Hybrid v conventional diesel - interesting reading

[Mike K]

Came across this presentation on NX's hybrids which contains some very interesting info including:
Passenger patronage dropped when the hybrids were introduced which was attributed partly to a spike in the number of passengers vomiting!
Overall, between 2015 and 2017 the B5LH has proved more reliable than the E400H and the E400 Euro 5
Batteries are degrading and fuel consumption is going up on the E400H
The B5LH is demonstrating no battery degradation and fuel economy is better than the E400H
The 19 full electric buses due next year will be ADL E200 EVs

I bet NX wish they'd gone for all B5LH rather than the 30 E400Hs...

http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/presentations/7.%20Hybrid%20Buses%20in%20Birmingham%20-%20Darren%20Astbury,%20National%20Express.pdf

[MasterPlan]

I can't speak for WN's Hybrids but personally I like the Geminis. I was kinda hoping for more of them to be honest.

[GeminiFan1991]

Quite an interesting read. The B5s come across as a good investment. After 5 years, it's good to think no battery degradation has been found on them compared to the E400H which is comparatively so bad, it's caused a decline in its fuel economy.

Unless I've missed something, do garages need to be modified to accommodate charging an electric bus ?

Just occurred to me that I've never been on 1 of WN's hybrids !

[Isle of Stroma]

Air quality REDUCTON plans????

I have my reservations about comparitive figures taken since the types separated onto different routes.

Also, the reduction in patronage. Would that have anything to do with reduced capacity & bloody awful lower-deck seating layout on the Volvos??

[Mike K]

Air quality REDUCTON plans????

I have my reservations about comparitive figures taken since the types separated onto different routes.

Also, the reduction in patronage. Would that have anything to do with reduced capacity & bloody awful lower-deck seating layout on the Volvos??

Fair point re comparables but are the WN1 and BC22/23 that fundamentally different to affect things like breakdowns or battery life? If one was a high speed express with buses pushed hard then yes, but they're both urban all stop routes that encounter some serious traffic.

I'm sure I recall an 'in the know' person posting on here that the B5LHs were returning far better fuel figures than the E400H when the types were split across both garages.

You're not wrong about the downstairs layout on the Volvos.

[MW]

In a nutshell, Volvo drivetrains are much better than anything ADL make. And this confirms it. ADL is only as popular as it is due to price. Anything in the NXWM fleet can be compared. Prime example being the Tridents vs the Volvo B7TLs. Vastly superior bus, the Volvo.

Same goes for Wrightbus, as the guys that design the body, not the chassis.

ADL is cheap crap. The car comparison would probably be Rover or Vauxhall.

[Stevo]

Reading Buses and East Yorkshire have converted some of their E400Hs from hybrid to straight diesel. This tell us why. I wonder if NXWM might do the same. Seeing the graphics of the new smart hybrids I wonder if that's a 6 cylinder Cummins or if they could manage with the 4 cylinder like the E200MMCs.

[Sayeed]

Reading Buses and East Yorkshire have converted some of their E400Hs from hybrid to straight diesel. This tell us why. I wonder if NXWM might do the same. Seeing the graphics of the new smart hybrids I wonder if that's a 6 cylinder Cummins or if they could manage with the 4 cylinder like the E200MMCs.

Apparently it is going to happen according to one of the drivers.

[Ronnoc]

In a nutshell, Volvo drivetrains are much better than anything ADL make. And this confirms it. ADL is only as popular as it is due to price. Anything in the NXWM fleet can be compared. Prime example being the Tridents vs the Volvo B7TLs. Vastly superior bus, the Volvo.

Same goes for Wrightbus, as the guys that design the body, not the chassis.

ADL is cheap crap. The car comparison would probably be Rover or Vauxhall.

IMO most buses ADL make are far superior compared to Wrightbus buses. Such as the MMC against the Streetdeck, the MMC wins by far.

[MW]

IMO most buses ADL make are far superior compared to Wrightbus buses. Such as the MMC against the Streetdeck, the MMC wins by far.

Yeah I was referring to Volvos with Wrightbus bodywork really.

[Jack]

Yeah I was referring to Volvos with Wrightbus bodywork really.

I agree with you. Just look at the Gemini's! They look stunning and have a great bodywork. ALX400 bodywork isn't too bad but it is just so bland looking. I prefer curves.

[Dom]

IMO most buses ADL make are far superior compared to Wrightbus buses. Such as the MMC against the Streetdeck, the MMC wins by far.

Why does it?

[Trident 4194]

Why does it?

I'm sure someone has said that the streetdeck gives better results than the mmc. Personally I prefer the streetdeck, and luckily travel on one pretty much everyday

[MW]

I agree with you. Just look at the Gemini's! They look stunning and have a great bodywork. ALX400 bodywork isn't too bad but it is just so bland looking. I prefer curves.

Agreed, although I was talking more from a quality point of view.

[Mike K]

A lot of what constitutes a good bus vs a bad bus is down to opinion, but on the subject of hybrids you can't really argue with the facts in that presentation. Battery degradation and worsening fuel economy are not good on a bus which cost a huge premium in the first place. And whilst the reliability graph is up and down, overall the trend is poor - from what I've gathered on here 5402, 5403 and 5409 have or are all spending lengthy spells off the road.

If you read up you can find stories of Stagecoach Sheffield and Manchester E400Hs which don't paint them in a very good light. Apparently Lothian's haven't been great either - the first and last ADL buses they've bought in a long while.

All in all, an expensive mistake, although fortunately subsidised. Hopefully the new MMCs, which don't have a battery, will be more reliable.

(I would love to see some Platinum Wright Volvo B5TLs though).