Manufacturing What Ifs?

[the trainbasher]

I've always wondered If the pointer was still made today, could it have killed off the enviro200 and the streetlite? And if West Midlands opted for the Olympian, would Optare have developed the Spectra (and would we be seeing Olympians in service in Wolverhampton instead of spectras?)?

What's you thoughts on these, and indeed, your what ifs...

[Tony]

I've always wondered If the pointer was still made today, could it have killed off the enviro200 and the streetlite? And if West Midlands opted for the Olympian, would Optare have developed the Spectra (and would we be seeing Olympians in service in Wolverhampton instead of spectras?)?

What's you thoughts on these, and indeed, your what ifs...

The first question is a bit silly as the Enviro 200 was the direct replacement from the same manufacturer it couldn't have killed it off, and Wrights would still want a competitor to Alexander Dennis' Vehicle.

Your second question doesn't make any sense either as the Spectra was developed and sold to several operators when West Midlands weren't buying any buses so whatever vehicle would have purchased would have not made the slightest difference to what Optare were doing

[the trainbasher]

Re the pointer. What I meant was if production of it (albeit with a Plaxton Centro style facelift possibly?) was run along side the Enviro200. Similar to how the Pointer was, at Transbus built alongside the ALX200 for a short while.

The Olympian would be based on the assumption that West Midlands Travel had shunned the Metrobus (and the Scanias), instead opting for the Leyland, and then Volvo Olympian. The metrobus would have only sold in London and North East so would have Optare, when they brought the metrobus designs, considered replacing the metrobus at all, considering that the Olympian would have been more popular.

[Tony]

Re the pointer. What I meant was if production of it (albeit with a Plaxton Centro style facelift possibly?) was run along side the Enviro200. Similar to how the Pointer was, at Transbus built alongside the ALX200 for a short while.

The Olympian would be based on the assumption that West Midlands Travel had shunned the Metrobus (and the Scanias), instead opting for the Leyland, and then Volvo Olympian. The metrobus would have only sold in London and North East so would have Optare, when they brought the metrobus designs, considered replacing the metrobus at all, considering that the Olympian would have been more popular.

Plaxton was in Transbus ownership since 2003, before pointer production finished, in fact several 'Plaxton' Pointer bodies weren't built by Plaxton at all but by Alexander, so my comments about direct replacement remain true. Transbus wouldn't have updated the Pointer at the same time launching the Enviro range

[Justin Tyme]

Adding to this, the Pointer was an ageing design (dating back to around 1991), when ADL introduced the Enviro 200 to replace it.

Also, the Optare Spectra was not designed specifically for West Midlands Travel, although I expect Optare hoped to get some orders from them.  It was also launched around 1991, and was notably bought by London General, Reading Buses and (perhaps best known) Wilts & Dorset.  WMT only bought some when the low floor version was launched, and did not go back for more once Volvo and Dennis low floor models were available.

Now, what if WMPTE had shunned the Metrobus as soon as the Olympian was available?   Well, West Midlands was not the only market for the Metrobus - London Transport had more than WMPTE and TWM combined, and several others went to Hong Kong and UK operators.  Even if we were to discount WMT, the Optare Spectra would surely have been worth developing.

I have read somewhere (a Capital Transport London Bus Review book?) that at one point it was possible that London Transport's final Metrobus might have had a (bus) body based on the Metroliner coach design.  A pity it didn't happen, as visually it would have been a stunner.

[mikestone]

To my mind the Optare Spectra was absolutely the worst development to ever hit the bus industry, being the first to bulls**t operators into believing styling was more important than legroom.

[wilmotm (Matt Wilmot)]

I disagree! Sit upstairs on any WN Spectra and you will find there is far more legroom than in the Tridents! Almost a rival for the B5 Hybrids

[4006]

Well my what if is 'What if MCW had not gone bump" The Metrobus MKIII looked far more appealing than the Spectra, maybe a new Metrocab would have hit the scene or coaches to follow up the Metroliner and 400GT it could have completely changed the transport industy as we see it today

[Ashley]

Behind all the pretty, fancy bodywork of today lies less comfort, less power, less appeal. Many people have slated B6's, sometimes justifiable but they're still better than Streetlites. The old school designs may have dated but what was so wrong with the simple designs? Obviously it's unrealistic to say "why can't we have Metrobuses again?" As nice as that would be but things like MkI B7RLE's, B7TL's, Trident's once they'd got it right. I'm not a fan of change and I'm not strcuk on this lightweight design frenzy and maybe none of this has any substance but if it ain't broke don't fix it is probably a suitable phrase at this point.