Rotala Management - Questions & Answers

[Steveminor]

Simon
Re your Wessex operation. Initially you made good inroads into Firsts operation with some good head to head routes in Bath the 121 contract to weston etc. you seem to have lost a little ground recently. With Bristol council (especially) actively looking for someone to compete with First (they don't seem to like them very much) are you looking to expand your operation in the West Country "maybe more head to head competition" your head to head competition against first in redditch turned out very favorably for you.

[Isle of Stroma]

1.  Normal Versa

I am not sure when I would ever buy one.  In terms of Value for money, as prices sit today they are too close to a heavier/better product being a Citaro or Volvo Wrights Eclipse to consider buying one.

2.  Hybrid Versa

The vehicles were good value for money as they were 100% additional cost funded, without this there is no justification to buy them.

Simon,

I will admit to some sceptiscism over the Versa hybrid capabilities when new, but was immediately won over by them & able to discount Drivers stories that they weren't up to maintaining schedule (on the 56). Passengers comments were extremely favourable - noticeably more appreciative of them than the comparable 'Signature' Solos, they gave an extremely favourable image of the company (with the exception of the one with the vinyl wrap!).

Out of interest, how do the hybrids perform in terms of fuel consumption, now that they've been configured & been in service for a good while - For example, do they compare favourably to the pair of straight-diesel Versa's acquired for the 30? Are they returning a fuel cost saving over the life of the vehicle that justifies the additional cost over a straight diesel?

Regards, Dave.

[PM]

Hello Simon

I'm not sure if this is your department, but do you know what's been going on with the 002 Centros lately? Is another one VOR (in addition to 30808), as there seem to be 2-3 unbranded buses on the 002 each day recently?

Matt

Matt,

30808 is under going MOT and body refurb, whilst 30809 has an on going Engine/Fuel issue which we are trying to bottom out.



Simon

Will you be repainting 30808 and if so will it be into diamond blue livery or the double o 2 green?

Also, as you operate VDL /centros is rotala keen on them as a type? Is so, would http://www.arrivabusandcoach.co.uk/stockPage.php?cb=1&nu=0 be something rotala would consider.

Are ex lease buses like e200s and streetlites something rotala would consider of value as well? http://www.mistral-bus.com/used-bus-sales/



Thanks

Peter

Peter

1.  There is no plan to repaint the 002 buses.
2.  I have no plans to buy any more VDL's.  It is a none standard bus for us.  We have 5, which we had to acquire in 2007 when Plaxtons told me the day of delivery for the Park & Ride buses, that they couldn't deliver.
3.  I have recently just acquired a number Streetlites off Mistral.  The condition of them was unacceptable, and unless they do something to deal with this, we won't be buying any more buses from them




Simon

Thanks very much Simon

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what does a body refurb mean? Is it external or internal or a bit of both?

I can understand about the VDLs-did rotala not want to just lease them so they could be returned when the volvos arrived? Would it make sense to ultimately move them over to tividale as they run several sb120s?

And were the buses acquired from mistral the ones that entered the fleet at wessex that were secondhand, or have more been bought since?

I was also wondering which buses you plan to repaint next

Finally, noticed this picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/karloakley/9701165310/in/pool-rotala-group/ and it looks extremely smart. Could a similar vinyl be used on diamond buses to advertise return fares on key routes?

Thanks again

Peter

Peter,

1.  We are undertaking work to repanel the vehicle.
2.  I was told the day of delivery so there was no time other than to just pay for them.
3.  Yes, the Wessex vehicles
4.  We have a long list of vehicles based at Tividale, we are looking to repaint.
5.  We are in the process of vinyl up a large number of buses with fares offers.





Simon

Thanks for your replies Simon and I'm looking forward to seeing the vinyls for fares offers. Thanks for your replies-I'll leave you in peace for a bit now!

[winston]

Hi Simon,

1. I think I may have touched on part of this before? I've noticed that there are a number of 08/09 plate MAN/Wright Meridians currently for sale on the second-hand market with Drew Wilson & now Ensign have taken two in during Nov ex Premiere, plus Santander have a number of similar aged examples for hire

The 08/09 plate examples at Drew Wilson are priced £65k each, when compared to what Rotala where originally asking for their 5 ex Whitelaw 04 plate B7RLE/Wright Eclipse that Yourbus acquired, them seem very competitively priced, would you agree? Or are they that poor a product?

http://www.drewwilson.co.uk/type/bus/

2. Additionally, is Rotala Group's only real option to fund any future acquisitions via debt financing? In the past additional funds have normally been raised through the issue of additional shares to raise capital for expansion, is there a limit on how many time you can do this due to diluting major shareholders percentage stakes. 

3. If Rotala are successful in selling one or both of Long Acre & Shady Lane depot, do Rotala plan to re-invest the money back in to the West Midland operations or pay down some of the existing debt? Or a bit of both?

Winston,

1.  Ironically I got offered these buses on Friday, and was told me to make an offer.  So I did,  the offer I made was substantially below the £65K you mention.  I don't think they will accept it.
2.  Providing an acquisition is earnings enhancing from a shareholder perspective we will get support for whatever we want to do.  Issuing equity if needed has never been a problem, nor do we expect it to be going forward.
3.  Rotala EBITDA is over £6 million, Dividend is less than 10% of this, so in essence every year we generate millions every year to pay down debt, to reinvest or for acquisitions.  The biggest desire from the Board, the Shareholders and I is for growth.  As I sit here today, we intend to put formulate a structured fleet replacement programme for Preston, there are at present (unless we are awarded new business) no new or replacement vehicle requirements for the South West or London, so the only other fleet requirement is the West Midlands in which we recognise we need to replace a number of short buses with longer buses.  The purpose of considering the sale of Long Acre is to improve efficiency and in doing so financial performance, and increase available cash for investment without the need for Equity

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for all your responses, few more points in response, you'll be pleased to here.....

1. Re: the Drew Wilson MAN/Wright Meridian's, I take it Rotala aren't that fussed either way if you've gone in with a cheeky offer? I was already under the impression that they were priced to sell using the Rotala asking price for the 04 plate B7RLE's £60k as a guide and the fact that they have been for sale for some time. I see from your other comments that your full size single deckers of choice are B7RLE/Wright or Merc Citaro's, but obviously very few of those come on to the second-hand market or are snapped up quickly by others
3. I'm no financial expert, but isn't it catch 22 with the debt financing? I.e. if group debt levels were much lower, interest payments would be lower/the amount of EBITDA required annually to pay down debt would fall substantially, thus pre-tax profits and margins would be much higher? Then Rotala could pay more cash for future growth & acquisitions and reduce the level of additional debt taken on.
4. Do Rotala allocate an annual budget for existing fleet vehicle  replacement new & used?
5. Re: your comments about the state of the ex Mistral Streetlites st Wessex, is it common practice for vehicles not to be inspected before a deal is concluded & monies change hands?
6. I know you've previously that said your not really a fan of the Esteem bodywork and we've asked about the B7RLE/Optare Esteems currently for sale @ Ensign, I was thinking would there be any mileage in acquiring those from Ensign, putting them in to Preston to allow the withdrawal/sale of a further 4 x Scania/Esteems and potentially move the sole Merc Citaro (30103) down to Long Acre to provide back-up on Signature service 82? At least those Esteems would be on a favored chassis and you may be able to pick them up at a sensible price given that most other operators will no doubt share your opinion on the bodywork and interest will be low

[Simon Dunn]

Simon
Re your Wessex operation. Initially you made good inroads into Firsts operation with some good head to head routes in Bath the 121 contract to weston etc. you seem to have lost a little ground recently. With Bristol council (especially) actively looking for someone to compete with First (they don't seem to like them very much) are you looking to expand your operation in the West Country "maybe more head to head competition" your head to head competition against first in redditch turned out very favorably for you.

Steve,

Most of our original operation focused around contracted work,  the 121 including.  We only operate 1 commercial service and this is something we would like to build over time.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

1.  Normal Versa

I am not sure when I would ever buy one.  In terms of Value for money, as prices sit today they are too close to a heavier/better product being a Citaro or Volvo Wrights Eclipse to consider buying one.

2.  Hybrid Versa

The vehicles were good value for money as they were 100% additional cost funded, without this there is no justification to buy them.

Simon,

I will admit to some sceptiscism over the Versa hybrid capabilities when new, but was immediately won over by them & able to discount Drivers stories that they weren't up to maintaining schedule (on the 56). Passengers comments were extremely favourable - noticeably more appreciative of them than the comparable 'Signature' Solos, they gave an extremely favourable image of the company (with the exception of the one with the vinyl wrap!).

Out of interest, how do the hybrids perform in terms of fuel consumption, now that they've been configured & been in service for a good while - For example, do they compare favourably to the pair of straight-diesel Versa's acquired for the 30? Are they returning a fuel cost saving over the life of the vehicle that justifies the additional cost over a straight diesel?

Regards, Dave.

Dave

To be eligible for the DFT funding the vehicles need to deliver 30% increase in fuel efficiency.  Assuming they are used on the right route and operating conditions they are capable of delivering this.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

1. I think I may have touched on part of this before? I've noticed that there are a number of 08/09 plate MAN/Wright Meridians currently for sale on the second-hand market with Drew Wilson & now Ensign have taken two in during Nov ex Premiere, plus Santander have a number of similar aged examples for hire

The 08/09 plate examples at Drew Wilson are priced £65k each, when compared to what Rotala where originally asking for their 5 ex Whitelaw 04 plate B7RLE/Wright Eclipse that Yourbus acquired, them seem very competitively priced, would you agree? Or are they that poor a product?

http://www.drewwilson.co.uk/type/bus/

2. Additionally, is Rotala Group's only real option to fund any future acquisitions via debt financing? In the past additional funds have normally been raised through the issue of additional shares to raise capital for expansion, is there a limit on how many time you can do this due to diluting major shareholders percentage stakes. 

3. If Rotala are successful in selling one or both of Long Acre & Shady Lane depot, do Rotala plan to re-invest the money back in to the West Midland operations or pay down some of the existing debt? Or a bit of both?

Winston,

1.  Ironically I got offered these buses on Friday, and was told me to make an offer.  So I did,  the offer I made was substantially below the £65K you mention.  I don't think they will accept it.
2.  Providing an acquisition is earnings enhancing from a shareholder perspective we will get support for whatever we want to do.  Issuing equity if needed has never been a problem, nor do we expect it to be going forward.
3.  Rotala EBITDA is over £6 million, Dividend is less than 10% of this, so in essence every year we generate millions every year to pay down debt, to reinvest or for acquisitions.  The biggest desire from the Board, the Shareholders and I is for growth.  As I sit here today, we intend to put formulate a structured fleet replacement programme for Preston, there are at present (unless we are awarded new business) no new or replacement vehicle requirements for the South West or London, so the only other fleet requirement is the West Midlands in which we recognise we need to replace a number of short buses with longer buses.  The purpose of considering the sale of Long Acre is to improve efficiency and in doing so financial performance, and increase available cash for investment without the need for Equity

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for all your responses, few more points in response, you'll be pleased to here.....

1. Re: the Drew Wilson MAN/Wright Meridian's, I take it Rotala aren't that fussed either way if you've gone in with a cheeky offer? I was already under the impression that they were priced to sell using the Rotala asking price for the 04 plate B7RLE's £60k as a guide and the fact that they have been for sale for some time. I see from your other comments that your full size single deckers of choice are B7RLE/Wright or Merc Citaro's, but obviously very few of those come on to the second-hand market or are snapped up quickly by others
3. I'm no financial expert, but isn't it catch 22 with the debt financing? I.e. if group debt levels were much lower, interest payments would be lower/the amount of EBITDA required annually to pay down debt would fall substantially, thus pre-tax profits and margins would be much higher? Then Rotala could pay more cash for future growth & acquisitions and reduce the level of additional debt taken on.
4. Do Rotala allocate an annual budget for existing fleet vehicle  replacement new & used?
5. Re: your comments about the state of the ex Mistral Streetlites st Wessex, is it common practice for vehicles not to be inspected before a deal is concluded & monies change hands?
6. I know you've previously that said your not really a fan of the Esteem bodywork and we've asked about the B7RLE/Optare Esteems currently for sale @ Ensign, I was thinking would there be any mileage in acquiring those from Ensign, putting them in to Preston to allow the withdrawal/sale of a further 4 x Scania/Esteems and potentially move the sole Merc Citaro (30103) down to Long Acre to provide back-up on Signature service 82? At least those Esteems would be on a favored chassis and you may be able to pick them up at a sensible price given that most other operators will no doubt share your opinion on the bodywork and interest will be low

Winston,

1.  I am not bothered either way.  The Volvo product is a much better product hence the reason for the price difference.
3.  It would be wrong to assume that without a level of continued investment profitability is sustainable.  You are correct if we had less debt than naturally we could pay more cash for acquisitions.
4.  No. 
5.  We inspect nearly all the vehicles we acquire.  With the "Mistral vehicles" we were assured over their condition by the Sales Director.  So like most relationships there is an element of trust.
6.  I currently have offers on some other B7RLE's, for which we are awaiting a response.




Simon

[winston]

Hi Simon,

1. I think I may have touched on part of this before? I've noticed that there are a number of 08/09 plate MAN/Wright Meridians currently for sale on the second-hand market with Drew Wilson & now Ensign have taken two in during Nov ex Premiere, plus Santander have a number of similar aged examples for hire

The 08/09 plate examples at Drew Wilson are priced £65k each, when compared to what Rotala where originally asking for their 5 ex Whitelaw 04 plate B7RLE/Wright Eclipse that Yourbus acquired, them seem very competitively priced, would you agree? Or are they that poor a product?

http://www.drewwilson.co.uk/type/bus/

2. Additionally, is Rotala Group's only real option to fund any future acquisitions via debt financing? In the past additional funds have normally been raised through the issue of additional shares to raise capital for expansion, is there a limit on how many time you can do this due to diluting major shareholders percentage stakes. 

3. If Rotala are successful in selling one or both of Long Acre & Shady Lane depot, do Rotala plan to re-invest the money back in to the West Midland operations or pay down some of the existing debt? Or a bit of both?

Winston,

1.  Ironically I got offered these buses on Friday, and was told me to make an offer.  So I did,  the offer I made was substantially below the £65K you mention.  I don't think they will accept it.
2.  Providing an acquisition is earnings enhancing from a shareholder perspective we will get support for whatever we want to do.  Issuing equity if needed has never been a problem, nor do we expect it to be going forward.
3.  Rotala EBITDA is over £6 million, Dividend is less than 10% of this, so in essence every year we generate millions every year to pay down debt, to reinvest or for acquisitions.  The biggest desire from the Board, the Shareholders and I is for growth.  As I sit here today, we intend to put formulate a structured fleet replacement programme for Preston, there are at present (unless we are awarded new business) no new or replacement vehicle requirements for the South West or London, so the only other fleet requirement is the West Midlands in which we recognise we need to replace a number of short buses with longer buses.  The purpose of considering the sale of Long Acre is to improve efficiency and in doing so financial performance, and increase available cash for investment without the need for Equity

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for all your responses, few more points in response, you'll be pleased to here.....

1. Re: the Drew Wilson MAN/Wright Meridian's, I take it Rotala aren't that fussed either way if you've gone in with a cheeky offer? I was already under the impression that they were priced to sell using the Rotala asking price for the 04 plate B7RLE's £60k as a guide and the fact that they have been for sale for some time. I see from your other comments that your full size single deckers of choice are B7RLE/Wright or Merc Citaro's, but obviously very few of those come on to the second-hand market or are snapped up quickly by others
3. I'm no financial expert, but isn't it catch 22 with the debt financing? I.e. if group debt levels were much lower, interest payments would be lower/the amount of EBITDA required annually to pay down debt would fall substantially, thus pre-tax profits and margins would be much higher? Then Rotala could pay more cash for future growth & acquisitions and reduce the level of additional debt taken on.
4. Do Rotala allocate an annual budget for existing fleet vehicle  replacement new & used?
5. Re: your comments about the state of the ex Mistral Streetlites st Wessex, is it common practice for vehicles not to be inspected before a deal is concluded & monies change hands?
6. I know you've previously that said your not really a fan of the Esteem bodywork and we've asked about the B7RLE/Optare Esteems currently for sale @ Ensign, I was thinking would there be any mileage in acquiring those from Ensign, putting them in to Preston to allow the withdrawal/sale of a further 4 x Scania/Esteems and potentially move the sole Merc Citaro (30103) down to Long Acre to provide back-up on Signature service 82? At least those Esteems would be on a favored chassis and you may be able to pick them up at a sensible price given that most other operators will no doubt share your opinion on the bodywork and interest will be low

Winston,

1.  I am not bothered either way.  The Volvo product is a much better product hence the reason for the price difference.
3.  It would be wrong to assume that without a level of continued investment profitability is sustainable.  You are correct if we had less debt than naturally we could pay more cash for acquisitions.
4.  No. 
5.  We inspect nearly all the vehicles we acquire.  With the "Mistral vehicles" we were assured over their condition by the Sales Director.  So like most relationships there is an element of trust.
6.  I currently have offers on some other B7RLE's, for which we are awaiting a response.

Simon

Simon,

Many thanks for all your open & honest replies, all very interesting stuff especially with the replies to questions that we wouldn't normally get the opportunity to ask.

Obviously there are more B7RLE's around than we think, the only potential option I can see from reports elsewhere are some B7RLE/Wright are being returned off lease from Transdev Lancashire United. I assume you get to hear about vehicles coming on to the market long before they are advertized on the web/in the trade press. If that offer was to be accepted would they be more likely to head to Preston based on your planned fleet renewal programme?

I'll leave it there and leave you in peace for a while,

Cheers,

Winston

[iamwilljh92]

Hi Simon,

I'm just wondering how much (just out of interest) do you intend to sell 31507 (R455 CCV) for?, Or has she already been sold to another operator?

And also what are your intentions for (R503 CNP) the old First Mercedes Beaver parked up in Kidderminster is it being scrapped or retained for any purpose?

I await your response

Regards
Will.

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

1. I think I may have touched on part of this before? I've noticed that there are a number of 08/09 plate MAN/Wright Meridians currently for sale on the second-hand market with Drew Wilson & now Ensign have taken two in during Nov ex Premiere, plus Santander have a number of similar aged examples for hire

The 08/09 plate examples at Drew Wilson are priced £65k each, when compared to what Rotala where originally asking for their 5 ex Whitelaw 04 plate B7RLE/Wright Eclipse that Yourbus acquired, them seem very competitively priced, would you agree? Or are they that poor a product?

http://www.drewwilson.co.uk/type/bus/

2. Additionally, is Rotala Group's only real option to fund any future acquisitions via debt financing? In the past additional funds have normally been raised through the issue of additional shares to raise capital for expansion, is there a limit on how many time you can do this due to diluting major shareholders percentage stakes. 

3. If Rotala are successful in selling one or both of Long Acre & Shady Lane depot, do Rotala plan to re-invest the money back in to the West Midland operations or pay down some of the existing debt? Or a bit of both?

Winston,

1.  Ironically I got offered these buses on Friday, and was told me to make an offer.  So I did,  the offer I made was substantially below the £65K you mention.  I don't think they will accept it.
2.  Providing an acquisition is earnings enhancing from a shareholder perspective we will get support for whatever we want to do.  Issuing equity if needed has never been a problem, nor do we expect it to be going forward.
3.  Rotala EBITDA is over £6 million, Dividend is less than 10% of this, so in essence every year we generate millions every year to pay down debt, to reinvest or for acquisitions.  The biggest desire from the Board, the Shareholders and I is for growth.  As I sit here today, we intend to put formulate a structured fleet replacement programme for Preston, there are at present (unless we are awarded new business) no new or replacement vehicle requirements for the South West or London, so the only other fleet requirement is the West Midlands in which we recognise we need to replace a number of short buses with longer buses.  The purpose of considering the sale of Long Acre is to improve efficiency and in doing so financial performance, and increase available cash for investment without the need for Equity

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for all your responses, few more points in response, you'll be pleased to here.....

1. Re: the Drew Wilson MAN/Wright Meridian's, I take it Rotala aren't that fussed either way if you've gone in with a cheeky offer? I was already under the impression that they were priced to sell using the Rotala asking price for the 04 plate B7RLE's £60k as a guide and the fact that they have been for sale for some time. I see from your other comments that your full size single deckers of choice are B7RLE/Wright or Merc Citaro's, but obviously very few of those come on to the second-hand market or are snapped up quickly by others
3. I'm no financial expert, but isn't it catch 22 with the debt financing? I.e. if group debt levels were much lower, interest payments would be lower/the amount of EBITDA required annually to pay down debt would fall substantially, thus pre-tax profits and margins would be much higher? Then Rotala could pay more cash for future growth & acquisitions and reduce the level of additional debt taken on.
4. Do Rotala allocate an annual budget for existing fleet vehicle  replacement new & used?
5. Re: your comments about the state of the ex Mistral Streetlites st Wessex, is it common practice for vehicles not to be inspected before a deal is concluded & monies change hands?
6. I know you've previously that said your not really a fan of the Esteem bodywork and we've asked about the B7RLE/Optare Esteems currently for sale @ Ensign, I was thinking would there be any mileage in acquiring those from Ensign, putting them in to Preston to allow the withdrawal/sale of a further 4 x Scania/Esteems and potentially move the sole Merc Citaro (30103) down to Long Acre to provide back-up on Signature service 82? At least those Esteems would be on a favored chassis and you may be able to pick them up at a sensible price given that most other operators will no doubt share your opinion on the bodywork and interest will be low

Winston,

1.  I am not bothered either way.  The Volvo product is a much better product hence the reason for the price difference.
3.  It would be wrong to assume that without a level of continued investment profitability is sustainable.  You are correct if we had less debt than naturally we could pay more cash for acquisitions.
4.  No. 
5.  We inspect nearly all the vehicles we acquire.  With the "Mistral vehicles" we were assured over their condition by the Sales Director.  So like most relationships there is an element of trust.
6.  I currently have offers on some other B7RLE's, for which we are awaiting a response.

Simon

Simon,

Many thanks for all your open & honest replies, all very interesting stuff especially with the replies to questions that we wouldn't normally get the opportunity to ask.

Obviously there are more B7RLE's around than we think, the only potential option I can see from reports elsewhere are some B7RLE/Wright are being returned off lease from Transdev Lancashire United. I assume you get to hear about vehicles coming on to the market long before they are advertized on the web/in the trade press. If that offer was to be accepted would they be more likely to head to Preston based on your planned fleet renewal programme?

I'll leave it there and leave you in peace for a while,

Cheers,

Winston

Winston,

The B7RLE would be for the West Midlands, and no it is not the ex-Transdev examples.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

I'm just wondering how much (just out of interest) do you intend to sell 31507 (R455 CCV) for?, Or has she already been sold to another operator?

And also what are your intentions for (R503 CNP) the old First Mercedes Beaver parked up in Kidderminster is it being scrapped or retained for any purpose?

I await your response

Regards
Will.

Will

I have sold both buses, three times and have still not been paid. 

R455CCV - I have previously sold for £4,000 plus VAT including Tyres and destination blinds.  I would sell this week for £3,500 plus VAT
R503CNP - We have no use for the vehicle and our intention is to dispose of it.



Simon

[iamwilljh92]

Hi Simon, thanks for your response and oh I see some people hey and as for R503 CNP can I make a suggestion? Sell it to Whittle's perhaps? Also which other buses do you intend to withdraw/sell/scrap etc are the Alexander Dennis's safe VX54 MUO (30930) /MUC (30931) /MUP (30932)  or are they being sold off etc? if not are the other two (MUO and MUC) being re-sprayed into blue to look like MUP it would be nice to see them both in blue like MUP as they are amazing buses and they run superbly so it would be a shame to see them go (if they were to of course).


Will.

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon, thanks for your response and oh I see some people hey and as for R503 CNP can I make a suggestion? Sell it to Whittle's perhaps? Also which other buses do you intend to withdraw/sell/scrap etc are the Alexander Dennis's safe VX54 MUO (30930) /MUC (30931) /MUP (30932)  or are they being sold off etc? if not are the other two (MUO and MUC) being re-sprayed into blue to look like MUP it would be nice to see them both in blue like MUP as they are amazing buses and they run superbly so it would be a shame to see them go (if they were to of course).


Will.

Will

We are keeping the E300's. 


Simon

[Tony]

Hi Simon, thanks for your response and oh I see some people hey and as for R503 CNP can I make a suggestion? Sell it to Whittle's perhaps? Also which other buses do you intend to withdraw/sell/scrap etc are the Alexander Dennis's safe VX54 MUO (30930) /MUC (30931) /MUP (30932)  or are they being sold off etc? if not are the other two (MUO and MUC) being re-sprayed into blue to look like MUP it would be nice to see them both in blue like MUP as they are amazing buses and they run superbly so it would be a shame to see them go (if they were to of course).


Will.

What on earth makes you think someone like whittles would part with money with an old Merc that hasn't been used for many years

[iamwilljh92]

Tony: Yes good point I guess but if they did it could the do 2A service which YX51 MUO was doing recently

Simon, I forgot to ask you earlier where has (30428, S405 JUA) gone as it states on here that it is based here in Kidderminster and yes it was for about 2-3 weeks it was indeed here parked up around the back of depot but when I walked passed a fortnight or so ago I noticed it had gone. Has it gone elsewhere? or is it still in Kidderminster?