Walsall Garage

[trident4370]

Personally to me, the ZF tridents seem throw you about too much and can be very jumpy and jerky, the voith seem much smoother. more controlled and sounds much better :P

[Kevin]

As it's a Walsall Garage thread....
I think the Gemini's on the X51 are a perfect choice, from a passenger point of view they just feel more suited to the express work and more comfortable than Tridents. Yes the tridents do "feel" faster (from the engine noise etc) if they do ever appear on the X51, and likewise the Omnilinks "feel" sluggish, but at speed listening to music ridiculously loud like I do, looking out the window I can't really notice any difference in how fast the wall of the underpass is going past me

[nitromatt1]

Slow & horrible? They are identical mechanically to all of AGs. The only difference is the seats and trim! They are certainly not slow, if you want them to they will beat Tridents and Enviros off from a standing start with the same load on

No, as I have explained before, certain buses can be worse than others which you'd expect to be identical on paper. The Walsall ones are horribly rough sounding, most of AG's aren't. They are also slow pulling off (even for B7s), a ZF Trident will leave any of those sheds standing off the mark, let alone a Euro 4

Have you travelled on all 7 recently to know they are all sheds. I am sorry Matt, but the couple that escaped onto V Festival this year were certainly not slow. It was one of those that a driver managed the fastest round trip with.

ZF gearboxes are sh*t. I hate them compared to Voith. They are the only bad thing about Geminis. They never change down smoothly without slight jerk to throw standing passengers. They have a habit of still trying to pull forward when you are down to 1-2 mph so you have to leave your foot on the brake slightly harder than with a voith so you don't get the perfect feathered stop without the slight rock back and generally seem more jumpy

I don't bother to remember the numbers, but whenever I catch a WA Gemini, they sound horribly rough, you can hardly hear the engine. People most likely think they're faster because of the speed of the routes they are used on X51, 997 etc; but in reality any B7TL Gemini would feel the same on those routes.

I prefer ZFs over Voiths in vehicle types where both gearboxes are available. This is simply due to the fact that they sound better, in my personal opinion. However, B7TL Geminis are slower pulling off than Tridents.

My bus stop is situated at the bottom of a hill, I have countless times caught the WB 241 on a Gemini which has pulled off on full power up the hill, and again many times the BC 9 on a ZF Trident pulling off at full power, and the Trident is always considerably faster. Fact.

[John]

Does anybody know which journey's the B7RLE operates on the 934/935/936 in the week? because I'm thinking of recording a vid of it :) on one of its journey's obviously ;)

I can't promise it was the correct working but the last time I photoed a B7RLE 934 it was the 11:18 departure from town, may not necessarily be the right board as it could have just been a second B7RLE on the route though but worth a go I guess.

Yes, 1759 left on the 934 this morning at that time, saw it on Moor Street at quarter past 11

[Tony]

I don't bother to remember the numbers, but whenever I catch a WA Gemini, they sound horribly rough, you can hardly hear the engine. People most likely think they're faster because of the speed of the routes they are used on X51, 997 etc; but in reality any B7TL Gemini would feel the same on those routes.

They sound horribly rough....... You can hardly hear the engine

Hardly hearing the engine sounds like they are in reasonable mechanical condition to me.

As for speed, it used to be quite common to be driving a trident on the 51 in the inside lane when an X51 would pull alongside in the middle lane to go under 6 ways underpass at Newtown baths. You would stand no chance of beating the Gemini with a trident off the lights

[andyr]

Think your wasting your breath Tony.. During my short time at Walsall it was always a pleasure to have a gemini. We used to have them on the 301s most Saturdays and were with out doubt the best bus i drove during my time at Wa.

[Kevin]

I don't bother to remember the numbers, but whenever I catch a WA Gemini, they sound horribly rough, you can hardly hear the engine. People most likely think they're faster because of the speed of the routes they are used on X51, 997 etc; but in reality any B7TL Gemini would feel the same on those routes.

But in the same vein, in the same location, I've been on a trident X51 that's pulled away quicker than an enviro 51 and Gemini 907 before... All down to the driver?

They sound horribly rough....... You can hardly hear the engine

Hardly hearing the engine sounds like they are in reasonable mechanical condition to me.

As for speed, it used to be quite common to be driving a trident on the 51 in the inside lane when an X51 would pull alongside in the middle lane to go under 6 ways underpass at Newtown baths. You would stand no chance of beating the Gemini with a trident off the lights

[Liverpool Street]

I don't bother to remember the numbers, but whenever I catch a WA Gemini, they sound horribly rough, you can hardly hear the engine. People most likely think they're faster because of the speed of the routes they are used on X51, 997 etc; but in reality any B7TL Gemini would feel the same on those routes.

But in the same vein, in the same location, I've been on a trident X51 that's pulled away quicker than an enviro 51 and Gemini 907 before... All down to the driver?

They sound horribly rough....... You can hardly hear the engine

Hardly hearing the engine sounds like they are in reasonable mechanical condition to me.

As for speed, it used to be quite common to be driving a trident on the 51 in the inside lane when an X51 would pull alongside in the middle lane to go under 6 ways underpass at Newtown baths. You would stand no chance of beating the Gemini with a trident off the lights

Kev, how do you know they've both put their foot on the accelerator the same amount?

[nitromatt1]

I don't bother to remember the numbers, but whenever I catch a WA Gemini, they sound horribly rough, you can hardly hear the engine. People most likely think they're faster because of the speed of the routes they are used on X51, 997 etc; but in reality any B7TL Gemini would feel the same on those routes.

But in the same vein, in the same location, I've been on a trident X51 that's pulled away quicker than an enviro 51 and Gemini 907 before... All down to the driver?

They sound horribly rough....... You can hardly hear the engine

Hardly hearing the engine sounds like they are in reasonable mechanical condition to me.

As for speed, it used to be quite common to be driving a trident on the 51 in the inside lane when an X51 would pull alongside in the middle lane to go under 6 ways underpass at Newtown baths. You would stand no chance of beating the Gemini with a trident off the lights

Kev, how do you know they've both put their foot on the accelerator the same amount?

Yes, it all of course depends on how enthusiastically the driver pulls off. When driving economically the performance of a bus is pretty irrelevant as pulling-off speeds will be pretty much the same

I don't know if it's just my over-observance but I can tell from the sound of the engine how far down the driver's foot is on the accelerator, particularly in ZFs and in Tridents. That way I know when a driver is giving it the beans and am able to judge the performance capability of the vehicle fairly well

[Mike K]

I think you have to accept it from the horse's mouth so to speak, i.e. those that drive these buses for a living. I agree with you Matt that Tridents tend to sound and feel quicker. The ALX B7s and Presidents always feel quite breathless by comparison. Given where I live I haven't travelled on that many B7 Geminis unfortunately.

But I never have and never will drive a bus and I don't think you can argue with those that drive these buses day in day out.

Spectras must be one of the slower buses in the current fleet, but the fastest driven bus I've ever been on has got to be 4015 on the 50 many years back. Ridiculous breakneck speed to the point of recklessness (one passenger was thrown out if his seat).

Most of the time it is down to the driver, not the bus.

[bususer12]

I think you have to accept it from the horse's mouth so to speak, i.e. those that drive these buses for a living. I agree with you Matt that Tridents tend to sound and feel quicker. The ALX B7s and Presidents always feel quite breathless by comparison. Given where I live I haven't travelled on that many B7 Geminis unfortunately.

But I never have and never will drive a bus and I don't think you can argue with those that drive these buses day in day out.

Spectras must be one of the slower buses in the current fleet, but the fastest driven bus I've ever been on has got to be 4015 on the 50 many years back. Ridiculous breakneck speed to the point of recklessness (one passenger was thrown out if his seat).

Most of the time it is down to the driver, not the bus.

Again, from observation, but spectras seems to coast well at 20, and once they're its not too bad, its just getting to 20.

[Kevin]

I don't bother to remember the numbers, but whenever I catch a WA Gemini, they sound horribly rough, you can hardly hear the engine. People most likely think they're faster because of the speed of the routes they are used on X51, 997 etc; but in reality any B7TL Gemini would feel the same on those routes.

But in the same vein, in the same location, I've been on a trident X51 that's pulled away quicker than an enviro 51 and Gemini 907 before... All down to the driver?

They sound horribly rough....... You can hardly hear the engine

Hardly hearing the engine sounds like they are in reasonable mechanical condition to me.

As for speed, it used to be quite common to be driving a trident on the 51 in the inside lane when an X51 would pull alongside in the middle lane to go under 6 ways underpass at Newtown baths. You would stand no chance of beating the Gemini with a trident off the lights

Kev, how do you know they've both put their foot on the accelerator the same amount?

I don't, that's kinda the point, just saying that the bus I was on was quicker than the buses next to it, and that this experience has happened with various types of buses at the sane place, so its not particularly that one type of bus is quicker than another

[Liverpool Street]

...
Spectras must be one of the slower buses in the current fleet, but the fastest driven bus I've ever been on has got to be 4015 on the 50 many years back. Ridiculous breakneck speed to the point of recklessness (one passenger was thrown out if his seat).
..

HAHAHA!! I laughed so hard at that post I herniated my gut! I'm literally crying lmao!

That's why they call it the race track.

I recall years ago with the 42xx's on there, you'll leave the outer and by the time you got down to the Maypole you'll be full. - and you still had people running for you!!

[Bob]

As it's a Walsall Garage thread....
I think the Gemini's on the X51 are a perfect choice, from a passenger point of view they just feel more suited to the express work and more comfortable than Tridents. Yes the tridents do "feel" faster (from the engine noise etc) if they do ever appear on the X51, and likewise the Omnilinks "feel" sluggish, but at speed listening to music ridiculously loud like I do, looking out the window I can't really notice any difference in how fast the wall of the underpass is going past me

Seats arent particularly comfy though, considering they're meant to be DP...

[Eric Shaw]

I travelled on 4682 on the X51 yesterday morning. It pulled up at traffic lights alogside a Scania on the 907 and was left standing when they accelerated away togather. It was then left behind when  pulling away from a stop on the hill into Walsall by an Enviro on the51. I had thought it was running on time but another X51 followed it into the bus station so was presumably 20 mins late.