Bus Accidents/Incidents.

[PM]

Heaters locked on by engineers? ;)

[Liverpool Street]

Heaters locked on by engineers? ;)

[Tony]

I don't know of a single fire caused by hot weather, a bus 'overheating' is just the water in the coolant getting above 100 degrees and water is fairly difficult to set on fire. There are three main basic causes of fires each with lots of its own sub causes

1) Electrical fault. This can be anything from faulty wiring, worn wiring, through to something powered by electricity breaking, for example starter motor or alternator jamming on

2) Oil on hot metal, normally caused by a leak of one of the oils (fuel/lubricating/haudraulic) landing on something very hot like the turbocharger

3) Idiotic human beings, this includes arson attacks and drivers not stopping when warning lights are telling them something is wrong, either off their own will or being told to by someone above them

[Liverpool Street]

And in addition to what @Tony has said, the likelihood of each happening are as follows:

1) Uncommon, but does happen. Usually on badly maintained vehicles, with exposed wires which could be direct contact with ignitable sources.

2) Rare, how often does some of the pipes carrying said oil actually rupture? They're damn thick pipes. However, sewer pipes are seriously thick and they do burst. You get the idea.

3) Most likely cause. "STOP" on the dashboard and then doing the opposite, get it? Numerous buses have met its fate due to this. A vehicle is designed to do everything it can to NOT cause damage to itself.

[Liverpool Street]

What I should add in addition is that these are in general from the whole industry and not for NX. And I speak from my experience in this industry from many years in the past.

[PM]

Do buzzers sounding on darts usually indicate overheating or do they indicate a variety of faults/issues?

Also, is locking the heaters on a good way to prevent overheating ie does it work? Obviously it's not good for passengers though

[Tony]

Do buzzers sounding on darts usually indicate overheating or do they indicate a variety of faults/issues?

Also, is locking the heaters on a good way to prevent overheating ie does it work? Obviously it's not good for passengers though

Most vehicles have some sort of intermittent warning noise for less important things like low water levels, and a consistant noise for anything that the bus reckons you should not drive, like low air pressure risk of fire etc.

As for having heaters/demisters on, yes it will help reduce overheating as you are taking heat out of the coolant system. Something not recommended nowadays, but used to work enough to get an overheating bus back to garage was to rev the engine hard with the heaters full on, this would normally take more heat out, and increase the fan speed enough to cool the water just enough to get the temperature down enough to bring it back to garage. It is not something NX recommend now, and parking up and letting it cool down naturally is more normal

[PM]

Do buzzers sounding on darts usually indicate overheating or do they indicate a variety of faults/issues?

Also, is locking the heaters on a good way to prevent overheating ie does it work? Obviously it's not good for passengers though

Most vehicles have some sort of intermittent warning noise for less important things like low water levels, and a consistant noise for anything that the bus reckons you should not drive, like low air pressure risk of fire etc.

As for having heaters/demisters on, yes it will help reduce overheating as you are taking heat out of the coolant system. Something not recommended nowadays, but used to work enough to get an overheating bus back to garage was to rev the engine hard with the heaters full on, this would normally take more heat out, and increase the fan speed enough to cool the water just enough to get the temperature down enough to bring it back to garage. It is not something NX recommend now, and parking up and letting it cool down naturally is more normal

Thanks for the info there Tony :)

Arriva North East still seem to do that-saw a daf/lowlander doing it the other day.

Out of interest, why would this no longer be recommended?

[Tony]

Do buzzers sounding on darts usually indicate overheating or do they indicate a variety of faults/issues?

Also, is locking the heaters on a good way to prevent overheating ie does it work? Obviously it's not good for passengers though

Most vehicles have some sort of intermittent warning noise for less important things like low water levels, and a consistant noise for anything that the bus reckons you should not drive, like low air pressure risk of fire etc.

As for having heaters/demisters on, yes it will help reduce overheating as you are taking heat out of the coolant system. Something not recommended nowadays, but used to work enough to get an overheating bus back to garage was to rev the engine hard with the heaters full on, this would normally take more heat out, and increase the fan speed enough to cool the water just enough to get the temperature down enough to bring it back to garage. It is not something NX recommend now, and parking up and letting it cool down naturally is more normal

Thanks for the info there Tony :)

Arriva North East still seem to do that-saw a daf/lowlander doing it the other day.

Out of interest, why would this no longer be recommended?

A vehicle that has overheated once, will normally overheat again fairly quickly. Just because you have got the temperature down to 99degrees hasn't cured the fault, quite often something as simple as a blocked radiator grill. It is not normally worth the risk of damage by having an engine at maximum revs for a long time just to get  half a mile down the road. Letting the temperature cool down much further will normally allow you to get a bus back to garage safely

[Trident 4609]

Personally I think all of these recent fires have been due to the current heat spell we're having!

No, if that was the case there would be no buses left in hot countries! Obviously the buses haven't been prepared properly for the hot weather!

That's total bollocks. They leave the garage every morning with a full tank of Coolant, if a hydraulic pipe burst and the fluid hit directly onto the engine/gearbox block, then you'd expect fires. Just as likely to happen in the coolness of November then in the heat of June.

So tell me, how do you "prepare" a bus for hot weather? Drive with the engine door open? Hmm....

That the way Travel Express tend to do it lol   :P

[andy]

Do buzzers sounding on darts usually indicate overheating or do they indicate a variety of faults/issues?

Also, is locking the heaters on a good way to prevent overheating ie does it work? Obviously it's not good for passengers though

Most vehicles have some sort of intermittent warning noise for less important things like low water levels, and a consistant noise for anything that the bus reckons you should not drive, like low air pressure risk of fire etc.

As for having heaters/demisters on, yes it will help reduce overheating as you are taking heat out of the coolant system. Something not recommended nowadays, but used to work enough to get an overheating bus back to garage was to rev the engine hard with the heaters full on, this would normally take more heat out, and increase the fan speed enough to cool the water just enough to get the temperature down enough to bring it back to garage. It is not something NX recommend now, and parking up and letting it cool down naturally is more normal

Thanks for the info there Tony :)

Arriva North East still seem to do that-saw a daf/lowlander doing it the other day.

Out of interest, why would this no longer be recommended?

A vehicle that has overheated once, will normally overheat again fairly quickly. Just because you have got the temperature down to 99degrees hasn't cured the fault, quite often something as simple as a blocked radiator grill. It is not normally worth the risk of damage by having an engine at maximum revs for a long time just to get  half a mile down the road. Letting the temperature cool down much further will normally allow you to get a bus back to garage safely

Locking the heaters on was the only way to defeat 'ding ding ding' on our B6's and unusually, it would diepel the problem for a good hour. The main thing that used to overheat them was the fact they were being permanently thrashed due to being so horrifically underpowered.

I do find it interesting that vehicle fires appear to me more common these days, and generally more catastophic too. Going back to the oil leak scenario, if I think back to the Olympians, Nationals, Tigers or Lynxes that I used to drive fequently, they were regularly leaking some fluid or other but rarely did it seem to result in an emergency. Do we think that engine compartments are perhaps a little more crowded these days? Is there more capacity for leaking fluid to find its way onto something hot in a modern engine? And do modern egines simply run a lot hotter? The constant roaring and requirement for cooling fans to be on would suggest maybe they do.

I would certainly back up the call for drivers to follow instructions from the dash. I for one required no further invitation to switch off and call base if I had a buzzer screaming at me if I didn't think I could get it back to garage. But then with the Workshop Manager I had at the time, wo betide anybody who didn't.

[mranon]

as both driving and working on buses, i do wish it was enforced/ordered that buses be fitted with gauges. a driver can monitor what they see. a lot of todays buses ie darts tridents etc do not have a temperature gauge which is silly. a red warning light in my opinion is too late

[4006]

Personally I think all of these recent fires have been due to the current heat spell we're having!

Except of course any Arriva fire victims. They would naturally be down to poor maintenance while everybody else's would be pure flooks.

Strangely enough, I can't recall their last one? I'm sure somebody will fill us in though.

Just for you Tony....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/retroscania/14314503699/

They are good vehicles..this one dates back 'Donkeys Years'

I have very little mechanical knowledge of buses (apart from most things that supposed to work don't or work inefficiently or to a 'satisfactory' standard) but would it not be a good idea to install a safety cut off valve in the engine bay similar to a cut off valve fitted in the boiler rooms of most public & industrial premises? These devises detect excessive heat, smoke, fumes etc and instantly cut the whole system off. If some type of device like this was fitted surely it would reduce engine fires?
Another idea...smoke alarms...fit them in the saloons, passengers and drivers will be alerted sooner to an arson attack and it would be a deterrent to arsonists knowing an alarm will go off the minute they get bored and decide to set light to the bus?
Surely this would save more money and increase safety than branding and naming every new bus to enter the fleet and installing DMASS on every vehicle (some of which are defective or inaccurate) and even though they might highlight driver errors they do not save costs or improve driver performance (some drivers don't even know what it is!!)

Just a suggestion

(maybe that should be my new signature??)

[Cheese]

Not a fire this time, but another deroofing, this time it's an Ausden Clark Scania East Lancs Cityzen, looks like an N-OTY ex Northumbria example.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-27993664

[BU07 LGO]

Another arson attack at Exeter bus station, 2 years after the last.

Destroyed two scania enviro 400's

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8615623@N04/14241184789/in/photolist-nGrN5M-fqoERt-jVfQ4t-hVaQDT-exWnmk-kcenZS-fGbUio-fFUjDi-fqCVbG-e9f5Eh-fh58Kp-m1wyMD-ebVMif-e9f6mb-foMvk7-kS22ve-m1xepX-fXwhmG-e97JED-e6ok5W-fqEBdY-nYFtqo-fqqpg2-fqEBNW-jVfHjg-my39KT-kcbTfv-e9o6Y4-e3muEV-nYxJ1b-k7xZtH-e3mxYn-ns9Jxf-eNE4BW-k7w2Gz-fMbqRD-ggvkUg-niKW1C-iEbSQD-gR7jp3-jDLHJG-i76GkS-o1yFtc-jDJAxc-e4iy9h-e3moAz-e97Hqr-eGSUmz-nVVEXD-h2Fxqu