Rotala Management - Questions & Answers

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

To be fair to Daniel (Tank90) I can see where he is coming from with some of his points raised re: seated capacity reduction

I.e. prior to Rotala's takeover of the First RH operations, the following were operating in Redditch:

First:
10 x Trident / Plaxton Presidents
2 x Volvo Citybuses
1 x Volvo Olympian
16 x ADL E300's

Red Diamond:
12 x Volvo B7RLE

Since the two operations have been merged, the combined Pvrs & overlapping services rationalized there are far fewer double deckers & full size single decker operating in the town than previous when both operators were competing head to head. Obviously now the operations are combined and the competition from First has been removed, Diamond are now taking 100% of the revenue & carrying all passengers rather than a split of say 50/50 with First previously.

Diamond now have the following:
12 x Volvo B7RLE
5 x Trident Presidents
7 x ADL E300's
1 x MAN/Centro (30801)

Unless I'm mistaken the 5 x new Streetlites aren't the DF Max type, I understand them to effectively be the same length as a full length Dart/E200. Therefore as I see it, there are now 8 x deckers & 8 x full size single deckers less than when First & Diamond we both locked in competition.

Although the First RH operation that Rotala inherited was historically loss making, some of that may well have been down to the fact the like for like competition from Diamond on all of First's main town services and the low fares that resulted on some routes. Surely now the Rotala have both operations, are taking 100% of the Redditch revenue with cost reductions from the rationalization mentioned above and have little of no competition, surely the financial performance from the combined operations should have improved dramatically? 

Back to my query:

I had a ride past Tividale depot today and noticed that only one withdrawn Dart remained parked in the overflow yard, interestingly none of the operational fleet were parked in there & the gates locked. Is it safe to assume that the additional parking is no longer required and Diamond will soon no longer be using it?

I assume the glass recycling facility next to the main Tividale depot is still not available for acquisition?

Winston,

1.  First and Diamond only competed directly on one route. 
2.  We now have 6 MAN Centro's, none were previously in Redditch
3.  My understanding is that the deckers were in Redditch, not for capacity reasons but because they had become spare following exit from London.
4.  Can someone actually tell me what they think the deckers were required for, if it is for capacity reasons.

In response to your questions about Tividale

1.  The land we previously occupied, has been re-let to someone else at the end of our lease.  We were never offered the option.
2.  I understand somone has signed a lease on the glass place for 10 years.
3.  We are moving/have moved all our for sale/spare buses to Kidderminster.
4.  Our preference has always been to acquire the Glass site.  In the absence of this, we have calculated if we acquire a car park within walking distance we can increase the depot capacity by about 30 vehicles.


Simon

[Simon Dunn]

I have to ask about W904 JNF Simon. I am not suggesting for one second Diamond have done anything funny here and am 100% sure there is a reasonable explanation.

But from my observations and searching photo's etc... the 'current' W904 JNF, has a different front, a completely different dashboard, different style of seats, different colour poles, seats in a Stagecoach moquette! (Particularly confusing this one) Gasket not bonded glazing (this is the major change), side destination in a different place and different mirrors to name just the notable differences

When this vehicle returned from Avonmouth, there was a lot of damage and repairs required to the vehicle.

We use a third party contractor for some Engine rebuilds, and on returning a vehicle, he said he had just acquired a similiar vehicle from Stagecoach and was able to undertake the repairs on our vehicle at a competitive price.

I have not noticed the vehicle on its return.  However, I presume this is the reason why



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

can you confirm if 20849 (KU52 RYH) will be returning to Kidderminster and if so will this be on a permanent basis?

Will

Will

This is a Tividale vehicle.  However, we are moving some Tividale services to Kidderminster before the end of May.  At that point we will need to transfer some vehicles, this may be one of the vehicles we transfer




Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon

I think my reply may have got buried under postings not relevant to the topic. To save searching back through, I will modify and re-post below.


Thanks very much, as ever, for your replies-much appreciated. Just a couple of things:

1) When do you see the remaining JNF's returning to service, presumably at Kidderminster? Do they need much doing to them or do they look worse than they actually are?

2) So would you say that is it as regards Worcestershire network changes, at least for the time being, pre-WCC contract changes being announced?

3) Why do repaints of royales seem to have stalled, as TE now has spare capacity sufficient for repaints, or am I wrong on that?

4) Where abouts is Y283HUA as I haven't seen that for ages?

5) Why has TE been cleared of withdrawn vehicles-would it not be better to keep the scrap cadets there to use directly for spares, or does KR have more engineering expertise?

6) I take it you have been offered the ex Western Greyhound solos. I know you are a fan of Merc Solo's or is it a case of too many small buses still?

7) I understand also that the vast majority of Centro contracts in the Black Country are being re-tendered this year. Have Centro confirmed this with you and do you think this could have a positive or negative impact upon the TE part of the business?

Many thanks and best of luck for trying to further improve your already successful Diamond business. I and I am sure most others feel you and Rotala are doing a fantastic job!

Dear Sir,

In response to your questions.

1.  We have out sourced the work, so I am not exactly sure of the timescales.  I expect they will return to Kidderminster though
2.  Yes
3.  We have moved painting the VDL's in front of the Royale's.  It makes more sense to put these into use.
4.  Off the road at Kidderminster, awaiting parts.
5.  Please note reply to Winston.
6.  No, we werent.
7.  Most contract terminations have been driven to the October re-tendering date.  Like always we will submit our price.



Simon

[Solo1]

Which services are moving to Kidderminster
& what's the reason behind it thank you

[Trident 4609]

Hi Simon,

can you confirm if 20849 (KU52 RYH) will be returning to Kidderminster and if so will this be on a permanent basis?

Will

Will

This is a Tividale vehicle.  However, we are moving some Tividale services to Kidderminster before the end of May.  At that point we will need to transfer some vehicles, this may be one of the vehicles we transfer




Simon

Hi Simon,

Will one of the routes moving from Tividale to Kiddeminster be the 142 by any chance?

[Simon Dunn]

Which services are moving to Kidderminster
& what's the reason behind it thank you

We are looking at moving the 142, and 202.



Simon

[Trident 4609]

Which services are moving to Kidderminster
& what's the reason behind it thank you

We are looking at moving the 142, and 202.



Simon

Cheers Simon. If the 202 does move that mean the Royale Centro's that are used on the 202 can be put onto other route. Maybe they can be used on the 4 as i have noticed alot of Darts/Cadets still operate the 4.

[iamwilljh92]

Which services are moving to Kidderminster
& what's the reason behind it thank you

We are looking at moving the 142, and 202.



Simon

is there no possibility that we could have the 146 route (or a new route all together) could it not be merged with the X3 i.e. goes from Kidder to Redditch then from RH to BH and vice versa? I think having a bus direct from Kidderminster to Birmingham (albeit via Redditch) would be a valuable commodity and also are there any plans for Diamond to start doing services to Bridgnorth could Diamond not purchase the Arriva (297) or Whittle (125) contract?

[PM]

In response to your questions.

1.  We have out sourced the work, so I am not exactly sure of the timescales.  I expect they will return to Kidderminster though
2.  Yes
3.  We have moved painting the VDL's in front of the Royale's.  It makes more sense to put these into use.
4.  Off the road at Kidderminster, awaiting parts.
5.  Please note reply to Winston.
6.  No, we werent.
7.  Most contract terminations have been driven to the October re-tendering date.  Like always we will submit our price.



Simon

Thanks, as ever, for your replies.

I take it you now intend for the VDL centro's to re-enter service if you intend to have them painted?

I see you mentioned to Winston acquiring a car park near Tividale, within walking distance. Would this be required if some black country stuff moved over to Tividale or is it anticipation of LAC closing and services moving into Tividale from there?

[nitromatt1]

Which services are moving to Kidderminster
& what's the reason behind it thank you

We are looking at moving the 142, and 202.



Simon

Cheers Simon. If the 202 does move that mean the Royale Centro's that are used on the 202 can be put onto other route. Maybe they can be used on the 4 as i have noticed alot of Darts/Cadets still operate the 4.

Or move the Royales to Kidder where they can be used on more suitable routes (202, X3, 294/295, 303)...

[winston]

Winston,

1.  First and Diamond only competed directly on one route. 
2.  We now have 6 MAN Centro's, none were previously in Redditch
3.  My understanding is that the deckers were in Redditch, not for capacity reasons but because they had become spare following exit from London.
4.  Can someone actually tell me what they think the deckers were required for, if it is for capacity reasons.

In response to your questions about Tividale

1.  The land we previously occupied, has been re-let to someone else at the end of our lease.  We were never offered the option.
2.  I understand somone has signed a lease on the glass place for 10 years.
3.  We are moving/have moved all our for sale/spare buses to Kidderminster.
4.  Our preference has always been to acquire the Glass site.  In the absence of this, we have calculated if we acquire a car park within walking distance we can increase the depot capacity by about 30 vehicles.

Simon

Thanks for your replies Simon.

1. Were the 51 & 70 routes tendered then?
2. Yes there are 6 x MAN/Centro's but other than 30801 they are all 38 seaters which I would class as a 'Midis'. Another issue I've noticed which seems to crop up frequently is people complaining about the number of moms with pushchairs on certain routes, obviously if one pushchair is carried you also lose the 3 pull down seats and then only able to accommodate 35 seated.
3. I believe First draughted in the Tridents as they were available and to make Redditch fully low floor i.e. remove the remaining Lance from service. I did understand prior to the Rotala takeover that double deckers on some routes in the peaks were welcomed (i.e. 57/58) + all schools
5. Some time ago you suggested the Rotala were looking at either re-developing Plymouth Road or building a new purpose built depot out of town & possibly moving the 50 from Long Acre in to Redditch. has anything moved forward with those plans?

Re: Tividale

1. Nice of them not to have offered you the option, do Rotala only rent half of the car park? Could the new tenant want the lot?
2. Were you not consulted / offered a lease on the glass place either. Not ideal to lease, but once in you may have been able to persuade the owners to sell up in the future.
4. You are probably already aware, but there does seem ample open parking area on the 'Vaughen Trading Estate' back up Sedgley Road East on the right heading back up towards Dudley Port looking on Google Earth, there is also a 'to let' sign up & another coach operator appears to base its vehicles there just behind the gatehouse.
5. Re possibly moving the 142 & 202 out of Tividale & in to Kidderminster. Have you considered moving the 226 to KR? Obviously the Darts it currently employs would be more fitting in with KR's fleet and the timetable could possibly be amended so journey's start/finish at Wordsley / Kingswinford which isn't too far from KR? I assume the 202 at KR would lose its Centro's?

[the trainbasher]

Looking at the 226 some trips terminate at Kingswinford and some start at Wordsley hospital

[winston]

Looking at the 226 some trips terminate at Kingswinford and some start at Wordsley hospital

The only with the 226 proposal that I've since though of it KR depot isn't currently open in the evenings or on Sundays to cover all 2226/226W workings.

If it was, the 205 could also be moved to KR as well as some trips start/finish in Wall Heath (Blaze Park), straight down the A449 and the buses are back home.

[Simon Dunn]

Which services are moving to Kidderminster
& what's the reason behind it thank you

We are looking at moving the 142, and 202.



Simon

Cheers Simon. If the 202 does move that mean the Royale Centro's that are used on the 202 can be put onto other route. Maybe they can be used on the 4 as i have noticed alot of Darts/Cadets still operate the 4.

Nathan

We have not decided as yet, which vehicles we should transfer



Simon