Council control v privatisation

[Tony]

Perhaps those promoting local government control of buses services again might like to read this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31725891

[Bob]

There are many good council run bus firms Tony, Nottingham,  Blackpool,  Lothian etc and some not as good.  There are also crap private sector operators too! And FYI Translink is not owned by local govt its a state owned firm. A special case.  WMPTE had an average 12yr bus life in 1986, west midlands travel/nx didnt/dont as private sector operator's ....

[Tony]

There are many good council run bus firms Tony, Nottingham,  Blackpool,  Lothian etc and some not as good.  There are also crap private sector operators too! And FYI Translink is not owned by local govt its a state owned firm. A special case.  WMPTE had an average 12yr bus life in 1986, west midlands travel/nx didnt/dont as private sector operator's ....

Oh yes Bob, Lothian, the perfect example of good local government management
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/lothian-buses-row-staff-kept-in-dark-1-3608497

and try googling several other stories about the top management at Lothian where they are all accusing each other of various things.

Blackpool, look at their fleet replacement programme for the last few years. Not very good compared to the private company in Blackpool - Stagecoach

[Trident 4194]

There are many good council run bus firms Tony, Nottingham,  Blackpool,  Lothian etc and some not as good.  There are also crap private sector operators too! And FYI Translink is not owned by local govt its a state owned firm. A special case.  WMPTE had an average 12yr bus life in 1986, west midlands travel/nx didnt/dont as private sector operator's ....

Oh yes Bob, Lothian, the perfect example of good local government management
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/lothian-buses-row-staff-kept-in-dark-1-3608497

and try googling several other stories about the top management at Lothian where they are all accusing each other of various things.

Blackpool, look at their fleet replacement programme for the last few years. Not very good compared to the private company in Blackpool - Stagecoach

Let's be honest Tony, you are going to go against someone if they say a companies good. Lothian are known for very good quality

[Tony]

There are many good council run bus firms Tony, Nottingham,  Blackpool,  Lothian etc and some not as good.  There are also crap private sector operators too! And FYI Translink is not owned by local govt its a state owned firm. A special case.  WMPTE had an average 12yr bus life in 1986, west midlands travel/nx didnt/dont as private sector operator's ....

Oh yes Bob, Lothian, the perfect example of good local government management
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/lothian-buses-row-staff-kept-in-dark-1-3608497

and try googling several other stories about the top management at Lothian where they are all accusing each other of various things.

Blackpool, look at their fleet replacement programme for the last few years. Not very good compared to the private company in Blackpool - Stagecoach

Let's be honest Tony, you are going to go against someone if they say a companies good. Lothian are known for very good quality

Yes public companies that waste over £1,000,000 of public money
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/ian-craig-froze-out-lothian-buses-directors-1-3640878

wonderful management!

[Bob]

And dont Nottingham have the best bus ridership in the uk? Look at arrivas fleet replacement/maintenance of buses until recently?  That wasnt good either!

[Bob]

And the Stagecoach that still runs step entrance olympians in Coventry. ..

[PM]

And the Stagecoach that still runs step entrance olympians in Coventry. ..

That's more than doubled bus use in Kent and Cambridge over the last 10 years?!

[Trident 4194]

There are many good council run bus firms Tony, Nottingham,  Blackpool,  Lothian etc and some not as good.  There are also crap private sector operators too! And FYI Translink is not owned by local govt its a state owned firm. A special case.  WMPTE had an average 12yr bus life in 1986, west midlands travel/nx didnt/dont as private sector operator's ....

Oh yes Bob, Lothian, the perfect example of good local government management
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/lothian-buses-row-staff-kept-in-dark-1-3608497

and try googling several other stories about the top management at Lothian where they are all accusing each other of various things.

Blackpool, look at their fleet replacement programme for the last few years. Not very good compared to the private company in Blackpool - Stagecoach

Let's be honest Tony, you are going to go against someone if they say a companies good. Lothian are known for very good quality

Yes public companies that waste over £1,000,000 of public money
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/ian-craig-froze-out-lothian-buses-directors-1-3640878

wonderful management!

NX waste money on washing machines, and plastic buses

[Stu]

People who want all bus services to be run and operated by local authorities just don't see the bigger picture, ie the burden falls on all council tax payers, even those who don't use bus services.

NX here in the West Midlands get a lot of criticism for making 'vast profits', but at least these profits are reinvested into buying new buses and investing in new technologies, and the profits are generated from revenues collected from paying customers. With all the cuts to local government budgets, would we see the same levels of investment? Probably not, and we probably wouldn't have the extensive route network we enjoy presently. Not without considerable increases in the amount of council tax we pay.

OK granted, there are a number of bus services that are subsidised with money from local authorities (in our area, this is Centro), but lets not forget the vast majority of bus services here are commercially operated, at no cost to the taxpayer.

There'll always be arguments for and against privatisation, but in some cases privatisation is actually beneficial, from the point of view of the ordinary tax-payer.

[Bob]

Why would services be cut if buses were operated by councils? Cuts dont come into it. Theyre operated at arms length, ie if say the 51 was operated by the public sector and still made money, how would that cost the taxpayers?  Thered be no shareholders to give money to! Are Nottingham cutting services and not investing in the fleet? No. The B###h who privatised the lot didnt care about private being better than public ( apart from how it increases competition,  it hasnt largely,  just created private monopolies), she thought anyone who travelled on buses was a failure in life....

[Tony]

Why would services be cut if buses were operated by councils? Cuts dont come into it. Theyre operated at arms length, ie if say the 51 was operated by the public sector and still made money, how would that cost the taxpayers?  Thered be no shareholders to give money to! Are Nottingham cutting services and not investing in the fleet? No. The B###h who privatised the lot didnt care about private being better than public ( apart from how it increases competition,  it hasnt largely,  just created private monopolies), she thought anyone who travelled on buses was a failure in life....

Nottingham, a Bus company part owned by the French Government!

[Bob]

83 percent by NCC though. ..

[Tony]

Why would services be cut if buses were operated by councils? Cuts dont come into it. Theyre operated at arms length, ie if say the 51 was operated by the public sector and still made money, how would that cost the taxpayers?  Thered be no shareholders to give money to! Are Nottingham cutting services and not investing in the fleet? No. The B###h who privatised the lot didnt care about private being better than public ( apart from how it increases competition,  it hasnt largely,  just created private monopolies), she thought anyone who travelled on buses was a failure in life....

The thing with full council ownership is yes the buses could be making a profit and doing well for the council, but then central government cuts some funding and does the council
a) Not buy new buses which are need to keep the fleet age profile reasonable, even though the money is actually coming from profits generated by the services themselves. Putting all the profits into general funds.
or
b) Sack some 'essential workers' which is going to get the councillors a bad press.

Decisions like that is why some council run bus companies ended up on a downward spiral 50 years ago.

[PM]

I don't get the obsession with councils etc owning everything. Ultimately, a great deal of operators have succeeded in keeping fares low, growing passenger numbers and investment and these are privately owned companies. I think the issue is a knee jerk reaction that shareholders shouldn't be making money out of bus passengers. I can understand why people say this but ultimately what they fail to realise is that profits aren't generated through high fares and minimal investment. Higher profits almost always depend on increasing patronage, sensible fares, good customer service and vehicles and all the elements of a good service. A bus service run using clapped out buses that are old and unreliable is often cited as the example of the deregulated and privatised bus market but long term operators like that don't last.

In short, private sector profit only ever follows a good, sound business model that's in passengers' and taxpayers' interests alike.

Look at the WCML fiasco-if any wants buses more controlled by politicians then they should consider it...  ::)

I may not be NXWM's biggest fan but I'd far rather live under a leaner, more efficient transport system than some of the wastage and inefficiencies that existed under direct PTE operated system...

I'd