The state of NXWM

[Kevin_Brum12]

I've had a look at the comments on the forum today and I have to say, I'm amazed!!!    NXWM aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination.   However, if you compare what bus services there are in Birmingham and the West Midlands at the present time compared to what there is in other parts of the UK, we get a fairly good deal.   We could be having day tickets costing  £6.20 a throw, or bus services that finish at 6pm on a weekday and do not run on Sundays and Bank Holidays, or the Manchester situation where because of the way Manchester buses were privatised you have one operator in the north and one in the south...

This needs challenging....

Okay let's get something straight here Dom, You're talking utter tripe and the figures quoted in the South Brum review topic also back that point up.... Bus usage has plummeted over the last few years and ask yourself why, I am not blaming everything on the metro but isn't it amazing the difference a few years has made in Birmingham, in exchange for approx 1 million more metro trips p/a.... WAS IT REALLY WORTH IT?!!!! I'm also under the impression sales of the "NBus" ticket have dropped considerably over the last couple of years. As per usual you are talking a load of biased rubbish because you seem to think tfwm are the golden organization despite the fact that MANY users on here, not just me, have made valid points about some of the awful things they have done, are doing and will unfortunately continue to do. You completely shut out other peoples opinions and points to suit your own agenda and seem unable to accept that bad decisions have been taken which are still having a longterm effect on people today and will continue to do so for many years to come, try telling people who have changed their commute that I am being childish. You do not even live in Birmingham or have to use its network daily so how can you tell me it is improved when all you do is sit in a bus shelter and count how many people get on or off a bus...

Let me also address your other points... Dudley Bus station sits right next to the Churchill centre as well being a 1 minute walk from the main Market st so do not give me that rubbish that they stop nowhere near the shops. How many routes in Wolverhampton only stop at the bus station? You are completely forgetting that most routes also stop on either Cleveland St, Market St, Bilston St, Stafford St or Lichfield St, ALL of which border the main shopping area. COMPLETELY different to Birmingham City Centre where the majority of routes have 1 "Main" stop or a pinch point stop and turn back around again, with the exception of a couple that unload only at the markets. This is exactly the point Kevin made a few comments above (I notice how you haven't bothered to reply to his points either...)  You are also missing the point that interchanging at such bus stations takes seconds as all of the bus stops are within metres of each other, unlike in Birmingham....

The fact bus usage has gone down is utterly nothing to do with the Midland Metro going down Corporation Street.  Firstly, not all bus users want to go to Birmingham City Centre.  Secondly, we have seen societal change.  More senior citizens are driving and driving for longer, so are using their passes less.  People now do shopping and banking online rather than taking a trip into town or the nearest High Street.  However, if you want an explanation as to why bus patronage is going down in the West Midlands (after a bilp when it went up in 2008) then consider this, consider the message it sends out to potential bus users and also consider this has been a constant theme from the journalists working for our local paper, and certain local councillors for the past ten years....

Birmingham Mail: Figures Released Show Birmingham's Most Crime Ridden bus routes

The reality is millions of bus journeys are made in the West Midlands are made daily without incident and unlike some parts of the country, crime and anti-social buses is taken seriously and there is a dedicated police team to deal with it.   And the journalists at the Mail can't even get their facts right –the most crime ridden route is not the 50 (198 crimes), but the 11 (362 with 11, 11A and 11C added).  But the 11 would have more crimes, as it covers more of Birmingham than the 50, and even then the statistical chances of being a victim of crime are very low.

Perhaps the Mail, rather than continuing with this click-bait journalism from a desk in a comfy office block might actually want to get its journalists to do some proper work, like finding out who commits the offences on the buses from the Police, what happens to them when they go to court and what other offences have been committed away from public transport as people who commit offences on buses, tend to commit offences elsewhere.  But that might involve them having to go out of their comfy office and - shock horror – having to use a bus to get across town?

Personally, I do believe that the public transport network around Birmingham City Centre is far improved now, even if passengers do have to walk to make connections. 

I'd agree with that but if you know the system you can make connections easily by using another bus.  I once heard someone complaining they had to walk all the way to the Hippodrome from the X51 bus stop.  It is easy enough to get off in Bull Street, walk down to Carrs Lane and get a 45/47 to the Indoor Market – with the Hippodrome about 5 minutes walk.  That suggests there is a communication issue and people don't realise how easy it is to make a connection across the city by using another service.

Buses now get out of the city much quicker.  The Corporation Street loop was horrendous during peak time.  It was known for some buses to take as much as 15 to 20 minutes to get around the loop and that was before they'd hit the traffic jams to get out the city.   And many of the changes we are seeing are being driven on NXWM because of worsening congestion, which the city council seem to be incapable of doing anything about.  Take the Stratford Road, nothing is done about the inconsiderate parking, parking on pavements, ignorance of the parking restrictions...no wonder the 5 is being diverted and the new 4 is being sent via Warwick Road.
   

You can just predict now the Mail going in all guns blazing when they finally do publish the changes... "National Express set to rip apart local Bus Network with just 3 weeks notice."

NXWM have actually done a huge consultation exercise lasting several months.   I've heard there were several thousand responses.  Not that long ago there would have been NO consultation.  Services would be changed and the first anyone would know would be when some posters appeared on buses a fortnight before.  The Mail can go in all guns blazing....however any bus operator, whether owned by the public or private sectors has to look at their network to meet needs and passenger requirements.   If TfWM owned the bus operator don't think things would be any better, in fact things could be worse especially if buses lost money and action needed to be taken to remove it.  WMPTE back in the day had big service cuts.

Finally – think about some of the good things we have:

•   Cheap fares compared to the other metropolitan areas and many parts of the UK;
•   Routes where patronage has grown (e.g. 98, X51, X2);
•   Platinum buses which are comfier for passengers and have free wi-fi  meaning you can do things on the move;
•   Contactless ticketing.

Are things really that bad?   I think people need to step back a bit and compare and contrast with other parts of the country.  There is a lot to do, and NXWM's PR and marketing effort needs to be improved.  But compared to 10-15 years ago things are much better.

[2206]

Birmingham Mail: Figures Released Show Birmingham's Most Crime Ridden bus routes

The reality is millions of bus journeys are made in the West Midlands are made daily without incident and unlike some parts of the country, crime and anti-social buses is taken seriously and there is a dedicated police team to deal with it.   And the journalists at the Mail can't even get their facts right –the most crime ridden route is not the 50 (198 crimes), but the 11 (362 with 11, 11A and 11C added).  But the 11 would have more crimes, as it covers more of Birmingham than the 50, and even then the statistical chances of being a victim of crime are very low.

There appears to be an error in the article there. It lists the 11 twice.
It lists the 11A and 11C seperatley as 90 and 100 (total = 190), and then again as a whole (both the 11A and 11C) as 172 (which therefore appears to be incorrect as 100 for the 11C and 90 for the 11A is 190).
Perhaps it should say 190 and not 172

There is only an 11A and 11C.
11A is anticlockwise. 11C is clockwise.
There is no third seperate 11 route.

Regarding the hippodrome, its quite a quick, short and easy to walk down, Bull Street, High Street, Smallbrook Queensway and Hill Street - Only a 10 minute journey. I've done it before and I don't see why anyone would need to catch a bus for a journey that short (2 stops on the 63/98/X61/X64).

[BigDaddyCool]

NXWM have faults, who doesn't, but as an operator, I wouldn't swap them for anyone. The network is fantastic, and remains a work in progress. Anyone who hammers them.quite simply doesn't rely on them enough.... because they wouldn't be hammering for much longer.

[Straightlines]

I've had a look at the comments on the forum today and I have to say, I'm amazed!!!    NXWM aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination.   However, if you compare what bus services there are in Birmingham and the West Midlands at the present time compared to what there is in other parts of the UK, we get a fairly good deal.   We could be having day tickets costing  £6.20 a throw, or bus services that finish at 6pm on a weekday and do not run on Sundays and Bank Holidays, or the Manchester situation where because of the way Manchester buses were privatised you have one operator in the north and one in the south...

Utter nonsense - The fares would be broadly similar/the same even if National Express weren't here. This is a common argument used by the usual suspects who will defend National Express to the hilt.

In layman's terms... National Express (and predecessors) have only found themselves in such a strong position because of the way they inherited the entire West Midlands bus market in 1986 and inherited the Travelcard scheme instead of this being devolved to WMPTE/Centro.

It is this monopoly that they currently preside over that is probably the reason we have seen this utter contempt and disregard to the Customer over forthcoming service changes due to take effect in just under 4 weeks time. Presumably they have known their own commercial intentions now for 43 days and probably longer!

I am all for free enterprise and believe that innovation works with the least influence from the public sector. But, if the result is this total silence from the dominant bus operator when they have bad news then roll on franchising!

[V89MOA]

Well for starters as anyone who had read it properly would realise, my second quoted comment was actually a dig at the Birmingham Mail's anti bus agenda, not National Express, secondly if you think for one minute that because things may or may not be better than before that people should effectively shut up and grateful then you are out of touch... National Express are providing a commercial service, the people who's voices matter the most are the very people who pay their bills,  the customers. You'll also find that many City Centre serving routes have seen cuts in frequency (particularly Off Peak) since the metro changes came in so unless nxwm like turning demand away then yes the metro has had something to do with it... The Bristol Road, Pershore Road, Dudley Road, Stratford Road locals and in some respects the local Walsall road (redeemed somewhat by extra platinums that omit most stops) and Lichfield road corridors appear to have seen cuts to either overall frequency or total bph since then and the Harborne routes appear to be next. Also to say that my points need challenging and then go off on a pro NXWM rant speaks volumes when I haven't actually been very critical of national express at all, my issues lie with tfwm/Centro and a very STUPID decision made several years ago which is still having an effect today as can be seen every day in birmingham city centre, not just with roads that cannot cope but also pavements that are solid with too many passengers squashed in, Carrs Lane being a very good example when before passengers were spread out across several stops... If you had properly read half of what you have quoted me saying then you would have understood who I was criticizing!
I have criticized the handling of the south Birmingham review yes and I stand by those comments because I think it is ridiculous that people are being denied the right to this information when the changes are less than a month away. It is also ridiculous that when false Chinese whispers are circulating on Facebook pages that nobody from NXWM has stepped in to dismiss or confirm the rumours while many people are taking it as gospel. Overall though I have very little issue with NX!
It's also laughable you have tried to dismiss what I said by saying not everybody wants to go to Birmingham, then in the next breath you are praising the platinum buses which are pretty much concentrated on Birmingham serving routes!! So in essence you have inadvertently admitted that a Chunk of the passengers are being left behind there... You've also quoted the X2 as having growing passenger numbers yet not so long ago it saw the off peak frequency cut (the time of day when before most Birmingham shoppers would be travelling), it can't be doing that well compared to other routes... And the 98 is being withdrawn so again.... Not that any of its users know yet though. ::)
Also seeing as you have mentioned it... a Stagecoach Manchester Dayrider is 10p cheaper than NXWM (as is the daily London bus cap) , a Cardiff bus day ticket is £3.80 and a Lothian dayrider is £4 so the fares are pretty average for a large city network and as Straightlines has said the fares would be in the same ballpark whoever had the monopoly here... Although you'll actually find that getting returns to Brum on the train from Most local Birmingham stations usually offers customers better value anyway, in terms of both price and speed, especially after 9:30 and the trains will also take you closer to the shops than the buses do!  ;)
If you really want to "compare here with other parts of the country" then look at how well Manchester, Edinburgh, Nottingham and Sheffield's tram systems work in harmony with the local buses.

[lauren1993]

Well for starters as anyone who had read it properly would realise, my second quoted comment was actually a dig at the Birmingham Mail's anti bus agenda, not National Express, secondly if you think for one minute that because things may or may not be better than before that people should effectively shut up and grateful then you are out of touch... National Express are providing a commercial service, the people who's voices matter the most are the very people who pay their bills,  the customers. You'll also find that many City Centre serving routes have seen cuts in frequency (particularly Off Peak) since the metro changes came in so unless nxwm like turning demand away then yes the metro has had something to do with it... The Bristol Road, Pershore Road, Dudley Road, Stratford Road locals and in some respects the local Walsall road (redeemed somewhat by extra platinums that omit most stops) and Lichfield road corridors appear to have seen cuts to either overall frequency or total bph since then and the Harborne routes appear to be next. Also to say that my points need challenging and then go off on a pro NXWM rant speaks volumes when I haven't actually been very critical of national express at all, my issues lie with tfwm/Centro and a very STUPID decision made several years ago which is still having an effect today as can be seen every day in birmingham city centre, not just with roads that cannot cope but also pavements that are solid with too many passengers squashed in, Carrs Lane being a very good example when before passengers were spread out across several stops... If you had properly read half of what you have quoted me saying then you would have understood who I was criticizing!
I have criticized the handling of the south Birmingham review yes and I stand by those comments because I think it is ridiculous that people are being denied the right to this information when the changes are less than a month away. It is also ridiculous that when false Chinese whispers are circulating on Facebook pages that nobody from NXWM has stepped in to dismiss or confirm the rumours while many people are taking it as gospel. Overall though I have very little issue with NX!
It's also laughable you have tried to dismiss what I said by saying not everybody wants to go to Birmingham, then in the next breath you are praising the platinum buses which are pretty much concentrated on Birmingham serving routes!! So in essence you have inadvertently admitted that a Chunk of the passengers are being left behind there... You've also quoted the X2 as having growing passenger numbers yet not so long ago it saw the off peak frequency cut (the time of day when before most Birmingham shoppers would be travelling), it can't be doing that well compared to other routes... And the 98 is being withdrawn so again.... Not that any of its users know yet though. ::)
Also seeing as you have mentioned it... a Stagecoach Manchester Dayrider is 10p cheaper than NXWM (as is the daily London bus cap) , a Cardiff bus day ticket is £3.80 and a Lothian dayrider is £4 so the fares are pretty average for a large city network and as Straightlines has said the fares would be in the same ballpark whoever had the monopoly here... Although you'll actually find that getting returns to Brum on the train from Most local Birmingham stations usually offers customers better value anyway, in terms of both price and speed, especially after 9:30 and the trains will also take you closer to the shops than the buses do!  ;)
If you really want to "compare here with other parts of the country" then look at how well Manchester, Edinburgh, Nottingham and Sheffield's tram systems work in harmony with the local buses.

A Stagecoach Manchester dayrider is £4.50 all day though whereas an nxwm daysaver is £4 after 9:30. Also the singles in Manchester on Stagecoach are a lot higher for the mileage than nxwm as they use fare stages whereas nxwm don't, which is a lot better.

[Kevin_Brum12]

Well for starters as anyone who had read it properly would realise, my second quoted comment was actually a dig at the Birmingham Mail's anti bus agenda, not National Express, secondly if you think for one minute that because things may or may not be better than before that people should effectively shut up and grateful then you are out of touch... National Express are providing a commercial service, the people who's voices matter the most are the very people who pay their bills,  the customers. You'll also find that many City Centre serving routes have seen cuts in frequency (particularly Off Peak) since the metro changes came in so unless nxwm like turning demand away then yes the metro has had something to do with it... The Bristol Road, Pershore Road, Dudley Road, Stratford Road locals and in some respects the local Walsall road (redeemed somewhat by extra platinums that omit most stops) and Lichfield road corridors appear to have seen cuts to either overall frequency or total bph since then and the Harborne routes appear to be next. Also to say that my points need challenging and then go off on a pro NXWM rant speaks volumes when I haven't actually been very critical of national express at all, my issues lie with tfwm/Centro and a very STUPID decision made several years ago which is still having an effect today as can be seen every day in birmingham city centre, not just with roads that cannot cope but also pavements that are solid with too many passengers squashed in, Carrs Lane being a very good example when before passengers were spread out across several stops... If you had properly read half of what you have quoted me saying then you would have understood who I was criticizing!
I have criticized the handling of the south Birmingham review yes and I stand by those comments because I think it is ridiculous that people are being denied the right to this information when the changes are less than a month away. It is also ridiculous that when false Chinese whispers are circulating on Facebook pages that nobody from NXWM has stepped in to dismiss or confirm the rumours while many people are taking it as gospel. Overall though I have very little issue with NX!
It's also laughable you have tried to dismiss what I said by saying not everybody wants to go to Birmingham, then in the next breath you are praising the platinum buses which are pretty much concentrated on Birmingham serving routes!! So in essence you have inadvertently admitted that a Chunk of the passengers are being left behind there... You've also quoted the X2 as having growing passenger numbers yet not so long ago it saw the off peak frequency cut (the time of day when before most Birmingham shoppers would be travelling), it can't be doing that well compared to other routes... And the 98 is being withdrawn so again.... Not that any of its users know yet though. ::)
Also seeing as you have mentioned it... a Stagecoach Manchester Dayrider is 10p cheaper than NXWM (as is the daily London bus cap) , a Cardiff bus day ticket is £3.80 and a Lothian dayrider is £4 so the fares are pretty average for a large city network and as Straightlines has said the fares would be in the same ballpark whoever had the monopoly here... Although you'll actually find that getting returns to Brum on the train from Most local Birmingham stations usually offers customers better value anyway, in terms of both price and speed, especially after 9:30 and the trains will also take you closer to the shops than the buses do!  ;)
If you really want to "compare here with other parts of the country" then look at how well Manchester, Edinburgh, Nottingham and Sheffield's tram systems work in harmony with the local buses.

Stagecoach Megarider is not much use if you want to go across Manchester by bus owing to the north/south split.  Then you have to buy a System one ticket - cost £5.60 (more than the NXWM ticket which covers their services covering whole West Midlands).  Cardiff and Lothian are smaller networks compared to the West Midlands. 

Yes the Birmingham Platinum routes start in the city centre but do carry flows to other places - and if you take the Sutton routes there are plenty of people going from Erdington to Sutton.  Not everything revolves around Birmingham City Centre, despite what the planners and politicians believe.  And again, not everyone wants to go to Birmingham City Centre.

The X2 is busier than the old 57/957 was.

Thinning frequencices?  Buses are still running up to every 10 minutes on the main corridors.  The West Midlands is not like some places where a "frequent" bus service is one running every 30 minutes.   

I'd agree that NXWM should  have given the details of the service changes in South Birmingham much sooner, especially as TfWM were aware of them ages ago (the law stating they have to be advised before the changes are registered).   Again, this is another example of NXWM's poor marketing and PR which needs to be improved.  As is the continual "buses are unsafe" bashing by the Birmingham Mail - which has driven passengers away, paints a totally false picture and which the company has not dealt with.  Does the Machester Evening News, or Liverpool Echo, or Yorkshire Evening Post run these stories continually?  No they don't.  Do they run positive stories about the bus operators when they launch new routes or do something good.   Yes they do.  Where were the Mail at the Acocks Green Open Day?  Did anyone at NXWM actually tell them?

Can I ask V89MOA do you actually use the buses every day to commute?   Did you use them in the days when Travel West Midlands as was were running decrepit Metrobuses and the dreadful Leyland Lynx on main routes?  When most of the stops had no timetables?   Where fares went up and there was little evidence of improvement - unless you lived on the 50?  Where TWM were actually light years behind Nottingham, Cardiff, Brighton etc.  (NXWM still are not all the way there, but are nearly there).  If you remember that as I do, then surely what we have now is an improvement.

[Trident 4194]

I personally hate this pay £5 for an nbus before 9:30 business. Quite frankly find it ridiculous. It was intended to keep the old people off fair enough. Yet they can now pay a £1 a trip. Where's the logic in that? Traffic is worst than ever especially in Birmingham causing people to rely on unreliable services, and therefore will decide to buy a car if they can. The constant changes arent Helping passenger numbers either. It's ridiculous how far away services stop from each other, I agree however there's not much that can be done about that due to the vast number of services with very high frequencies. Platinum is overrated I must admit. I had a far better journey yesterday on 4806 than 6711 which has constant rattles. I've said it before and I'll say it again nx have far too much power, and unfortunately diamond will never be able to challenge.

[Solo1]

Regards the oap &paying .£1 per trip how many do you see at say 8am & they  may have hospital appointment it's cheaper than a taxi so well done nxbus for this taxi minimum fare £3. Bus £1. 

[BigDaddyCool]

Stops few and far between? Good. That speeds up journey times, which for most is a common factor in currently putting them off using the bus! I live in hope that this review will go a long way to keeping the promise of more efficient journies, however, from what I have seen so far I'm not sure it'll work out quite this way.

[V89MOA]

Stagecoach Megarider is not much use if you want to go across Manchester by bus owing to the north/south split.  Then you have to buy a System one ticket - cost £5.60 (more than the NXWM ticket which covers their services covering whole West Midlands).  Cardiff and Lothian are smaller networks compared to the West Midlands. 

Yes the Birmingham Platinum routes start in the city centre but do carry flows to other places - and if you take the Sutton routes there are plenty of people going from Erdington to Sutton.  Not everything revolves around Birmingham City Centre, despite what the planners and politicians believe.  And again, not everyone wants to go to Birmingham City Centre.

The X2 is busier than the old 57/957 was.

Thinning frequencices?  Buses are still running up to every 10 minutes on the main corridors.  The West Midlands is not like some places where a "frequent" bus service is one running every 30 minutes.   

I'd agree that NXWM should  have given the details of the service changes in South Birmingham much sooner, especially as TfWM were aware of them ages ago (the law stating they have to be advised before the changes are registered).   Again, this is another example of NXWM's poor marketing and PR which needs to be improved.  As is the continual "buses are unsafe" bashing by the Birmingham Mail - which has driven passengers away, paints a totally false picture and which the company has not dealt with.  Does the Machester Evening News, or Liverpool Echo, or Yorkshire Evening Post run these stories continually?  No they don't.  Do they run positive stories about the bus operators when they launch new routes or do something good.   Yes they do.  Where were the Mail at the Acocks Green Open Day?  Did anyone at NXWM actually tell them?

Can I ask V89MOA do you actually use the buses every day to commute?   Did you use them in the days when Travel West Midlands as was were running decrepit Metrobuses and the dreadful Leyland Lynx on main routes?  When most of the stops had no timetables?   Where fares went up and there was little evidence of improvement - unless you lived on the 50?  Where TWM were actually light years behind Nottingham, Cardiff, Brighton etc.  (NXWM still are not all the way there, but are nearly there).  If you remember that as I do, then surely what we have now is an improvement.

They may well be smaller networks but my point was specifically about Birmingham residents, people have been asking NXWM for cheaper Birmingham city only tickets and passes for years but they won't do that... How many people actually use a daysaver to travel from Coventry to Wolverhampton? Most people I can assure you do not but have to buy a daysaver anyway, it may well be a bigger network but  if you have no intentions of using it then it's all a bit irrelevant isnt it. As I say the prices are benchmark for a city network...

Thinning frequencies yes, buses may "still be every 10 on main corridors" but that doesnt mean they aren't worse now than they were....
So you're trying to tell me that the X2 which currently has 3 bph off peak is carrying more than the 57/57A which had 6? No wonder you aren't making sense.

In answer to your TWM point yes I did actually used to live on a local Metrobus/lynx route which had a bus every 12 minutes, ironically numbered the 12.Today that route (now 3) only runs every 20 minutes and currently has 16 year old buses (pretty much lynx age at the time) on it so No I wouldn't have said it has improved since TWM ran it at all, just more expensive, a worse city centre routing and less frequent which can be said about a lot of routes in Birmingham that have died since 2012, thankfully though I don't rely on that route anymore (my bus stop had a timetable too).

Your bold point of not everyone wants to go to the city centre is ironically truer now than it was before the routes were ruined, this is why there are so many cars now because it's just more convenient.

And again quoting me about the mail even though I've slated them?

A Stagecoach Manchester dayrider is £4.50 all day though whereas an nxwm daysaver is £4 after 9:30. Also the singles in Manchester on Stagecoach are a lot higher for the mileage than nxwm as they use fare stages whereas nxwm don't, which is a lot better.

Yes because comparing an all day ticket with an off-peak ticket makes total sense, before 9:30 nxwm are 10p more expensive. Nxwm do use fare stages, how else do you think the distance for a Short Hop ticket is calculated?

[Kevin]

Stops few and far between? Good. That speeds up journey times, which for most is a common factor in currently putting them off using the bus!.....

Alas, separate argument to be had here. And when they try to get rid of some bus stops because they're too close together the paper decries it and the masses revolt

Can't please everyone can you?

[Ian Hardy]

Think yourselves lucky that you don't live in London, the way TfL consults on changes is:

1. TfL offer the route out to tender (with the revised routing / frequency etc already in the contract spec).
2. TfL award the route contract (with any revised pvr etc).
3. TfL start the consultation on their website asking for comments.
4. TfL make the changes even if 50% of the responses do not agree.

There was one time when TfL did stop their plans, this was the Finchley Road changes where route 13 (Golders Green to Aldwych) was going to be withdrawn. The local MP got involved stating that a historic route such as the 13 could not be withdrawn; as it was near some elections the changes were cancelled.

Guess what, a few years later TfL made the changes but route 82 (North Finchley to Victoria) was renumbered 13 and the existing route 13 was withdrawn, so TfL did what they wanted to do all along.

At least NXWM consult before they have finalised their plans, the added bonus is that they are not beholden to politicians who think they know best. TfL reduced frequencies in Central London because usage had reduced significantly, they said that the resources would be used in outer London where using was not reducing, guest what they are now reducing so routes that were every 8 minutes are now every 10 minutes. TfL catch phrase is "Every Journey Matters" - B*****ks. However the one good thing is that I will say that that evening and Sunday services in London are very good.

Ian Hardy   

[Bob]

Try living on the edge of the WM in Cannock and having NO evening or Sunday buses and the standard of service provided by Arriva and tell me youre bad off 🤣