First in big trouble

[tank90]

First is in big trouble I think. How did I get to this conclusion well its simple really, the average age of fleets in the Midlands Essex Kernow Devon Wessex are pritty low which means First will have to spend Millions to sort it out. What is the quick soloution? Well lease the London Fleet off like Stagecoach do and then transfer all the London Buses out in to areas that need new buses.

[sconehead85]

tank90-  I think you mean the average age of the fleets you mention is too HIGH, rather than low.

First must NOT get rid of its London fleet as it needs to cascade to solve the problem of an ageing fleet, and LEASING will only bring about the shambles that Transdev is in now, whereby mid-life buses get sent back and has sixty step entry vehicles to replace before 2017.

First as I have said elsewhere hangs on to elderly buses when they should be replacing them- they could easily be down to just Volvo Olympians as step buses but look  at Potteries Newcastle fleet.
There are over fifty step Darts in the West Country.

First has improved but theyve got to get their skates on if they are to reach the DDA deadlines.

sconehead85

[CRP2012]

tank90-  I think you mean the average age of the fleets you mention is too HIGH, rather than low.

First must NOT get rid of its London fleet as it needs to cascade to solve the problem of an ageing fleet, and LEASING will only bring about the shambles that Transdev is in now, whereby mid-life buses get sent back and has sixty step entry vehicles to replace before 2017.

First as I have said elsewhere hangs on to elderly buses when they should be replacing them- they could easily be down to just Volvo Olympians as step buses but look  at Potteries Newcastle fleet.
There are over fifty step Darts in the West Country.

First has improved but theyve got to get their skates on if they are to reach the DDA deadlines.

sconehead85

1)Transdev arnt in shambles,there slowly starting to replace/withdraw Olympians plus the "mid life buses" what have been sent back to leasers couldnt of been used for school services anyway

2) i agree about no leasing,but i think firstbus could do with buying more second hand,theres currently 2001 > 2005 Volvo B7TLs with either ALX400 Or wright gemini bodys what firstbus operate many of both,is there a reason firstbus wont buy second hand more often?,i mean they bought loads of Volvo Olympians Ex-Stagecoach London & a few ex-Veolia buses

[sconehead85]

CRP-  Transdev ARE presiding over a shambles, because they are only leasing new buses and sending mid-life buses back, leaving them with a polarised fleet, either new/nearly new or very old.
They wil have to revert to buying new buses to specifically replace older vehicles if they are to meet the DDA deadlines.  New buses could displace the next oldest to take over the school work.
Mid-life buses should be bought off lease until the fleet is DDA compliant.  And dont forget the Leyland Olympians were themselves "mid-life" in 1995!

BACK TO FIRST - First needs to purchase about 30 used LF dds so as to replace the non-Volvo Olympian fleet.

sconehead85

[CRP2012]

CRP-  Transdev ARE presiding over a shambles, because they are only leasing new buses and sending mid-life buses back, leaving them with a polarised fleet, either new/nearly new or very old.
They wil have to revert to buying new buses to specifically replace older vehicles if they are to meet the DDA deadlines.  New buses could displace the next oldest to take over the school work.
Mid-life buses should be bought off lease until the fleet is DDA compliant.  And dont forget the Leyland Olympians were themselves "mid-life" in 1995!

BACK TO FIRST - First needs to purchase about 30 used LF dds so as to replace the non-Volvo Olympian fleet.

sconehead85

Well most of transdevs Public Services are DAA Compliant & they seem to be reducing there school services what use olympians - plus like i said there slowly getting ex-london stock.Im sure theyve got long term plans for what to do

Anyway,With Firstbus - theyve got around 25 Ex-Jersey Transbus/SCC Darts so that should be the minibus fleet all low floor,All together i think around 70 DAA Compliant Double Deckers to fully replace All Step entrance/Low Floor & Non-DAA Buses if you also count the number of new DDs due.Also it looks like first might have to buy second hand as its now rumored to have sold London (nothing confirmed as of yet).I Think firstbus could do with starting to buy bigger batches of buses from the likes of Ensign or from Leasers.Im actully surprised they never went for Some of the ex-dublin 2000 Alx400s - same age,same chassis & same body but no doubt in better nick!

[winston]

First is in big trouble I think. How did I get to this conclusion well its simple really, the average age of fleets in the Midlands Essex Kernow Devon Wessex are pritty low which means First will have to spend Millions to sort it out. What is the quick soloution? Well lease the London Fleet off like Stagecoach do and then transfer all the London Buses out in to areas that need new buses.

First's East of England fleet is currently been updated as follows:

15 x Enviro 200's  (Chelmsford)
4 x ADL Enviro 350 Hybrids (Chemsford)
19 x Volvo 7900 Hybrids (Basildon)
22 x ADL E400 (Route X1 @ Kings Lynn)
12 x Volvo B7RLE/Wright 05 plate ex Wyvern 66976-66987 (Colchester) only 66981 & 66987 still to move
plus further ex London Tridents

Bristol are also due a sizeable batch of Wrightbus Streetlites to allow step entrance Darts to be withdrawn

[Cedric]

CRP-  Transdev ARE presiding over a shambles, because they are only leasing new buses and sending mid-life buses back, leaving them with a polarised fleet, either new/nearly new or very old.
They wil have to revert to buying new buses to specifically replace older vehicles if they are to meet the DDA deadlines.  New buses could displace the next oldest to take over the school work.
Mid-life buses should be bought off lease until the fleet is DDA compliant.  And dont forget the Leyland Olympians were themselves "mid-life" in 1995!

BACK TO FIRST - First needs to purchase about 30 used LF dds so as to replace the non-Volvo Olympian fleet.

sconehead85

Well most of transdevs Public Services are DAA Compliant & they seem to be reducing there school services what use olympians - plus like i said there slowly getting ex-london stock.Im sure theyve got long term plans for what to do

Anyway,With Firstbus - theyve got around 25 Ex-Jersey Transbus/SCC Darts so that should be the minibus fleet all low floor,All together i think around 70 DAA Compliant Double Deckers to fully replace All Step entrance/Low Floor & Non-DAA Buses if you also count the number of new DDs due.Also it looks like first might have to buy second hand as its now rumored to have sold London (nothing confirmed as of yet).I Think firstbus could do with starting to buy bigger batches of buses from the likes of Ensign or from Leasers.Im actully surprised they never went for Some of the ex-dublin 2000 Alx400s - same age,same chassis & same body but no doubt in better nick!

and of the ex jersey 6 are suppose to be going to fmr

[CRP2012]

First is in big trouble I think. How did I get to this conclusion well its simple really, the average age of fleets in the Midlands Essex Kernow Devon Wessex are pritty low which means First will have to spend Millions to sort it out. What is the quick soloution? Well lease the London Fleet off like Stagecoach do and then transfer all the London Buses out in to areas that need new buses.

First's East of England fleet is currently been updated as follows:

15 x Enviro 200's  (Chelmsford)
4 x ADL Enviro 350 Hybrids (Chemsford)
19 x Volvo 7900 Hybrids (Basildon)
22 x ADL E400 (Route X1 @ Kings Lynn)
12 x Volvo B7RLE/Wright 05 plate ex Wyvern 66976-66987 (Colchester) only 66981 & 66987 still to move
plus further ex London Tridents

Bristol are also due a sizeable batch of Wrightbus Streetlites to allow step entrance Darts to be withdrawn

Plus Somerset & Avon Are getting Ex-London Wright Geminis to get allow Volvo Olympians move to Devon & Cornwall - also the 22x E400 For X1,I Think your meaning Volvo B9TL/Wright Geminis

[sconehead85]

First need 300 double deckers to go fully LF.  They are jiggered if they sell their London operation as this is what has stopped First from being in deeper doo-doo than they are now regarding fleet modernisation.  Bristol/West Country need a huge injection to clear out step Darts, but once the step Darts and Lances are cleared out they've got to turn to replacing the vast fleet of pre-2000 LF single decks that are still running.

sconehead85

[winston]

22x E400 For X1,I Think your meaning Volvo B9TL/Wright Geminis

No, Kings Lynn are due 22 brand new ADL Enviro 400 for the X1 (from the batch of 42 on order) to release the current 17 x 58 plate Volvo B9TL/Gemini's on less demanding work.

First Group don't have on Volvo B9TLs on order

[winston]

First need 300 double deckers to go fully LF.  They are jiggered if they sell their London operation as this is what has stopped First from being in deeper doo-doo than they are now regarding fleet modernisation.  Bristol/West Country need a huge injection to clear out step Darts, but once the step Darts and Lances are cleared out they've got to turn to replacing the vast fleet of pre-2000 LF single decks that are still running.

sconehead85

Selling the London operation would impact less on group profits than one of a similar value in a deregulated market/ex PTE area which should earn them higher profits margins than London does. The supply of midlife buses for cascade could be replaced by acquiring batches of former ex London buses that have come to the end of their lease, more operators seem to be choosing to lease buses for London work these days.....
First may still have to launch a rights issue to pay down a big chunk of debt even if they do reach the £100million disposal target. WCML option in now well & truly out of the window for the next 4 years

[sconehead85]

They had to raise the £100 million by TOMORROW!  I think theyd be best keeping their London fleet and also its very difficult to see who would be in a position to buy large chunks of First due to the asking price.  First want and desperately need top dollar for anything they sell, so no small fry need apply.

sconehead85

[winston]

They had to raise the £100 million by TOMORROW!  I think theyd be best keeping their London fleet and also its very difficult to see who would be in a position to buy large chunks of First due to the asking price.  First want and desperately need top dollar for anything they sell, so no small fry need apply.

sconehead85

The date they set themselves was by 31st March i.e. year end, but in the half year results announcement they also stated that they had indentified a way of raising the balance but were in no rush and would wait for the right deal, which gives them the excuse for disposals to run over year end & beyond.

Go-Ahead & NX Group & possibly Arriva wouldn't have any problem raising the funds to buy anything tasty First were looking to sell or any real competition concerns from the Oft, opportunities are few & far between for any of the above to significantly expand their UK bus businesses. I think Stagecoach can be ruled out though, due to its dominance in the UK bus market & operating the same or adjacent areas to First's major operations

[CRP2012]

22x E400 For X1,I Think your meaning Volvo B9TL/Wright Geminis

No, Kings Lynn are due 22 brand new ADL Enviro 400 for the X1 (from the batch of 42 on order) to release the current 17 x 58 plate Volvo B9TL/Gemini's on less demanding work.

First Group don't have on Volvo B9TLs on order

sorry i didnt know about E400 On order,my mistake as i mis-read your comment  :-[

if i was first i`d get rid of london & slowly buy Second hand buses untill around 6-12 month before DDA Deadline,then when the price lowers get aload cheap & done & dusted - theyve got ample time.

Also most if not all of the Dennis Lancs have been withdrawn from Somerset & Avon & Alot of olympians have been withdrawn.Devon & Cornwall they couldnt even manage to sell for a decent asking price so i could see them just axing & letting other operaters pick up the pieces,Cymru is almost fully DAA Apart from some Early Low Floor Darts/1 Step Entrance but the latest orders should see that sorted.For WY They can just easily give up a few school services to withdraw there olympians - same for manchester,South Yorkshire are due Around 50 Streetlites what will go towards getting rid of the Olympians,First Glasgow have only got 1 PS Left in service,a few Early Low Floor Darts & i think a few Olympians left? but cutbacks at cumbernauld should help that.

Another thing of cause is what 2014/15/16 orders are,for all we know Firstbus might order 300 DDs & 200 SDs next year! (highly unlikely i know)

[Tony]

First throw several thousand pounds away every year. A good example is fleetnumber 61353 (L206 KSX) a driver trainer at Oldham, retaxed for 12 months in January this year (£220), sold to PVS for scrap in February this year without claiming the unused VED back. so £200 wasted.

I could find you a couple of hundred vehicles First have done that with recently, some were even retaxed after they were last used at £400!