First Group's value takes a dive

[Tony]

I do have a feeling that Rotala would look at expanding their operations in the area, considering they have Diamond NW and Preston. I'm not sure who else could really, other than maybe if Arriva wanted more of a presence in Greater Manchester?

Arriva have tried to sell their current Manchester business without success and rumours that DB want to dispose of the whole of Arriva so I would say that is very doubtful.

There's also
Transdev, who have just bought Rosso that operate into Bolton, so a prime candidate
RATP who have just bought, rather randomly, NAT in South Wales, so may be looking to expand in the UK.
Go Ahead group who also seem to be on the look out for strategic purchases (see Norfolk)
McGills? - They caught everyone out when they bought Arriva Scotland so could surprise everyone

[BK63 YWP]

Arriva have tried to sell their current Manchester business without success and rumours that DB want to dispose of the whole of Arriva so I would say that is very doubtful.

There's also
Transdev, who have just bought Rosso that operate into Bolton, so a prime candidate
RATP who have just bought, rather randomly, NAT in South Wales, so may be looking to expand in the UK.
Go Ahead group who also seem to be on the look out for strategic purchases (see Norfolk)
McGills? - They caught everyone out when they bought Arriva Scotland so could surprise everyone

Has NX got a potential interest in the Manchester operation as they are doing well with West Midlands and Dundee

[tank90]

McGills? - They caught everyone out when they bought Arriva Scotland so could surprise everyone

Erm I don't think they will be buying much till the court case with Transport for Scotland and Caledonian Marine Assets Ltd plus CalMac over two new ferries being built on the Clyde by Jim McColl's ships building arm Ferguson Marine. Jim McColl will be looking more at that and his future relationship with the SNP than what his buses group McGill's is going to buy next.

[j789]

Was the old Beeline company part of First Manchester as didn't West Midlands Travel own that at one point?

[Tony]

Was the old Beeline company part of First Manchester as didn't West Midlands Travel own that at one point?

No, and no.

I think it was set up by British Bus which eventually ended up as part of Arriva

[j789]

No, and no.

I think it was set up by British Bus which eventually ended up as part of Arriva

Oh ok, I have seen pictures of WMT Metrobuses running for them on loan so thought they might be connected, unless I have confused the company (defiantly a yellow livery!)

[D10]

Oh ok, I have seen pictures of WMT Metrobuses running for them on loan so thought they might be connected, unless I have confused the company (defiantly a yellow livery!)

Yes, it was Bee Line, WMT did loan Metrobuses to them in the 90's, but they were never part of the same group.

[Tony]

Oh ok, I have seen pictures of WMT Metrobuses running for them on loan so thought they might be connected, unless I have confused the company (defiantly a yellow livery!)

West Midlands Travel hired them nearly 50 Metrobuses in the late 1980s which is where you are getting that from. WMT had quite a big hire business going on at the time. When the Metrobuses returned WMT sold them about 50 Leyland nationals

[winston]

Has NX got a potential interest in the Manchester operation as they are doing well with West Midlands and Dundee

NX were interested in 2013 & came close to buying First Wigan amonst others.

Dean Finch publically said he'd be interested in certain parts of First UK Bus. First Manchester lost £5.8million on turnover of £86 million last year, so it needs to be someone who has a good turnaround plan.

[winston]

No, and no.

I think it was set up by British Bus which eventually ended up as part of Arriva

Wasn't Beeline North Western's Manchester business, both operations hired Metrobuses & DAF engined Nationals from WMT.

[Tony]

Wasn't Beeline North Western's Manchester business, both operations hired Metrobuses & DAF engined Nationals from WMT.

Bee Line was a brand new set up using a fleet of yellow sherpa minibuses, this was later merged into North Western, but the Manchester part kept the BeeLine name from the minibus days

[mikestone]

I don't see that DB trying to sell Arriva is necessarily a reason not to buy the first operation, as it would strengthen one of their weaker areas, assuming they think that first's poor performance in the area is down to mismanagement rather than systemic.
;
On the other hand I can't see why anyone would want to buy Manchester operators when franchising might leave them with nothing.

[winston]

I don't see that DB trying to sell Arriva is necessarily a reason not to buy the first operation, as it would strengthen one of their weaker areas, assuming they think that first's poor performance in the area is down to mismanagement rather than systemic.
;
On the other hand I can't see why anyone would want to buy Manchester operators when franchising might leave them with nothing.

No, but Arriva already wanted to exit Manchester themselves, so no point buying more.

Buying in to Manchester would also give new operators a base to exp asnd from.

Additionally, bus operators are pushing for the Quality Partnership route as per WM

https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/alternative-offer-for-mayors-manchester-plan/

[Ian Hardy]

RATP who have just bought, rather randomly, NAT in South Wales, so may be looking to expand in the UK.

RATP did not buy NAT, it was Comfort Delgro the owners of Metroline:

https://www.comfortdelgro.com/documents/20143/35559/ComfortDelGro+to+Expand+Footprint+to+Wales.pdf

Ian Hardy

[winston]

RATP did not buy NAT, it was Comfort Delgro the owners of Metroline:

https://www.comfortdelgro.com/documents/20143/35559/ComfortDelGro+to+Expand+Footprint+to+Wales.pdf

Ian Hardy

RAPT do however own Selwyn's, Runcorn which opetate bus & coaches within GM.