Rotala Management - Questions & Answers

[Simon Dunn]

Winston,

6.  No we acquire buses, were we think we need to.  In terms of Wessex, we have contracts which are annually committed to, and some which are longer term.  The annual committed contracts requirements are not yet 100% clear.  Therefore I cannot answer your question. 

11.  We have a couple of vehicles under repair at Long Acre, which are from Wessex.  Therefore we could certainly dispose of a few vehicles without replacement.  Whether we could dispose of all the vehicles very much depends upon what happens with the annually committed contracts, and other contract wins which may release other suitable replacements.



Simon

[winston]

Winston,

6.  No we acquire buses, were we think we need to.  In terms of Wessex, we have contracts which are annually committed to, and some which are longer term.  The annual committed contracts requirements are not yet 100% clear.  Therefore I cannot answer your question. 

11.  We have a couple of vehicles under repair at Long Acre, which are from Wessex.  Therefore we could certainly dispose of a few vehicles without replacement.  Whether we could dispose of all the vehicles very much depends upon what happens with the annually committed contracts, and other contract wins which may release other suitable replacements.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply, It just sounded from your previous reply, that Rotala didn't currently have any plans to buy any new vehicles this year for either fleet replacement/specific route upgrades or have any contracts which required new investment. I had thought that Rotala may have taken advantage of Euro 5 vehicles still being available this year / the Volvo B7RLE/Wright dealer stock currently available to reduce new vehicle requirements/ investment required during 2015 when Euro 6 is compulsory / allow Rotala to trial demonstrators / seed vehicles etc

Do you have any idea when the Bristol Park & Ride contracts will be available again for you to tender for?

I notice Rotala have added to the 'For Sale' list in the latest RouteOne, is the 05 MPD the Long Acre one 21009 or one of the Wessex ones i.e. 20001 or 20023? I would have thought the MPD was a Rotala standard bus and ideal for Tividale or Kidderminster.

Is the 03 Solo for sale Wessex 20008?

Do Rotala not have any contingency plans should any of the larger newer batches of buses sell i.e. E200's / Signature Citaro's / VDL's / Plaxton Centro's?

[StourportSam]

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much to you and your colleagues for the very detailed response previously. I completely understand the reasons and was expecting such an answer.

My next question is about Kidderminster Bus Station. Is there a particular reason as to why First and now Diamond seemingly boycott the bus station in favour of having services terminate/depart from Exchange Street/Town Hall? Congestion seems even worse on this short stretch since the additional buses for services 1 and X3 have been waiting time there. The road quite often blocks completely for a few minutes as one bus which is unable to get into the stands loads in the middle of the road. Personally I think having all services using the bus station would make for a more integrated network, particularly between different operators. The only reasons I can think of are either capacity or safety due to the poor design?

Thanks
Sam

[Westy]

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much to you and your colleagues for the very detailed response previously. I completely understand the reasons and was expecting such an answer.

My next question is about Kidderminster Bus Station. Is there a particular reason as to why First and now Diamond seemingly boycott the bus station in favour of having services terminate/depart from Exchange Street/Town Hall? Congestion seems even worse on this short stretch since the additional buses for services 1 and X3 have been waiting time there. The road quite often blocks completely for a few minutes as one bus which is unable to get into the stands loads in the middle of the road. Personally I think having all services using the bus station would make for a more integrated network, particularly between different operators. The only reasons I can think of are either capacity or safety due to the poor design?

Thanks
Sam

Don't they have to pay to use the bus station?

[Cedric]

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much to you and your colleagues for the very detailed response previously. I completely understand the reasons and was expecting such an answer.

My next question is about Kidderminster Bus Station. Is there a particular reason as to why First and now Diamond seemingly boycott the bus station in favour of having services terminate/depart from Exchange Street/Town Hall? Congestion seems even worse on this short stretch since the additional buses for services 1 and X3 have been waiting time there. The road quite often blocks completely for a few minutes as one bus which is unable to get into the stands loads in the middle of the road. Personally I think having all services using the bus station would make for a more integrated network, particularly between different operators. The only reasons I can think of are either capacity or safety due to the poor design?

Thanks
Sam

Don't they have to pay to use the bus station?

you are correct the do have to pay the 0nly  diamond ones that do not
are subsidized services   and smaller operator such as  whittles arriva, r&b travel
most of whos  services are subsided. the X 3 only stopped using since the time table change on the 3/6/14

[nitromatt1]

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much to you and your colleagues for the very detailed response previously. I completely understand the reasons and was expecting such an answer.

My next question is about Kidderminster Bus Station. Is there a particular reason as to why First and now Diamond seemingly boycott the bus station in favour of having services terminate/depart from Exchange Street/Town Hall? Congestion seems even worse on this short stretch since the additional buses for services 1 and X3 have been waiting time there. The road quite often blocks completely for a few minutes as one bus which is unable to get into the stands loads in the middle of the road. Personally I think having all services using the bus station would make for a more integrated network, particularly between different operators. The only reasons I can think of are either capacity or safety due to the poor design?

Thanks
Sam

Don't they have to pay to use the bus station?

you are correct the do have to pay the 0nly  diamond ones that do not
are subsidized services   and smaller operator such as  whittles arriva, r&b travel
most of whos  services are subsided. the X 3 only stopped using since the time table change on the 3/6/14

I don't know why Whittle pay to have the 3 and other commerically operated services use the bus station. Most passengers board at the Town Hall stops and Oxford Street!

[Cedric]

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much to you and your colleagues for the very detailed response previously. I completely understand the reasons and was expecting such an answer.

My next question is about Kidderminster Bus Station. Is there a particular reason as to why First and now Diamond seemingly boycott the bus station in favour of having services terminate/depart from Exchange Street/Town Hall? Congestion seems even worse on this short stretch since the additional buses for services 1 and X3 have been waiting time there. The road quite often blocks completely for a few minutes as one bus which is unable to get into the stands loads in the middle of the road. Personally I think having all services using the bus station would make for a more integrated network, particularly between different operators. The only reasons I can think of are either capacity or safety due to the poor design?

Thanks
Sam

Don't they have to pay to use the bus station?

you are correct the do have to pay the 0nly  diamond ones that do not
are subsidized services   and smaller operator such as  whittles arriva, r&b travel
most of whos  services are subsided. the X 3 only stopped using since the time table change on the 3/6/14

I don't know why Whittle pay to have the 3 and other commerically operated services use the bus station. Most passengers board at the Town Hall stops and Oxford Street!

whittle and the other smaller operators do not pay for any of there services to use the bus station,  do not know if I am 100% in thinking this
it has something to do with the owner/developer  of the land the bus station.

[Simon Dunn]

Winston,

6.  No we acquire buses, were we think we need to.  In terms of Wessex, we have contracts which are annually committed to, and some which are longer term.  The annual committed contracts requirements are not yet 100% clear.  Therefore I cannot answer your question. 

11.  We have a couple of vehicles under repair at Long Acre, which are from Wessex.  Therefore we could certainly dispose of a few vehicles without replacement.  Whether we could dispose of all the vehicles very much depends upon what happens with the annually committed contracts, and other contract wins which may release other suitable replacements.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply, It just sounded from your previous reply, that Rotala didn't currently have any plans to buy any new vehicles this year for either fleet replacement/specific route upgrades or have any contracts which required new investment. I had thought that Rotala may have taken advantage of Euro 5 vehicles still being available this year / the Volvo B7RLE/Wright dealer stock currently available to reduce new vehicle requirements/ investment required during 2015 when Euro 6 is compulsory / allow Rotala to trial demonstrators / seed vehicles etc

Do you have any idea when the Bristol Park & Ride contracts will be available again for you to tender for?

I notice Rotala have added to the 'For Sale' list in the latest RouteOne, is the 05 MPD the Long Acre one 21009 or one of the Wessex ones i.e. 20001 or 20023? I would have thought the MPD was a Rotala standard bus and ideal for Tividale or Kidderminster.

Is the 03 Solo for sale Wessex 20008?

Do Rotala not have any contingency plans should any of the larger newer batches of buses sell i.e. E200's / Signature Citaro's / VDL's / Plaxton Centro's?

Winston,

1.  We need to see what develops over the next fews months, with new business, disposals of buses etc.  Ideally we would like to sell some of our older shorter buses and replace with more modern longer kit.
2.  I believe they expire 31st March 2015. 
3.  KP54BYU.  We have the vehicle at LAC, as it is now surplus to requirements at Wessex
4.  20008 is the Solo for sale.
5.  In terms of short buses E200/Optare Solo length vehicles, we have at least 7 too many within Wessex.  Should they sell there is no need for replacement.   Signature/VDL Centro's/ until 1st October due to School/University Holidays we have slack.  Should they sell, we would assess it witihin that period.



Simon

[Simon Dunn]

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much to you and your colleagues for the very detailed response previously. I completely understand the reasons and was expecting such an answer.

My next question is about Kidderminster Bus Station. Is there a particular reason as to why First and now Diamond seemingly boycott the bus station in favour of having services terminate/depart from Exchange Street/Town Hall? Congestion seems even worse on this short stretch since the additional buses for services 1 and X3 have been waiting time there. The road quite often blocks completely for a few minutes as one bus which is unable to get into the stands loads in the middle of the road. Personally I think having all services using the bus station would make for a more integrated network, particularly between different operators. The only reasons I can think of are either capacity or safety due to the poor design?

Thanks
Sam

Sam,

There are 2 reasons.

1.  Safety as you mention.
2.  It is our view that the Town Hall is the more efficient terminus.

My understanding is that the Town Hall stops are in the process of being re-designed, which should resolve the congestion issue.



Simon

[winston]

Winston,

1.  We need to see what develops over the next few months, with new business, disposals of buses etc.  Ideally we would like to sell some of our older shorter buses and replace with more modern longer kit.
2.  I believe they expire 31st March 2015. 
3.  KP54BYU.  We have the vehicle at LAC, as it is now surplus to requirements at Wessex
4.  20008 is the Solo for sale.
5.  In terms of short buses E200/Optare Solo length vehicles, we have at least 7 too many within Wessex.  Should they sell there is no need for replacement.   Signature/VDL Centro's/ until 1st October due to School/University Holidays we have slack.  Should they sell, we would assess it witihin that period.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Many thanks for your previous responses, I've got a few more queries I would like to add if I may, as follows:

1. Re: your comment Ideally we would like to sell some of our older shorter buses and replace with more modern longer kit. obviously I'm not aware how Rotala's accounts are setup internally and how it works when moving assets between the various group subsidiaries / book values etc. However, from recent fleet movement observations over the past 6-9 months) and the Rotala vehicles that are currently for sale, it appears that Rotala are redeploying older 13/14 year old Darts surplus from Wessex to Diamond i.e. Y263KNB, W361ABD, W366ABD, W571JVV & W572JVV, V652/4/6/8HEC's and also reactivating older withdrawn Long Darts such as V382/3/8SVV's W902 & 904JNF, whilst ideally wishing to dispose of far more modern buses or buses that are considered non-standard within Rotala. Could the 07 plate VDL's, the 09 plate E200's & the 09/60/10 plate Citaro's not be retained and the oldest group buses be withdrawn in their place instead through cascading to bring down the average fleet age even further/upgrade the vehicle age profiles at individual depots? Would Rotala still then be in a position to buy the longer more modern buses without the cost of buying brand new & the higher depreciation?

For example:

- KP54BYU is very much a standard Rotala Group (Diamond) bus, why couldn't this be redeployed to Diamond to replace an S or T-reg MPD still in Red Diamond livery?

- As you don't expect to sell the VDL/Centro's or would have to let them go at a knocked down price, why couldn't these have just have gone to Tividale originally? They already operate both VDL SB120 chassis & Plaxton Centro's (just not together) and this could of then released longer Darts to Kidderminster to save to reactivate/repairing the W---JNF's with are already 14 years old.

- I can understand the desire to sell the 3 x Citaro's at Long Acre due to them being non-standard, but then why just leave one in the group at Preston? Why not sell them all or use the 3 from Long Acre to modernize Preston's single deck fleet?

- Re: the 8 x E200's at Wessex for sale, the E200 seems the obvious choice successor to the group standard MPD/Solo within Rotala. Why couldn't these be redeployed to Diamond to replace old MPD's & sell those instead? I sure some of those at Kidderminster would significantly improve Kidderminster's age profile, which ironically other than the 1 x 54 plate MPD (20032) the former First Darts are still the newest with the majority of the fleet dating between 2000-2002 (12-14+ years old). As a side note, I understand First will be making an appearance on the Halesowen-Bromsgrove corridor from Sept in the shape of an extended 144A, no doubt with E300's, I'm still not convinced that the Darts on the 202 are the best choice of vehicle after the passengers have be used to the Royale's for such a long time. 

2. Are Rotala / Wessex still interested in submitting a bid when the Park & Ride routes become available for re-tender, that is assuming they haven't got to be operated by artics?

Ps Sorry about the essay!

[Simon Dunn]

Winston,

1.  Most assets are owned without any form of debt.  So they are simply transferred into the operating subsidiary.
Why we try not to do, is make unsustainable investment. Hence why we choose to operate certain vehicles at certain depots.

2.  The average fleet age of Rotala is around 7.5 years.

3.  With the exception of Kidderminster, most of the older buses are additional spares that shouldn't really be needed.

4.  KP54BYU - Do we really need any more shorter buses?  Ideally we could do with a lot smaller number of short buses.

5.  VDL Centros - If we don't sell them, I think they will stay in Redditch. 

6.  If Preston have the three citaro's, then they will have too many long buses.  Preston have expressed that they would like the Citaro's and have been told if they dispose of 3 x Scania's then I will allow this to happen

7.  E200's - We have too many small buses. 

8.  202 - The Royale's should never have been operating this route.  The operational team should never have allowed this to happen.  The route is not sustainable with the relevant vehicle costs.

9.  Park & Rides - We will always provide prices for contracts within the areas in which we operate.





Simon

[Trident 4609]

Simon, What should have been allocated the the 202 if the Royale Cetro's shouldn't have been on there?

[the trainbasher]

Simon, What should have been allocated the the 202 if the Royale Cetro's shouldn't have been on there?

Personally I think the 30xxx Darts or 302xx DAFs should have been on there but Simon may disagree.

[PM]

Simon

About having too many small vehicles-I completely agree with you. I was thinking re the Primos you operate out of LAC and Heathrow. Are the Heathrow ones leased as didn't one return to Dawson Rentals? Are the rest of them also leased and could disposing of them be a potential option, as I know they are non-standard and you sensibly want to reduce the number of vehicle types operated? Do you see more demand for e200's than the primos in the secondhand market?

Thanks very much

[winston]

Winston,

1.  Most assets are owned without any form of debt.  So they are simply transferred into the operating subsidiary.
Why we try not to do, is make unsustainable investment. Hence why we choose to operate certain vehicles at certain depots.

2.  The average fleet age of Rotala is around 7.5 years.

3.  With the exception of Kidderminster, most of the older buses are additional spares that shouldn't really be needed.

4.  KP54BYU - Do we really need any more shorter buses?  Ideally we could do with a lot smaller number of short buses.

5.  VDL Centros - If we don't sell them, I think they will stay in Redditch. 

6.  If Preston have the three citaro's, then they will have too many long buses.  Preston have expressed that they would like the Citaro's and have been told if they dispose of 3 x Scania's then I will allow this to happen

7.  E200's - We have too many small buses. 

8.  202 - The Royale's should never have been operating this route.  The operational team should never have allowed this to happen.  The route is not sustainable with the relevant vehicle costs.

9.  Park & Rides - We will always provide prices for contracts within the areas in which we operate.

Simon

Thanks for your replies as always.

1 & 3. It is fair to say at present that Kidderminster routes don't generate the revenue/profit you would need to be able to daft in much newer buses to even it's more frequent routes such as the 3? I'm obviously not aware what Rotala would need back in returns for any new/nearly new investment to justify it.

2. I'm aware of Rotala's average fleet age, but if you analyze Diamond's newest vehicles purchased brand new, there was a large investment by Rotala around 2008 when you first acquired the Go West Midlands business, 8 x Royale's followed in 2009 but then Diamond lost an equal number of 58 plate B7RLE/Centro to Wessex on their arrival. There were the 23 x MAN/MCV's 10/60 plates in 2010 which significantly improved the number of new buses operated, those were then sold without replacement around the time Diamond lost a big chunk of Centro contracts. There were the handful of Signature Citaro's & Solo SR's also in 2010, the 8 x Hybrid Versa' in 2012, 3 x B7RLE/Wright & 5 x Streetlites in 2013, so there is quite a big jump in places between new fleet investment, particularly larger buses, with no used larger buses to fill the gaps etc.

4. I think you've missed my point, I wasn't suggesting adding, I suggested using it to remove an older MPD as at 10 years old it has a fair few more years left. Possibly KR could benefit and get rid of a V-reg MPD?

5. Re: Preston, I'm pretty sure I've previously suggested using the 3 x Citaro's to replace 3 x Scania/East Lancs (which you have said you're not a fan of) after you confirmed that Preston would be keeping their sole example & the reason for sale was down to them being non standard at Diamond. Couldn't the 3 x Scania be traded in against the longer more modern buses Rotala are interested in?

7. I agree there are too many small buses, I wasn't suggesting adding to the proportion, I was suggesting using the newer one's to allow older one's to be withdrawn

8. I understand your points re: the 202 & the Royale's, I was looking at it from a quality point of view, whether they shouldn't of been on there or not, they have been & for a good number of years. The Darts will be a bit of come down compared to what passengers have been used to and this could have a negative effect of loadings.

9. Would Rotala ever consider any bolt-on acquisitions for Wessex such as Abus or Somerbus? Rather than starting any new commercial routes against First

10. I think there are instances where the allocation of the larger buses that you do have could be improved as follows:

On the 12th June:

Volvo/Wright on the 226 (which I don't believe is warranted) for the loadings I see
https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/14220511239/

Then on the same day, look what appears on the 002 (which I believe is a core Diamond route) & also faces competition from The Green Bus 22's
https://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/14403795231/

It's the likes of the above which KP54BYU could be used to replace. Really, this shouldn't now occur on the 002, as Tividale has 3 extra B7RLE's now the 202 is at KR & since gaining 30952.

After this batch I've leave you in peace....... whilst I'm on my jollies  ;)