select bus

[Solo1]

On Saturday what if you want to travel from Stafford to wolves 

[John]

On Saturday what if you want to travel from Stafford to wolves

You use the train

[BK63 YWP]

On Saturday what if you want to travel from Stafford to wolves

Train? Quicker and more per hour with Avanti, Cross Country and LNWR.

Covid has hit buses hard and select aren't going to run a bus for a loss. If it's funded by Staffordshire cc then it's up to them how they want the service to run.

Even before covid hit Arriva and National Express both tried to run it and it's just not profitable

[Westy]

Train? Quicker and more per hour with Avanti, Cross Country and LNWR.

Covid has hit buses hard and select aren't going to run a bus for a loss. If it's funded by Staffordshire cc then it's up to them how they want the service to run.

Even before covid hit Arriva and National Express both tried to run it and it's just not profitable

They only ran via Coven didn't they,  not Brewood.

[IMarkeh]

Remember this is the Staffs countryside they serve, not the middle of Brum. Each trip has to stand up on its own two feet.

Looking at it, there is 1 bus doing the Wolves to Brewood shorts with a hour break for lunch at 1330hrs, with the other doing a pair of 877 circulars and the 878 circulars on a Saturday, allowing for connections at Brewood/Coven to Wolves

Makes perfect sense.

I don't just mean the Saturdays, the 877/878 is a mess in general. Seems to try and serve so many different markets that you firstly end up with a wildly different School Day, School Holiday and now Saturday timetable.

I'm sure that with 2 buses, something different could have been come up with. As a bus operator, you should certainly not be happy looking at that timetable and thinking that is acceptable for passengers. Passengers want and need simple timetables. That is how you encourage people onto your buses. Some existing passengers may love it but the reality is, if you want anyone to get onto a bus, that timetable is not the way to do it. You give that to some people in some of the villages and ask 'does this timetable encourage you to use the bus', they'll think you are having them on. It's no wonder the bus struggles to get loads of passengers on, no one knows when their bus comes. Throw some darts at a map and that is where the bus will serve. Roll some dice to get departure times.

I fully, fully agree with trips being viable or keeping costs low and that side of things makes perfect sense but this isn't that. This is making an operationally convenient timetable and expecting passengers to work with that. Not creating a passenger focussed timetable with at least some consistency. You go to any half credible person in the industry and ask them if that looks acceptable for passengers, you'll be laughed at. There are cowboy operators who can come up with better timetables and that is saying something.

[Steveminor]

It's not a core city service you know it's a rural service designed to keep rural communities connected which in my opinion & since it's been running so long it does well.
If you think you can do a better job then apply for your own discs buy some buses & give it a go yourself.

[Tony]

I don't just mean the Saturdays, the 877/878 is a mess in general. Seems to try and serve so many different markets that you firstly end up with a wildly different School Day, School Holiday and now Saturday timetable.

I'm sure that with 2 buses, something different could have been come up with. As a bus operator, you should certainly not be happy looking at that timetable and thinking that is acceptable for passengers. Passengers want and need simple timetables. That is how you encourage people onto your buses. Some existing passengers may love it but the reality is, if you want anyone to get onto a bus, that timetable is not the way to do it. You give that to some people in some of the villages and ask 'does this timetable encourage you to use the bus', they'll think you are having them on. It's no wonder the bus struggles to get loads of passengers on, no one knows when their bus comes. Throw some darts at a map and that is where the bus will serve. Roll some dice to get departure times.

I fully, fully agree with trips being viable or keeping costs low and that side of things makes perfect sense but this isn't that. This is making an operationally convenient timetable and expecting passengers to work with that. Not creating a passenger focussed timetable with at least some consistency. You go to any half credible person in the industry and ask them if that looks acceptable for passengers, you'll be laughed at. There are cowboy operators who can come up with better timetables and that is saying something.

The owner reads this forum, so you could just draw up a better timetable using the same resources and offer it to Mr Brown. I am sure he would be grateful

[Westy]

I'd be interested to know, since Select & Chaserider started doing joint timetable leaflets, whether there's more awareness of Select's operations now?

[Kevin]

I don't just mean the Saturdays, the 877/878 is a mess in general. Seems to try and serve so many different markets that you firstly end up with a wildly different School Day, School Holiday and now Saturday timetable.

I'm sure that with 2 buses, something different could have been come up with. As a bus operator, you should certainly not be happy looking at that timetable and thinking that is acceptable for passengers. Passengers want and need simple timetables. That is how you encourage people onto your buses. Some existing passengers may love it but the reality is, if you want anyone to get onto a bus, that timetable is not the way to do it. You give that to some people in some of the villages and ask 'does this timetable encourage you to use the bus', they'll think you are having them on. It's no wonder the bus struggles to get loads of passengers on, no one knows when their bus comes. Throw some darts at a map and that is where the bus will serve. Roll some dice to get departure times.

I fully, fully agree with trips being viable or keeping costs low and that side of things makes perfect sense but this isn't that. This is making an operationally convenient timetable and expecting passengers to work with that. Not creating a passenger focussed timetable with at least some consistency. You go to any half credible person in the industry and ask them if that looks acceptable for passengers, you'll be laughed at. There are cowboy operators who can come up with better timetables and that is saying something.

Sadly, long gone are the days where rural busses run to be convenient, they only run to provide a service. Not many companies could run a service in those sort of areas to encourage people to use the bus, maybe some of the bigger operators could manage but even NXWM and Arriva struggled there and had to rely on funding.

I agree it could be better, but in my book that would involve full integration with all public transport and more frequent connections for villages to the train (in these cases likely Penkridge, for example)

[IMarkeh]

The owner reads this forum, so you could just draw up a better timetable using the same resources and offer it to Mr Brown. I am sure he would be grateful

Would it be taken onboard though? That is the big thing. No point in me wasting hours making a simpler timetable for it to then do nothing and go no where.

Sadly, long gone are the days where rural busses run to be convenient, they only run to provide a service. Not many companies could run a service in those sort of areas to encourage people to use the bus, maybe some of the bigger operators could manage but even NXWM and Arriva struggled there and had to rely on funding.

I agree it could be better, but in my book that would involve full integration with all public transport and more frequent connections for villages to the train (in these cases likely Penkridge, for example)

It's not about an extra bus, running the routes hourly or being non stop etc. They are rural and so they come with complications to serve areas. You aren't going to get millions on the bus by making a simple timetable, I get that. Simplifying it though will encourage more people to use the service.

I think what does it is the schools meaning buses go wildly off route and the inclusion of some, what would be, dead mileage trips, which make the timetable look significantly more complex than it needs to. Some school day/holiday variation happens and people get that. It's how different things are though.
Saturdays probably due to the tender, they look a mess but as an operator, surely you should see that and try to rework the timetable provided to make it work better overall for passengers.

[Brick60000]

It's not a core city service you know it's a rural service designed to keep rural communities connected which in my opinion & since it's been running so long it does well.
If you think you can do a better job then apply for your own discs buy some buses & give it a go yourself.

I'm with the other view point on this - it's this attitude towards passengers that is exactly why people don't use bus.

The 877/878 timetable are in no way passenger friendly. Yes, it's a rural service, and if there's no desire for growth, then fine. But a timetable formatted like that with no other PR/marketing isn't going to do anything to encourage people on to the bus. Even keeping the existing timetable - a lot could be done to present the information more professionally and more legibly to anybody not accustomed to bus.

Select's buses are always very smartly turned out - they could work wonders if this was reflected in the presentation of passenger information across the board  :-)

[Steveminor]

The Saturday service is Tendered & looking at the timetable even though I dont know the area I can see the 877 & 878 are designed to drop you off on the way back for the other route maximising the carrying potential for 1 bus

[Brick60000]

The Saturday service is Tendered & looking at the timetable even though I dont know the area I can see the 877 & 878 are designed to drop you off on the way back for the other route maximising the carrying potential for 1 bus

And we can see that, as people with an interest in / knowledge of bus. But what the industry as a whole does a poor job of realising, understanding or enacting, is that the average member of public does not. They want an easy, convenient, reliable and straightforward service to get them where they want to go. Operational convenience is of zero relevance to most customers.

Operational convenience is vital for longevity, but marketing & PR can and should be done in such a way that disguises this in a package that suits the above market.

[Tony]

And we can see that, as people with an interest in / knowledge of bus. But what the industry as a whole does a poor job of realising, understanding or enacting, is that the average member of public does not. They want an easy, convenient, reliable and straightforward service to get them where they want to go. Operational convenience is of zero relevance to most customers.

Operational convenience is vital for longevity, but marketing & PR can and should be done in such a way that disguises this in a package that suits the above market.

There's a difference between operational convenience where a timetable has an uneven service just so one driver stays on the same route and needs a break, and operational necessity where it would cost an extra bus and kill the service altogether

[Steveminor]

What people also forget is that these services have had a 100% increase on the previous Saturday service.