there; top man;  however I don't think my 71 year old cousin who has just had a new hip would be too happy walking down to Oldbury Rd or from Tesco Express who lives in Uplands Avenue off Bell End and always uses the 14 it is vital these links continue for everyone to access public transport imagine the extra burden on Ring & ride without them. I think you need a regular service such as the 4M from Sandwell Hospital to Rowley Hospital I have on more than one occasion attended an out patients appointment at one and ended up at the other using the 4M so that link is vital to our community. I also have to  say the residents of Lion Farm regard the 3 as an important service. There is no sound business case for increasing the 4M the churn rate above the current frequency would reduce the break even ratio on the route which is not a sound business method. My argument is by tweaking the 3 into a fitted timetable with the 4M a 10 minuet frequency to the benefit of all passengers to Merry Hill would be created albeit by different routes but mate I really can see where your coming from with those comments they are a valuable insight from a younger busman and you are the future of buses aa to where the priorities should lie from  your perspective Merry Hill to Blackheath to Oldbury we need more of these.CHEERS

Of course, not everyone likes changes, but you get use to it after a while. The 4M link to Rowley Regis Hospital is vital, seeing as it's really the only commercial service to go up there now. You had the 289 (3) and the old 208 but it does get chaotic at times, especially with people parking for cemetery along Moor Lane. I do think Rowley Regis Hospital does need a better service that connects to Dudley, I mean it's fine if you want go all round the Black Country on the journey the 24 takes...
Lion Farm is really served by the 3 but if they rerouted it to not serve Stuart Road and re-route the 3A to do a loop up Hanover Road and down Stuart Road to Throne Road I'm sure it would help.

The main thing the 4M suffers (like other services) is the amount of traffic hotspots it gets into: getting in and out of Merry Hill can be chaos at this time of year and then it leads to Quarry Bank like a car park. Blackheath can be a particularly en route to Mezza, those traffic lights at the Oldbury Road/Henderson Way junction seem to be out of sync. Birchley Island/J2 is probably the worst, seems worse on the Merry Hill direction because getting onto the roundabout you have to wait until it's safe to go onto it with no traffic lights and it does back itself up. All Saints Way can be very clear but when the M5 is blocked then All Saints Way is blocked and then holds all surrounding roads and areas up... Stone Cross can get congested too during rush hour too. The 4 and 4H suffer all these (well upto Blackheath).

With the 4/4H/4M being quite important services I'd of thought they'd be getting upgraded, but if I remember correctly they only got upgraded when Diamond got the Centro's back in 2008/2009.

[richardjones210368]

Of course, not everyone likes changes, but you get use to it after a while. The 4M link to Rowley Regis Hospital is vital, seeing as it's really the only commercial service to go up there now. You had the 289 (3) and the old 208 but it does get chaotic at times, especially with people parking for cemetery along Moor Lane. I do think Rowley Regis Hospital does need a better service that connects to Dudley, I mean it's fine if you want go all round the Black Country on the journey the 24 takes...
Lion Farm is really served by the 3 but if they rerouted it to not serve Stuart Road and re-route the 3A to do a loop up Hanover Road and down Stuart Road to Throne Road I'm sure it would help.

The main thing the 4M suffers (like other services) is the amount of traffic hotspots it gets into: getting in and out of Merry Hill can be chaos at this time of year and then it leads to Quarry Bank like a car park. Blackheath can be a particularly en route to Mezza, those traffic lights at the Oldbury Road/Henderson Way junction seem to be out of sync. Birchley Island/J2 is probably the worst, seems worse on the Merry Hill direction because getting onto the roundabout you have to wait until it's safe to go onto it with no traffic lights and it does back itself up. All Saints Way can be very clear but when the M5 is blocked then All Saints Way is blocked and then holds all surrounding roads and areas up... Stone Cross can get congested too during rush hour too. The 4 and 4H suffer all these (well upto Blackheath).

With the 4/4H/4M being quite important services I'd of thought they'd be getting upgraded, but if I remember correctly they only got upgraded when Diamond got the Centro's back in 2008/2009.

Yes I really agree with you there on those points I am.surprised NXWM hasnt upgraded the 4s with E200s as with the Brum 4s but continue with those tatty down at heal Volvos on the 4H you would have thought they would cascade the surplus YW E200S to it it is odd & your are quite correct the last upgrade for Diamond were the Black Diamond Plaxton.Centros.

[Tony]

Yes I really agree with you there on those points I am.surprised NXWM hasnt upgraded the 4s with E200s as with the Brum 4s but continue with those tatty down at heal Volvos on the 4H you would have thought they would cascade the surplus YW E200S to it it is odd & your are quite correct the last upgrade for Diamond were the Black Diamond Plaxton.Centros.

The 4 isn't run by 'down at heel' Volvos. 11 E200MMC at YW is nowhere near enough buses to run the 4. Every full size Single deck at Walsall has had a refurb since those were delivered so is smarter anyway.

[Busboy105]

The 4 isn't run by 'down at heel' Volvos. 11 E200MMC at YW is nowhere near enough buses to run the 4. Every full size Single deck at Walsall has had a refurb since those were delivered so is smarter anyway.

The 4/H/M isn't even operated by Volvos it's Scanias.

[Jack]

The 4/H/M isn't even operated by Volvos it's Scanias.

It does see them quite often, not as much no since the 45 but you do get them on it often.

Yes I really agree with you there on those points I am.surprised NXWM hasnt upgraded the 4s with E200s as with the Brum 4s but continue with those tatty down at heal Volvos on the 4H you would have thought they would cascade the surplus YW E200S to it it is odd & your are quite correct the last upgrade for Diamond were the Black Diamond Plaxton.Centros.

I think that could be the worst upgrade 😂 those E200MMC's down have the strength the Omnilinks and B7RLE's have, the hills the 4M goes up are probably the worst ones you get anywhere, the Omnilinks do struggle but they are tough up them hills, Powke Lane isn't one you'd fancy walking up. Also I'm not sure the E200MMC's will actually do some of the tight corners on the 4M with their shoddy turning circle, I don't think they'd get round Rowley Hospital in one piece, and I can't see them getting round in one piece. Also I'm not sure how they manage the bumps at Cradley Heath, they have quite low suspension so I'd imagine it would damage them underneath. I'm not sure if one of WB's has creeped onto the 3 but if one has I'd be surprised how it got along Stuart Road...

One suggestion that has popped up into my head is if the 3A was to do the loop I earlier suggested, then I would re-route the 3 to go up Mincing Lane and then Bell End upto to Tesco Express, I mean that sounds a little pointless, but at least they've still got a bus service, frequency like the old 127 instead of the 14A.

[richardjones210368]

The 4/H/M isn't even operated by Volvos it's Scanias.

If you used the NXWM 4H which you obviously do not you will find Volvo B7s on it most days alongside the Scanias .

[Jack]

If you used the NXWM 4H which you obviously do not you will find Volvo B7s on it most days alongside the Scanias .

The E200's fo creep onto them if you want to include them.

[richardjones210368]

The E200's fo creep onto them if you want to include them.

Yes quite right Jack even the short wheel bases too.

[Jack]

Yes quite right Jack even the short wheel bases too.

Walsall don't have any SWB? It's just 8** examples.

[richardjones210368]

Walsall don't have any SWB? It's just 8** examples.

I have only ever seen one on it once & that was well over a year ago it was a funny sight and yes its always the 8** ones know.

[midlandred2003]

A earlier 4M from blackheath to merry hill would be benifit all the staff working there who start at between 5&6am.