Hagley Road First Sprint Network.

[winston]

Not THIS bi-articulated horrorshow, surely?

http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2014/09/centro-ponders-jumbo-artics-for-sprint-scheme/

Extract from article above:

A Statutory Quality Partnership Scheme will be introduced on the Sprint corridor with operators expected to be invited to submit tenders for operation of Sprint services later this year.

I was under the impression that Sprint was part of the 3 year NX/Centro Quality partnership and Sprint would therefore by operated by NX as per the Metro?

[The Real 4778]

Hate those Streetcars used in York and places, with an absolute passion.

Presumably a circus troupe is expected to bid for the concession.

Eugh.

[monkeyjoe]

Who has a fighting chance of winning a tender vs NXWM that would be interesting if they didn't get it. Stagecoach or some European/ Asian operator lol

[Tony]

Who has a fighting chance of winning a tender vs NXWM that would be interesting if they didn't get it. Stagecoach or some European/ Asian operator lol

Anybody has if Centro are providing the vehicles as there would be no capital needed up front.

[winston]

Who has a fighting chance of winning a tender vs NXWM that would be interesting if they didn't get it. Stagecoach or some European/ Asian operator lol

Anybody has if Centro are providing the vehicles as there would be no capital needed up front.

But surely without NX operating Sprint, it would suffer the same problems that competing operators have trying to compete against NX's travelcard. If NX didn't win the first Sprint, they could just flood the B'Ham - Quniton corridor with high spec buses?

[the trainbasher]

Unless Winston NXWM and the sprint operator, along with centro, set up a quality partnership similar to the Merseyside 1/2

[winston]

Unless Winston NXWM and the sprint operator, along with centro, set up a quality partnership similar to the Merseyside 1/2

How would that work then? As i'm not familiar with the Merseyside setup

[the trainbasher]

Unless Winston NXWM and the sprint operator, along with centro, set up a quality partnership similar to the Merseyside 1/2

How would that work then? As i'm not familiar with the Merseyside setup

This page from stagecoach explains it better

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/Quality-Bus-Network.aspx

[JoNi]

Sprint appears to be flashy bendy buses that will be sharing bus lanes with existing services.

[andy]

Who has a fighting chance of winning a tender vs NXWM that would be interesting if they didn't get it. Stagecoach or some European/ Asian operator lol

Anybody has if Centro are providing the vehicles as there would be no capital needed up front.

But surely without NX operating Sprint, it would suffer the same problems that competing operators have trying to compete against NX's travelcard. If NX didn't win the first Sprint, they could just flood the B'Ham - Quniton corridor with high spec buses?

Perhaps Centro would finally be forced to address their neglect of the currently uncompetitive and draconian multi operator offering.

Am I the only person aghast at the prospect of NX automatically being handed yet another brick with which to expand their already far too extensive monoploy? Clearly.

[j789]

Who has a fighting chance of winning a tender vs NXWM that would be interesting if they didn't get it. Stagecoach or some European/ Asian operator lol

Anybody has if Centro are providing the vehicles as there would be no capital needed up front.

But surely without NX operating Sprint, it would suffer the same problems that competing operators have trying to compete against NX's travelcard. If NX didn't win the first Sprint, they could just flood the B'Ham - Quniton corridor with high spec buses?

Perhaps Centro would finally be forced to address their neglect of the currently uncompetitive and draconian multi operator offering.

Am I the only person aghast at the prospect of NX automatically being handed yet another brick with which to expand their already far too extensive monoploy? Clearly.

NXWM are far from perfect but compared to the other companies in the region are much better. No other company including First, Arriva, Diamond, Stagecoach etc would offer a better service than currently (and the number of terrible cowboys on the roads actually suggest having just 1 company running everything would be better for generating growth in bus travel as clapped out Darts are not a good advertisement just as Nationals weren't in the 1990s and look what happened to most of the operators who came on the scene then))and having multi operators is not a positive.
Yes some key routes would get more investment with competition but you can bet your bottom dollar that many other less profile routes would suffer and end up either having to be subsidised (and costing the tax payer more) or being scrapped altogether. I have worked in the industry for a number of years and not once have I seen a better 'REALISTIC' alternative for the West Mids (ie not a dream world of Hybrids on every route and 50p fares).
I think Centro are lucky to have NXWM and clearly the relationship does work otherwise it wouldn't have lasted almost 30 years.

[andy]

NXWM are far from perfect but compared to the other companies in the region are much better.

Erm.....why?

And is that a good reason to create a permanent monopoly? And exclude new entrants?

I would suggest that the relationship between Centro and NX has only lasted so long due to Centro being one of the least progressive and most stagnant PTE's in the country with low standards and aspirations.

[j789]

NXWM are far from perfect but compared to the other companies in the region are much better.

Erm.....why?

And is that a good reason to create a permanent monopoly? And exclude new entrants?

I would suggest that the relationship between Centro and NX has only lasted so long due to Centro being one of the least progressive and most stagnant PTE's in the country with low standards and aspirations.

But compared to all the other PTE areas in the country - has passenger decline in the West Mids been worse than those areas. Broadly it is similar - worse in some, better in others so I disagree with your criticism. The problems facing bus travel cannot be solved through competition, it just cannot work in the long term. Partnership perhaps but not competition.

[Stu]

Birmingham Central would seem the most logical to house Sprint bendi's with it's large open plan parking areas. I'm still not convinced that NX wont operate Sprint, it would be daft to have a different operator running Sprint when NX run the Metro & the three quarters of all the buses in the region. Sprint needs to compliment existing Hagley Rd services by attracting new passengers, not by simply taking them off the buses & the frequency of those is cut.

I disagree slightly with you there; I watched an interesting video about BRT in Bogota, Columbia (which they've had for about 10 years now!) a while back; their system has 'regular' buses acting as shuttles which 'feed' the BRT routes, ie you get a bus to the BRT interchange and then change onto the BRT bus to your destination. The BRT buses are very frequent, so are 'turn-up-and-go'.

So for Sprint to actually be successful here, it would need to mostly replace the current Hagley Road services, and be easy enough for bus passengers to transfer from connecting bus services. For example say, the current 9 service would operate frequently as it does now between Stourbridge and Quinton, with maybe infrequent journeys continuing to the City Centre, but the majority of passengers would be transferring to/from the Sprint service. Likewise for a service such as the 120, which would operate between Dudley and Bearwood only as a 'feeder service', where passengers can transfer to/from the Sprint service at Bearwood.

The positives from this to be gained are that these 'local' services can be more reliable, as they no longer have to travel in and out of the city centre, as the Sprint BRT buses will handle this part of the journey. But it will all hinge on accessibility and integration, the main one being able to use bus passes and day tickets, so as not to increase the cost of using the new network. Otherwise, it will just end up as a novelty white elephant, that hardly anyone will use.

[winston]

Birmingham Central would seem the most logical to house Sprint bendi's with it's large open plan parking areas. I'm still not convinced that NX wont operate Sprint, it would be daft to have a different operator running Sprint when NX run the Metro & the three quarters of all the buses in the region. Sprint needs to compliment existing Hagley Rd services by attracting new passengers, not by simply taking them off the buses & the frequency of those is cut.

I disagree slightly with you there; I watched an interesting video about BRT in Bogota, Columbia (which they've had for about 10 years now!) a while back; their system has 'regular' buses acting as shuttles which 'feed' the BRT routes, ie you get a bus to the BRT interchange and then change onto the BRT bus to your destination. The BRT buses are very frequent, so are 'turn-up-and-go'.

So for Sprint to actually be successful here, it would need to mostly replace the current Hagley Road services, and be easy enough for bus passengers to transfer from connecting bus services. For example say, the current 9 service would operate frequently as it does now between Stourbridge and Quinton, with maybe infrequent journeys continuing to the City Centre, but the majority of passengers would be transferring to/from the Sprint service. Likewise for a service such as the 120, which would operate between Dudley and Bearwood only as a 'feeder service', where passengers can transfer to/from the Sprint service at Bearwood.

The positives from this to be gained are that these 'local' services can be more reliable, as they no longer have to travel in and out of the city centre, as the Sprint BRT buses will handle this part of the journey. But it will all hinge on accessibility and integration, the main one being able to use bus passes and day tickets, so as not to increase the cost of using the new network. Otherwise, it will just end up as a novelty white elephant, that hardly anyone will use.

Thanks for that Stu, for that to work as you have seen in Bogota, Columbia, NXWM would need to be awarded the rights to operate Sprint as per the Metro and NXWM's network needs to be integrated to providing feeder services to Sprint as you suggest. Centro do not have the right legally for Sprint to take over the Quinton - B'ham section of the Hagley Road corridor and tell NXWM to alter it's service without  NXWM being involved in the project. Otherwise when Sprint is launched, the way you see if working from previous models NXWM are going to potentially loose a large chunk of revenue from the lucrative Hagley Road services, Pensnett Garage would find itself with approx 15-20 buses redundant along with all the drivers and a massive drop in garage Pvr NX pass holders would be barred from using Sprint and no doubt NX pass holders would be barred from using Sprint. All of which I can't see happening as Sprint would be another White Elephant  Back when the Metro was launched the Timesaver 979 was scrapped & the 79 cut short to WB, however the Soho Rd services are busier than ever with the Metro running a parallel, this is despite NX operating both.

I know some say NX have a monopoly on routes & with their travelcard in the West Midlands, and that another bus group should operate Sprint. But I don't think that there is anyone that can argue that NX isn't invested heavily over the past 3 years in the West Midlands with new buses & refurbishing it's existing fleet and is continuing to do so with the ADL 5 year deal. Once the next 175 new buses join during 2015, the oldest buses in the fleet will be the Y-reg Tridents 4125 onwards which will be 14 years old, I expect most if not all of the Presidents will have left the fleet once that lot arrive. Ultimately NXWM's travelcard is so popular because if significantly cheaper than anything NWM can offer and covers most routes/areas anyway. As long as Centro keep NX on their toes with the Quality Partnerships & threat of bring other operators in, I think Sprint should be integrated in to NXWM bus network & with The Metro even if NX only run Sprint on an management contract with Centro/NWM setting the pricing structyure etc