South Birmingham Consultation 2017

[2206]

I've just noticed on the City Centre map (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information) that it mentions that "all buses towards Stratford Road now run along Digbeth High Street and Camp Hill (instead of Bradford Street)" yet this is not mentioned in the changes to the 2 & 3 or 5?

Also with regard to the 5, while it mentions that Springfield Road will no longer be served and will use Showell Green Road instead, it is not clear exactly what route it will take inbetween. Will it use Yardley Wood Road, then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road, or will it continue along Yardley Wood Road (alongside the 2 and 3), then follow the 11A/C along Swanshurst Lane?

The map on the website shows that it would use, Wake Green Road.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamchangesMapforWeb.pdf

[Stu]

With respect to the East Birmingham/North Solihull changes a lot of protests were made at the axing of the 59 route, but nothing has happened and no independents have come forward to run a replacement.

Which suggests that a replacement wasn't needed! igo did to be fair extend their 99 service from Lea Village to Chester Road (Morrisons Castle Bromwich) to replace that part, but I couldn't tell you how well it is used.

I did personally need to travel to Shard End the other week, but used the 11A and 55, I don't think it took much longer from Swan Island than it would have done if the 59 was still running.

[BigDaddyCool]

I've seen posts on a couple of websites bemoaning the lack of a service to the city centre from Shenley Lane. To me, that, Barnes Hill and the Alwold Road end of Weoley Castle are the biggest shocks to come out of the review. It's not like they're minor inconsequential areas where a link to the city would be a nice to have. It's a glaring omission.

It's a shame there's no viable competition to NX in Birmingham, as there would be a potential opportunity there for another operator in those areas.

And agree re the bus stop posters - just giving a link and telling you to read the website is no help at all to the likes of the elderly in particular.

Completely agree!!! Even if it missed out Weoley Castle and went Northfield > Shenley Lane > Barnes Hill then 23 route to City...

[Stu]

The map on the website shows that it would use, Wake Green Road.
https://nxbus.co.uk/files/NX-West-Midlands/misc/SouthBirminghamchangesMapforWeb.pdf

Thanks, that part of Wake Green Road is not currently served by any bus route, so there you have another potential set of complaints from residents unhappy that there WILL be buses serving their road!  :D

Wonder if any new stops will be put up along there?

[MasterPlan]

Well obviously we will adapt and get on with our lives but this forum is about discussing these things nonetheless, no? Besides, the adaping you speak of will most likely see many seek other travel arrangements than NX.

[Stu]

Well obviously we will adapt and get on with our lives but this forum is about discussing these things nonetheless, no?

I agree, but keep the discussions civil, and the debate lively, without resorting to attacking and insulting other members.

[MasterPlan]

I agree, but keep the discussions civil, and the debate lively, without resorting to attacking and insulting other members.

That's fair enough and I will.

Back to the topic. Does anybody know the exact reason why the X61 has changed back to the 61? I can't believe it 'failed' in all honesty.

[Justin Tyme]

I've just noticed on the City Centre map (https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/south-birmingham-service-changes/city-centre-bus-stop-information) that it mentions that "all buses towards Stratford Road now run along Digbeth High Street and Camp Hill (instead of Bradford Street)" yet this is not mentioned in the changes to the 2 & 3 or 5?

Also with regard to the 5, while it mentions that Springfield Road will no longer be served and will use Showell Green Road instead, it is not clear exactly what route it will take inbetween. Will it use Yardley Wood Road, then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road, or will it continue along Yardley Wood Road (alongside the 2 and 3), then follow the 11A/C along Swanshurst Lane?

Yes ...  I wouldn't be surprised about using Digbeth instead of Bradford Street, as from city the turn into Rea Street can take a while at busy times - not least because of the bus stop in Rea Street.

The South Birmingham map indicates that the 5 will use Yardley Wood Road then Wake Green Road to Cole Bank Road.

[John Stait]

Thanks, that part of Wake Green Road is not currently served by any bus route, so there you have another potential set of complaints from residents unhappy that there WILL be buses serving their road!  :D

Wonder if any new stops will be put up along there?

That part of Wake Green Road has never had a bus service, and there's some properties down there with a fairly hefty price tag.

And that's the first I've heard about 2/3/4 not serving Bradford Street too. Leaves that to the 50 only then.

[Mike K]

Before this turns into an argument, yes, we all have our opinions, and we might not agree with the changes being made, or with other peoples' opinions on the matter, but keep discussions civilised please.

All I'll add to the discussion is: anyone remember the East Birmingham/North Solihull changes? A lot of people were unhappy with the changes being made at the time, and a lot of angry complaints were made. But guess what happened? People adapted to the changes, and got on with their lives.

The same thing will happen with these South Birmingham changes, I see a lot of the same comments "why do they keep changing things?", and "its not fair that (insert street name) no longer has a direct link to (insert area)" etc etc. People can either whine, moan or whinge about the changes (probably the same people who never bothered to take part in the consultation last year, or don't even use the services anyway!) or analyse, plan, and adapt to the changes that are forthcoming.

I recall one operator modifying one of their routes (Claribels?) to accomodate a road that had lost a bus service following lots of noisy complaints. Yet that was withdrawn a few months later due to lack of use.

And yes, I know that not everybody has access to the internet, and the information at bus stops is not very helpful, but we all have a duty to spread the word and make sure that people get informed that would not ordinarily be aware until the changes actually happen.

SO if you could all keep this polite and civilised, and stop the sniping at each other, that would be appreciated.

Stu, to address your points in turn:

I fully agree with keeping things civil.

As regards your other points:
Of course people adapt to the changes, what other option do they have? Adapting can mean, for some people, using the car instead and paying through the nose for car parking, using Uber instead, driving to a station and taking a train from there, or catching 2 buses to work even though they only live 5 miles from Birmingham centre. But most people have no choice but to get to work somehow. They have to adapt but that doesn't mean they like it.

The people who have been most vocal in their displeasure at these changes on this forum (there are 3 or 4 of us), from what I gather all live around the Harborne / California / Weoley areas impacted by the changes and all use our local services. I suspect we all contributed to the consultation - I certainly did, not that any of my suggestions were implemented (I never expected they would) - but to suggest the people 'whining' didn't contribute or don't use the services impacted is possibly wide of the mark.

I personally am not that affected, a slight reduction in frequency in my local route at the times that I use it, a 25% reduction in the evenings and Sundays when I rarely use it, but I know people and have relatives in the vicinity who are far more severely impacted.

As regards other operators amending their routes to cover roads or areas no longer served by NX: NX have an almost compete monopoly in Birmingham, and lots of people have NX passes. It's not like most people can just decide to switch to a competitor's route, or (in the case of the South Birmingham review), that the alternative route is particularly helpful. To use an example in the South Birmingham review, it states that much of Simmons Drive will no longer be served by the 24, but instead Simmons Drive will be served by changes to the 10/10H/10S. Absolutely bugger all help to most people, these routes operate at a fraction of the frequency of the 24, or take an eternity to get to the city (10H).

And no, we don't all have a duty to spread the word about these changes. We are not disciples of NX, the company should be capable of spreading its own bad news through the appropriate media and on a timely basis.

[2206]

As regards your other points:
Of course people adapt to the changes, what other option do they have? Adapting can mean, for some people, using the car instead and paying through the nose for car parking, using Uber instead, driving to a station and taking a train from there, or catching 2 buses to work even though they only live 5 miles from Birmingham centre. But most people have no choice but to get to work somehow. They have to adapt but that doesn't mean they like it.

Most, more than likely won't own a car, hence why they are using the bus in the first place.
The bus is generally much cheaper than a taxi.
Plus not everyone will have a train station local to them.
So there will more than likely be many, who don't have an alternative method of transport, other than to adapt to the changes.

As regards other operators amending their routes to cover roads or areas no longer served by NX: NX have an almost compete monopoly in Birmingham, and lots of people have NX passes. It's not like most people can just decide to switch to a competitor's route, or (in the case of the South Birmingham review), that the alternative route is particularly helpful. To use an example in the South Birmingham review, it states that much of Simmons Drive will no longer be served by the 24, but instead Simmons Drive will be served by changes to the 10/10H/10S. Absolutely bugger all help to most people, these routes operate at a fraction of the frequency of the 24, or take an eternity to get to the city (10H).

The Claribels service was modified following complaints and would have been  a direct replacement to the 71 and 72 (and would have followed just about the same route).
Pretty frequent and direct, yet nobody used it and it was withdrawn a few months later due to a lack of use, so the people complaining in Marston Green/Chelmsley Wood/Kingshurst can't have needed a direct bus route to Solihull
that much.
The N Bus pass is only a few pounds more so they could just cancel the NX Pass and get a N Bus pass if they wanted to.
The East Birmingham Changes weren't to bad in my opinion and there were some complaints online and some links were lost.
Though, I remember hearing a few positive comments about the X12, one day I used it, not long after it started .

[sonic84]

With the X21 terminus at Woodcock Hill and the 63 moved to Crompton Road I wonder whether we will see the destination display showing Bangham Pit and Gannow again :-)

[MasterPlan]

With the X21 terminus at Woodcock Hill and the 63 moved to Crompton Road I wonder whether we will see the destination display showing Bangham Pit and Gannow again :-)

Was Woodcock Hill the old 21E terminus? I can't remember!

Also, I thought it was the 61 that displayed Gannow previously?

[Trident 4194]

Most, more than likely won't own a car, hence why they are using the bus in the first place.
The bus is generally much cheaper than a taxi.
Plus not everyone will have a train station local to them.
So there will more than likely be many, who don't have an alternative method of transport, other than to adapt to the changes.
The Claribels service was modified following complaints and would have been  a direct replacement to the 71 and 72 (and would have followed just about the same route).
Pretty frequent and direct, yet nobody used it and it was withdrawn a few months later due to a lack of use, so the people complaining in Marston Green/Chelmsley Wood/Kingshurst can't have needed a direct bus route to Solihull
that much.
The N Bus pass is only a few pounds more so they could just cancel the NX Pass and get a N Bus pass if they wanted to.
The East Birmingham Changes weren't to bad in my opinion and there were some complaints online and some links were lost.
Though, I remember hearing a few positive comments about the X12, one day I used it, not long after it started .

I disagree With this about the nbus. Why should these people have to pay a few £ extra each month? In that area of Birmingham nx have a monopoly so is it worth paying an extra few £ just to use one service. Furthermore did claribels market the route well enough?

[Mike K]

Was Woodcock Hill the old 21E terminus? I can't remember!

Also, I thought it was the 61 that displayed Gannow previously?

The old 21 Bangham Pit terminus was a short distance away at the junction of Moors Lane and Genners Lane, by Bartley Reservoir. The bus lay-by is still there - buses turned around using the small 'island' that is at the intersection of the two roads.