NXWM Double Deck Fleet

[winston]

Once all the current E400's have been delivered to WB, NXWM's double fleet (assuming no more Spectra withdrawal's) will number 989, just shy of two thirds of the total fleet.

IIRC the proportion of double deckers hasn't been that high since TWM started withdrawing large chunks of the Metrobus fleet and replacing them with low floor single deckers.

[don]

Yes, I've noticed this as well Winston. Indeed except at Coventry (25 new B7RLEs), it seems almost all of the Mercedes have been replaced with double deckers, and probably some B10Ls as well.

I think it's great, nothing like a good fleet of double deckers - I recall having to travel, at the time, with two young children on Ipswich buses around the time they replaced Atlanteans with single deckers - standing was no pleasure especially with young children, and the worst of the worst were those appalling minibuses in Torbay - laden with elderly people carrying shopping, mostly standing - those Torbay routes are now covered by double decker Enviros, Tridents or in some cases Stagecoach Gold Enviros - many fully laden but everyone seated - how things change in two decades  :)

[winston]

Yes, I've noticed this as well Winston. Indeed except at Coventry (25 new B7RLEs), it seems almost all of the Mercedes have been replaced with double deckers, and probably some B10Ls as well.

I think it's great, nothing like a good fleet of double deckers - I recall having to travel, at the time, with two young children on Ipswich buses around the time they replaced Atlanteans with single deckers - standing was no pleasure especially with young children, and the worst of the worst were those appalling minibuses in Torbay - laden with elderly people carrying shopping, mostly standing - those Torbay routes are now covered by double decker Enviros, Tridents or in some cases Stagecoach Gold Enviros - many fully laden but everyone seated - how things change in two decades  :)

A large number of the B6LE's & Excels have also been replaced indirectly with double deckers through cascading existing single deckers.

Double deckers are the ultimate people mover over artics due to their size. The only downside is the top deck/back seat idiots they attract  ::)

Can you remember when the double fleet proportion was last so high, I'm guessing it might be around early 2000 ish? I remember the TWM fleet was stood at circa 1800 buses, where it is now circa 1520 buses

[don]

Once all the current E400's have been delivered to WB, NXWM's double fleet (assuming no more Spectra withdrawal's) will number 989, just shy of two thirds of the total fleet.

With the hybrids added I think it will be slightly more than 1000. Single deckers (including bendies) around 500 (assuming 60 Mercs remain and no B6LE or B10L). Yes Winston, this level of double deckers is almost back to the level in the early 2000s (presuming all 1800 vehicles were actually operational - as the fleet size at deregulation was about 1850, it seems likely the total included 'reserve fleet' buses to me. Realistically the double decker fleet would only increase by around 80 from the current level if remaining Mercs and bendies are replaced by them - unless there's an increase in overall fleet size.

[winston]

Once all the current E400's have been delivered to WB, NXWM's double fleet (assuming no more Spectra withdrawal's) will number 989, just shy of two thirds of the total fleet.

With the hybrids added I think it will be slightly more than 1000. Single deckers (including bendies) around 500 (assuming 60 Mercs remain and no B6LE or B10L). Yes Winston, this level of double deckers is almost back to the level in the early 2000s (presuming all 1800 vehicles were actually operational - as the fleet size at deregulation was about 1850, it seems likely the total included 'reserve fleet' buses to me. Realistically the double decker fleet would only increase by around 80 from the current level if remaining Mercs and bendies are replaced by them - unless there's an increase in overall fleet size.

Don,

The 989 double deckers is total double deck fleet which already includes the hybrids, it will remain just shy of a 1000 until we know the make-up of 2015's orders. I think the 1800 was operational fleet back then, but the reserve fleet was sizeable as well. I agree at max 80 more double deckers, as once the remaining Mercs are gone, the next oldest single deckers will be the 2006 (56 plate) B7RLE which aren't to be withdrawn anytime soon.

[andyr]

If double deckers are the ultimate people movers why are they only in the uk ? Every country and city in Europe see single deckers and bendi buses as being better. In my experience, and i spend a lot of time abroad they are correct.

[winston]

If double deckers are the ultimate people movers why are they only in the uk ? Every country and city in Europe see single deckers and bendi buses as being better. In my experience, and i spend a lot of time abroad they are correct.

Land & road space is at a premium in the UK compared with our European counterparts, which is why we all live on top of one another and struggle to get about.

Another thing European's find it acceptable to stand on buses, where we in the UK want a seat. Artics can ultimately shift the most people but the proportion of seated to standee's in a lot lower than a double decker. I understand artics are more expensive to buy compared with a double decker and will do fewer miles per gallon due to their weight.   

Hong Kong don't touch bendis either, they prefer tri-axle double deckers and the US & Canada have started taking increasing numbers of double deckers for work other than sightseeing

[dayvid]

If double deckers are the ultimate people movers why are they only in the uk ? Every country and city in Europe see single deckers and bendi buses as being better. In my experience, and i spend a lot of time abroad they are correct.

Possibly cost and capacity eg why pay 2 drivers on 2 single deckers when you can pay 1 driver 1 bus and near enough the same capacity? Not saying this is correct im just looking at it in a cost way.  In Europe they are miles ahead of us brits. Theyre not too shy to invest.

[Eric Shaw]

I have considered over many decades that the double decker is the best bus for Britain, with plenty of seats for those travelling longer distances, this being due to the lack of Rapid transit systems.
I have recently had to reconsider my opinion, since the conversion of one of my local routes to single deck operation, that is the 59, which is single deck, due to it interworking with the 58. I find that loading and unloading on the very busy Coventry Road section seems quicker than with double deckers and due to the nature of the route there are plenty of seats available once the route turns off the Coventry Road. Many of the passengers on the Coventry Road only travel for a few stops. I wonder if the 60 would work better with single deckers. Turning at the Cranes Park terminus may be a difficulty.
The theoretical maximum capacity of the B7RLE is 100, compared with about 90 for the Tridents, but I doubt if this could ever be achieved.

[Stevo]

In most of Europe the maximum height is 4 metres which is too low for an urban double decker - you can manage with a coach, like a Neoplan Skyliner, but you need more headroom for a bus. So those unfortunate continentals have long been used to standing. (And they've got used to hard seats if they can find one, which we'll have to get used to on the Metro as the new trams are off the peg ' Eurospec'.) Artics are OK but they weigh 18 tonnes or more for only fifty-odd seats, and they're 18 metres long compared to 11 metres for a decker, so you'd need more depots to keep them in.

[winston]

Once 6116/7/22 enter service at PN, baring anymore Spectra's being withdrawn over & above those already reported on the forum, I make that 1000 double deckers in the NXWM fleet, a first for a good number of years!

[Tony]

Once 6116/7/22 enter service at PN, baring anymore Spectra's being withdrawn over & above those already reported on the forum, I make that 1000 double deckers in the NXWM fleet, a first for a good number of years!

6118-21 should get to Pensnett over the weekend, so Monday will definitely be over 1000 baring a catastrophe

[winston]

6118-21 should get to Pensnett over the weekend, so Monday will definitely be over 1000 baring a catastrophe

It is a 1001 with 6123, but that's not likely to enter service yet.

The proportion of DD's hasn't been that high since the Metrobuses dominated the fleet IIRC

[Liverpool Street]

14'8" overall height on these omnicities, didn't realise that they was that high. No 14'6 bridge by sandwell and dudley train station for them then!

[Stevo]

I remember when the Ailsas worked regularly under that bridge, and the height in the driver's cab said 14/9" if I remember right. But they went under without trouble.