First Bus - Wyvern

[PM]

No worries at all, it's Midlandred.net where I've seen most of the above info posted. The seats are the same, just recovered out of the red into the purple moquette, not like the VX54 Tridents/Enviros etc arrived in but the same as what the LN51 batch were refurbed into back in 2013. Seatbelts appear to be staying, handrails (presumably the same ones) are into Barbie spec Turqoise out of the yellow they were delivered in.

I'm not sure on Tridents, the VX54 ones are nice, LN51 ones aren't bad, the LLC's I can't stand and tellingly Rotala couldn't wait to be shot of the ones they acquired. 32852/4 both look pretty battered. Even the VX54's don't seem on a par with 32645 that Worcester had on loan. Even 32067 (with seats nicely recovered obviously fairly recently into Barbie moquette) seemed a good runner but rattles around the destination screen seemed far too noticeable. I guess it is 14 years old though! Would be nice to see Worcester get shot of 32852 as well, once the StreetLites arrive and with all the ex Hereford tridents, VX54 ones staying, plus the StreetDecks, they should be able to get rid of it. It's the StreetLite MAX's I'm looking forward to seeing arrive, they're nice buses with kerb appeal as well. It's just interesting that Potteries repainted 53044 but they don't seem able to repaint/refurb any of the existing fleet, I can't recall anything not new to fleet being done for a while. Bizarrely though Potteries prioritised painting old Olympians, refurbing 38125 to artificially inflate book value, they repainted old darts and Scanias as well. Priority should have been putting the 04/5 stock built Scanias into more standard First Group spec trim as per Worcester Centros. I just think it's odd they aren't seemingly painting the fleet, some of the Worcester E300's (nice though they are) haven't seen the paintbrush a great deal since new, 67601 at the back around the destination blind looks to have flakey paint, one has rusty marks towards the back as well. It's an upgrade over current non DDA stock but it'll be interesting to see if they get repainted/refurbed once the fleet's settled down post DDA. It's also worrying that post January, virtually all of the Potteries fleet will be of a similar age range, ie 2002-2006. 2002 B7L's which never seem great, 2005 B7RLE's and B7TL's, 2004-6 Scania integrals, few 2002/3 Solos and the odd newer one admittedly, 2003-5 darts, just some slightly newer Geminis and nearly new StreetLites to break up the fleet. To compound it, a batch of 2003-5 E300's is going in, 3 years time or so and they'll start to have a lot of stock nearing the end of its natural working life.

[Ashley 60171]

No worries at all, it's Midlandred.net where I've seen most of the above info posted. The seats are the same, just recovered out of the red into the purple moquette, not like the VX54 Tridents/Enviros etc arrived in but the same as what the LN51 batch were refurbed into back in 2013. Seatbelts appear to be staying, handrails (presumably the same ones) are into Barbie spec Turqoise out of the yellow they were delivered in.

I'm not sure on Tridents, the VX54 ones are nice, LN51 ones aren't bad, the LLC's I can't stand and tellingly Rotala couldn't wait to be shot of the ones they acquired. 32852/4 both look pretty battered. Even the VX54's don't seem on a par with 32645 that Worcester had on loan. Even 32067 (with seats nicely recovered obviously fairly recently into Barbie moquette) seemed a good runner but rattles around the destination screen seemed far too noticeable. I guess it is 14 years old though! Would be nice to see Worcester get shot of 32852 as well, once the StreetLites arrive and with all the ex Hereford tridents, VX54 ones staying, plus the StreetDecks, they should be able to get rid of it. It's the StreetLite MAX's I'm looking forward to seeing arrive, they're nice buses with kerb appeal as well. It's just interesting that Potteries repainted 53044 but they don't seem able to repaint/refurb any of the existing fleet, I can't recall anything not new to fleet being done for a while. Bizarrely though Potteries prioritised painting old Olympians, refurbing 38125 to artificially inflate book value, they repainted old darts and Scanias as well. Priority should have been putting the 04/5 stock built Scanias into more standard First Group spec trim as per Worcester Centros. I just think it's odd they aren't seemingly painting the fleet, some of the Worcester E300's (nice though they are) haven't seen the paintbrush a great deal since new, 67601 at the back around the destination blind looks to have flakey paint, one has rusty marks towards the back as well. It's an upgrade over current non DDA stock but it'll be interesting to see if they get repainted/refurbed once the fleet's settled down post DDA. It's also worrying that post January, virtually all of the Potteries fleet will be of a similar age range, ie 2002-2006. 2002 B7L's which never seem great, 2005 B7RLE's and B7TL's, 2004-6 Scania integrals, few 2002/3 Solos and the odd newer one admittedly, 2003-5 darts, just some slightly newer Geminis and nearly new StreetLites to break up the fleet. To compound it, a batch of 2003-5 E300's is going in, 3 years time or so and they'll start to have a lot of stock nearing the end of its natural working life.

It is a shame that Potteries haven't made much of an effort with their newest stock. 38125 was their most hated bus when it was at Newcastle but hey ho. The lack of effort is somewhat apparent on for example 32056 where they've used primary school paint to cover up some graffiti from its Leicester days.

It would be nice to see the E300's at both garages get some attention. I also noticed 67601's flakey paintwork. But some brand new stock for both areas (FMR and PMT) most profitable routes wouldn't go a miss but at least Potteries will have got rid of their non DDA single deck stock before the deadline. On a personal note, I've enjoyed the last 2 and a half years on those Scania's.

The LN51 reg Tridents are definitely smart. They come with mixed reviews. I think 2 of the WR trio are required for me so I will comment in the future.

Maybe 2016 or 2017 will bring more investment this way.

[PM]

It is a shame that Potteries haven't made much of an effort with their newest stock. 38125 was their most hated bus when it was at Newcastle but hey ho. The lack of effort is somewhat apparent on for example 32056 where they've used primary school paint to cover up some graffiti from its Leicester days.

It would be nice to see the E300's at both garages get some attention. I also noticed 67601's flakey paintwork. But some brand new stock for both areas (FMR and PMT) most profitable routes wouldn't go a miss but at least Potteries will have got rid of their non DDA single deck stock before the deadline. On a personal note, I've enjoyed the last 2 and a half years on those Scania's.

The LN51 reg Tridents are definitely smart. They come with mixed reviews. I think 2 of the WR trio are required for me so I will comment in the future.

Maybe 2016 or 2017 will bring more investment this way.

I think upgrading a service like the 10 could surely pay off in terms of growing patronage, maybe ensure deckers are always on the 32 as well. It's interesting how D and G have increased their presence in the Potteries area nicely, First do need to invest there, even if not the most profitable area. I always thought 38125 was a very nice bus indeed, I've always had a soft spot for Volvo CityBuses though! I think their general marketing and promotion/website etc is pretty good. The Scanias you mention probably weren't bad buses when new and aren't uncomfortable now, but they're pretty old and they've done the rounds of operations, some coming pretty battered looking when Northampton shut down. I've always preferred B10BLE's but I'm a fan of E300's so will be sure to go up more regularly when they're in service. Even the standard spec OmniCity's aren't bad although I've never been a massive fan of that type. It's interesting Worcester and Leicester appear to be getting the lion's share of the investment, it'll be interesting to see next year what Leicester's 29 StreetDecks cascade out, potentially some more Geminis to the Potteries? They look incredibly smart inside and out, no-one would guess some are over 10 years old now! Issue with Worcester's LN51 tridents is the rock hard seats! DDA deadline is good in a sense as it has forced operators to invest to meet the deadline, on a personal note, I reckon Worcester and Leicester are shaping up to be very smart operations, Potteries seems a bit left behind after the enthusiasm of the 2014 relaunch, investment and repaint of Cherry Lines etc. Quite why non DDA solos were repainted and branded at Potteries for short-lived services confuses me though!

[Ashley 60171]

I think upgrading a service like the 10 could surely pay off in terms of growing patronage, maybe ensure deckers are always on the 32 as well. It's interesting how D and G have increased their presence in the Potteries area nicely, First do need to invest there, even if not the most profitable area. I always thought 38125 was a very nice bus indeed, I've always had a soft spot for Volvo CityBuses though! I think their general marketing and promotion/website etc is pretty good. The Scanias you mention probably weren't bad buses when new and aren't uncomfortable now, but they're pretty old and they've done the rounds of operations, some coming pretty battered looking when Northampton shut down. I've always preferred B10BLE's but I'm a fan of E300's so will be sure to go up more regularly when they're in service. Even the standard spec OmniCity's aren't bad although I've never been a massive fan of that type. It's interesting Worcester and Leicester appear to be getting the lion's share of the investment, it'll be interesting to see next year what Leicester's 29 StreetDecks cascade out, potentially some more Geminis to the Potteries? They look incredibly smart inside and out, no-one would guess some are over 10 years old now! Issue with Worcester's LN51 tridents is the rock hard seats! DDA deadline is good in a sense as it has forced operators to invest to meet the deadline, on a personal note, I reckon Worcester and Leicester are shaping up to be very smart operations, Potteries seems a bit left behind after the enthusiasm of the 2014 relaunch, investment and repaint of Cherry Lines etc. Quite why non DDA solos were repainted and branded at Potteries for short-lived services confuses me though!

I also think that Citybuses are great. I believe Potteries drivers weren't keen which is why it was very rarely out. The expansion of D&G has hit First on some of the busier parts of the network and areas where First have cutback, however if D&G were to try competing on a busier service it would hit First where it hurts. I'm not doing a Bob of them not by any means but as in my previous comment I hope good things are on the cards.

There's a saying in some areas "oh that's typical First logic". Which may explain the repaints of the Solo's last year for them to be scrapped now apart from 50296 which is clinging on.

Over in Leicester, I think the 13 Streetlites will see off all of the ALX400's to the South West as speculated a few months ago. Next years Streetdecks I think will displace what's left of the Gemini's and E400's possibly a handful of B7L's but that's just my theory.

[PM]

I also think that Citybuses are great. I believe Potteries drivers weren't keen which is why it was very rarely out. The expansion of D&G has hit First on some of the busier parts of the network and areas where First have cutback, however if D&G were to try competing on a busier service it would hit First where it hurts. I'm not doing a Bob of them not by any means but as in my previous comment I hope good things are on the cards.

There's a saying in some areas "oh that's typical First logic". Which may explain the repaints of the Solo's last year for them to be scrapped now apart from 50296 which is clinging on.

Over in Leicester, I think the 13 Streetlites will see off all of the ALX400's to the South West as speculated a few months ago. Next years Streetdecks I think will displace what's left of the Gemini's and E400's possibly a handful of B7L's but that's just my theory.

In terms of this year's orders, as I've kind of lost track, Worcester has had its 4 StreetLites, Leicester its 5, Worcester is due 9 StreetLite MAX's, some of which are said to be nearly ready for delivery. How many StreetLites is Leicester due, they gained 4 off the original Worcester allocation in exchange for the StreetLites, so are they now up to 13?

Either way, we know Potteries are gaining several Worcester E300's, hard to know exactly how many and which ones. It was suggested early VX53's were staying put but 67601 seems to be the first transfer up. It seems likely Bristol will want to gain more deckers, perhaps E400's next year when Leicester gets StreetDecks, it makes sense to cascade out their next newest deckers, aside from the fact Bristol already run them. I guess this year with StreetDecks and StreetLites into Leicester some Geminis or B7RLEs may also cascade into Potteries, I'm not sure how many buses they need to meet DDA now?

[winston]

In terms of this year's orders, as I've kind of lost track, Worcester has had its 4 StreetLites, Leicester its 5, Worcester is due 9 StreetLite MAX's, some of which are said to be nearly ready for delivery. How many StreetLites is Leicester due, they gained 4 off the original Worcester allocation in exchange for the StreetLites, so are they now up to 13?

Either way, we know Potteries are gaining several Worcester E300's, hard to know exactly how many and which ones. It was suggested early VX53's were staying put but 67601 seems to be the first transfer up. It seems likely Bristol will want to gain more deckers, perhaps E400's next year when Leicester gets StreetDecks, it makes sense to cascade out their next newest deckers, aside from the fact Bristol already run them. I guess this year with StreetDecks and StreetLites into Leicester some Geminis or B7RLEs may also cascade into Potteries, I'm not sure how many buses they need to meet DDA now?

I believe Potteries are having E300's 67601-4 & 67631-41 (15)

[PM]

I believe Potteries are having E300's 67601-4 & 67631-41 (15)

Ironically, all of Worcester's original ones are staying, these are new to Hereford and Redditch ones going, based on quick fleetlist look, could be wrong!

[Ashley 60171]

In terms of this year's orders, as I've kind of lost track, Worcester has had its 4 StreetLites, Leicester its 5, Worcester is due 9 StreetLite MAX's, some of which are said to be nearly ready for delivery. How many StreetLites is Leicester due, they gained 4 off the original Worcester allocation in exchange for the StreetLites, so are they now up to 13?

Either way, we know Potteries are gaining several Worcester E300's, hard to know exactly how many and which ones. It was suggested early VX53's were staying put but 67601 seems to be the first transfer up. It seems likely Bristol will want to gain more deckers, perhaps E400's next year when Leicester gets StreetDecks, it makes sense to cascade out their next newest deckers, aside from the fact Bristol already run them. I guess this year with StreetDecks and StreetLites into Leicester some Geminis or B7RLEs may also cascade into Potteries, I'm not sure how many buses they need to meet DDA now?

After the Scanias, Potteries non DDA vehicles are 32053-57 which could be done next year. Also, 40009, 40367, 40375 and 50296.

[barry619]

The two ex-Wyvern Y-AUY Darts are not DDA compliant either. There are either 17 or 18 non-DDA single-deckers remaining in use at Potteries, 15 E300s due from Worcester and only a month or so (if holidays and so on over Christmas are taken account of) to deal with the problem - despite First having had 15 years' warning of it. *If* the suggestion of the two Tridents from Worcester is correct this may be as temporary cover during early 2016, although I will believe it when I see it.

That said, more double-deckers are needed as a matter of urgency in the Potteries as complaints of people being left behind on services to and from Keele University are commonplace. First placed themselves in the absurd situation of only being able to run half of the services to Keele with 'deckers by combing it with the route to Crewe, which passes under a low bridge, but there is nothing stopping them running every other journey with double-deckers - which cannot happen at the moment as there are not enough of them. Sadly such things are not untypical of how Potteries operates.

It has been suggested that the five W-registered B7TLs which came from Leicester will not be modified and will instead be disposed of next year, which makes sense as they are hardly in the first flush of youth and there will be no shortage of 'deckers in the Midlands when Leicester's 29 StreetDecks are delivered.

[winston]

The two ex-Wyvern Y-AUY Darts are not DDA compliant either. There are either 17 or 18 non-DDA single-deckers remaining in use at Potteries, 15 E300s due from Worcester and only a month or so (if holidays and so on over Christmas are taken account of) to deal with the problem - despite First having had 15 years' warning of it. *If* the suggestion of the two Tridents from Worcester is correct this may be as temporary cover during early 2016, although I will believe it when I see it.

That said, more double-deckers are needed as a matter of urgency in the Potteries as complaints of people being left behind on services to and from Keele University are commonplace. First placed themselves in the absurd situation of only being able to run half of the services to Keele with 'deckers by combing it with the route to Crewe, which passes under a low bridge, but there is nothing stopping them running every other journey with double-deckers - which cannot happen at the moment as there are not enough of them. Sadly such things are not untypical of how Potteries operates.

It has been suggested that the five W-registered B7TLs which came from Leicester will not be modified and will instead be disposed of next year, which makes sense as they are hardly in the first flush of youth and there will be no shortage of 'deckers in the Midlands when Leicester's 29 StreetDecks are delivered.

@barry619 First have only just repainted the W-reg B7TL/ALX400's at Bath in allover purple for Uni routes and masked their age with private plates. More deckers are needed at a few First subsidiaries, so I can't see them disposing of B7TL's just yet. Maybe  it's more of a case that the B7TL's will not be modified by Potteries but will be disposed of to Bristol to join the rest of the batch & brought up to DDA there?

[Cheese]

From January the 3 is being split, so the 25 will return from Hanley to Keele and the 3 will run Hanley to Crewe. That will hopefully allow them to run more deckers to Keele Uni.

[barry619]

@barry619 First have only just repainted the W-reg B7TL/ALX400's at Bath in allover purple for Uni routes and masked their age with private plates. More deckers are needed at a few First subsidiaries, so I can't see them disposing of B7TL's just yet. Maybe  it's more of a case that the B7TL's will not be modified by Potteries but will be disposed of to Bristol to join the rest of the batch & brought up to DDA there?

Indeed, I believe that the plan is that (if there any takers) they will move to another subsidiary rather than go for scrap. However the plan is not for Potteries to retain them; that would seem to be driven by the second batch of Leicester StreetDecks, and is logical as Potteries certainly have better things to spend money on (repaints, repanelling and a bus wash which is capable of cleaning the entire fleet at least a couple of times a week would seem to be the most obvious ones).

From January the 3 is being split, so the 25 will return from Hanley to Keele and the 3 will run Hanley to Crewe. That will hopefully allow them to run more deckers to Keele Uni.

Interesting... common sense for once!

[winston]

Indeed, I believe that the plan is that (if there any takers) they will move to another subsidiary rather than go for scrap. However the plan is not for Potteries to retain them; that would seem to be driven by the second batch of Leicester StreetDecks, and is logical as Potteries certainly have better things to spend money on (repaints, repanelling and a bus wash which is capable of cleaning the entire fleet at least a couple of times a week would seem to be the most obvious ones).

Spending any money at Potteries would be a bonus as would trying to win the travelling public back over.

[47609FireFly]

66310 is now in service in Leicester.

There is speculation that more of Leicester's 51 plate ALX400 bodied B7TLs will be heading over to PMT to provide additional capacity for Keele.

[barry619]

66310 is now in service in Leicester.

There is speculation that more of Leicester's 51 plate ALX400 bodied B7TLs will be heading over to PMT to provide additional capacity for Keele.

12 double-deckers will be required for the revised service to Keele according to the present timetable. Add to that the requirements for the services to Cheadle and Uttoxeter, plus another five or six required on 'normal' service to satisfy peak college flows and two employed on dedicated college services, and the 22(?) B7TLs currently in the Potteries fleet will not be enough, so you are no doubt right. In addition, with the double-decking of Keele there will then be too many cherry-fronted saloons.

The only reluctance towards having many more 'deckers in the Potteries is the prevalence of low bridges which may be encountered when running 'dead' at the beginning or end of the day.