For Sale

[Bruce_LOA400X]

there will be some transfers from Leicester to Northampton in the new year, leicester will have some incoming single deckers from Potteries, sound to me like they are tarting both up a weeny bit making a package out the two and flogging them.

Leicester should fetch a decent if it was up for sale, with Northampton tagged on to Leicester First would at least get something for the operation instead of having pay the associated costs of closing it down

Indeed, but I still think its going to be the only feasible option to help sell northampton. if First are to make a good amount of profit the odd profit making area will have to be sold off.

[winston]

Indeed, but I still think its going to be the only feasible option to help sell northampton. if First are to make a good amount of profit the odd profit making area will have to be sold off.

Northampton is now a shadow of its former self from back when GRT bought it, Stagecoach seem to make money out of its Northampton operations judging by the regular investment it makes in new vehicles/growth of the business over the years. Surely another operator could turn around the First operation from loss making in to a profitable one once again & look to grow the business.... I would have thought that operating what's left of First Northampton out of the former James St depot must cost quite a bit in overheads to run & maintain for the size of the current fleet, smaller premises would be surely be more suitable.

I think First would receive a decent price it they offered Leicester & Northampton for sale as a package, it would also save First the cost of shutting down the Northampton business down if it fails to find a buyer.

First would do well to sell off a few smaller profitable operations to achieve the £100 million disposal target to keep shareholders happy, losing the profit off a couple 100-150 bus businesses will not make as much different to group profits as what could be achieved by improving the profit margins at one or two of the former PTE operations like Manchester / South Yorkshire / Glasgow etc by a couple of percent

[jc]

Looks like there should be more progress coming soon, seems a sale could still be on the cards, pending DFT or whoever it is clearing the deal!

[winston]

Looks like there should be more progress coming soon, seems a sale could still be on the cards, pending DFT or whoever it is clearing the deal!

JC,

Is that to do with the post on Midlandred.net about Rotala senior management having a guided tour of FMR Redditch depot?

[jc]

It is very closely linked with that, however, i personally can see the traffic commissioner blocking the deal as it would eliminate the competition in the area, apart from the odd service from Stagecoach, Woosh, Johnsons, Greenbus and Dudley's

[Ash]

If First were to sell their Redditch depot to diamond, would that mean the vehicles allocated their would be transferred to diamond's fleet or would diamond have to get their own vehicles to operate the services. As i thought Rotala weren't making enough profit to buy vehicles let alone buy out first in redditch.

[winston]

If First were to sell their Redditch depot to diamond, would that mean the vehicles allocated their would be transferred to diamond's fleet or would diamond have to get their own vehicles to operate the services. As i thought Rotala weren't making enough profit to buy vehicles let alone buy out first in redditch.

Rotala still have around £9.2 million of the RBS £11 Million new banking facility left, but as Rotala haven't got a very good track record in terms of increasing group profit margins, I fail to see how taking on Redditch (which could be loss making) will be of benefit, other than they would eliminate the competition, this is all assuming a deal between Rotala & First would get passed by the Dft / MMC

[tank90]

I think we should wait to see what First are going to make public as I'm sure they are starting to get a little fustrated with us making links and prosumptions about what they are going to do with there Kidder and Redditch operations.
For all we know First may not be selling Redditch and Kidder after all and are looking at other depots in there network or are planning to sell the Depot sites at Redditch (to Diamond) and Kidder (to someone else) and open a new one in Bromsgrove to serve both Redditch and Kidder which would reduce there over heads and also mean they keep the number of buses and routes with some routes moving from Worcester (144) and Kidder (303) to allow this to happen. But I must stress that is something I have thought and really we should wait to hear what First are doing.

[richie]

I think we should wait to see what First are going to make public as I'm sure they are starting to get a little fustrated with us making links and prosumptions about what they are going to do with there Kidder and Redditch operations.
For all we know First may not be selling Redditch and Kidder after all and are looking at other depots in there network or are planning to sell the Depot sites at Redditch (to Diamond) and Kidder (to someone else) and open a new one in Bromsgrove to serve both Redditch and Kidder which would reduce there over heads and also mean they keep the number of buses and routes with some routes moving from Worcester (144) and Kidder (303) to allow this to happen. But I must stress that is something I have thought and really we should wait to hear what First are doing.

I am sure first really don't care what we think or speculate

[winston]

I think we should wait to see what First are going to make public as I'm sure they are starting to get a little fustrated with us making links and prosumptions about what they are going to do with there Kidder and Redditch operations.
For all we know First may not be selling Redditch and Kidder after all and are looking at other depots in there network or are planning to sell the Depot sites at Redditch (to Diamond) and Kidder (to someone else) and open a new one in Bromsgrove to serve both Redditch and Kidder which would reduce there over heads and also mean they keep the number of buses and routes with some routes moving from Worcester (144) and Kidder (303) to allow this to happen. But I must stress that is something I have thought and really we should wait to hear what First are doing.

I am sure first really don't care what we think or speculate

Richie, your suggestion of transferring some of NX's reserve fleet in to Wyvern could still be a possibility, there may well be a purpose built bus depot for sale / lease in KR soon

[winston]

I think we should wait to see what First are going to make public as I'm sure they are starting to get a little fustrated with us making links and prosumptions about what they are going to do with there Kidder and Redditch operations.
For all we know First may not be selling Redditch and Kidder after all and are looking at other depots in there network or are planning to sell the Depot sites at Redditch (to Diamond) and Kidder (to someone else) and open a new one in Bromsgrove to serve both Redditch and Kidder which would reduce there over heads and also mean they keep the number of buses and routes with some routes moving from Worcester (144) and Kidder (303) to allow this to happen. But I must stress that is something I have thought and really we should wait to hear what First are doing.

I very much doubt FMR would be able to get funding from HQ to fund the building of a new depot even if would save on overheads, First have much bigger problems to deal with than Wyvern. The most cost effective option is to sell, closing down the operations will incur First redundancy costs etc

[richie]

I think we should wait to see what First are going to make public as I'm sure they are starting to get a little fustrated with us making links and prosumptions about what they are going to do with there Kidder and Redditch operations.
For all we know First may not be selling Redditch and Kidder after all and are looking at other depots in there network or are planning to sell the Depot sites at Redditch (to Diamond) and Kidder (to someone else) and open a new one in Bromsgrove to serve both Redditch and Kidder which would reduce there over heads and also mean they keep the number of buses and routes with some routes moving from Worcester (144) and Kidder (303) to allow this to happen. But I must stress that is something I have thought and really we should wait to hear what First are doing.

I am sure first really don't care what we think or speculate

Richie, your suggestion of transferring some of NX's reserve fleet in to Wyvern could still be a possibility, there may well be a purpose built bus depot for sale / lease in KR soon

Fingers crossed it has been a long time since NX have expanded its bus division.

[winston]

Fingers crossed it has been a long time since NX have expanded its bus division.
[/quote]

I'll second that.... I'd like to see NX expand its UK bus division, NX are now in a much stronger financial position so financing any deals shouldn't be a problem

[Discodave]

sounds all goo but the oft are really meesing thing all with all of first stuff they are trying to sell look at devon

[winston]

Rotala have agreed to acquire both KR & RH operations from First Group for £1.5 Million, plus 36 vehicles they will both continue to run the services that are currently operated

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=11467083

I don't see how Rotala agreeing buying Redditch will be passed by the Oft / MMC, the deal will lead to drastically reduced competition, frequency cuts of combined services & no doubt fare hikes, the deal includes 15 buses less than Wyvern currently operate, I wonder if this will be how many fewer buses will operate in Redditch when Red Diamond / First Wyvern operations are merged? 

I that's only around £29 Million that First have now raised towards the £100 Million worth of UK bus disposals