Competetion in the Midlands

[PM]

I always think the 4 (404E) is diamonds 'showcase' service as it had originally the centro's before going to wessex and branded for the 002 and 50 and the mcv's after. This is shown by the extra cleaners being put on to the 4 service by centro at West Brom to ensure the buses leaving the bus station are spotless so showing a bit of investment in a partnership with centro. Even now the 4 has over 10 year old dart on it with around 4/5 cadets on per day, i will hate to see how many breakdowns will occur when the weather start warming up as the buses have hardly any breaks when on the 4H and 4M and the cadets aren't brilliant when the sun comes out. With the 16 and 50 if they want to increase passenger numbers they need extra buses on the service 5 centro on the 50 and 6 hybrids on the 16 is too little when compared to all of NXWM vehicles with the addition on GRS and Green buses on the 16 and 50 respectively. The 40/42/43 are key local services for diamond they can get very busy at times and even thought the darts are over 10 years old they have the capacity needed where the solos and shorter darts are useless and get full far too quickly. Also if they want to increase passenger usage get the diamond returns advertised on the buses if their cheaper than NXWM get people to know that diamond offer return tickets, also haven't got a clue why they have brought an odd enviro 200 they might aswell as just put the 54 eclipse they have for sale into the fleet and not brought the enviro 200, must say thought the wessex red fleet is brilliant and the livery is superb. The same thing is happening with Preston thought they still have old olympian deckers and leyland lynx still in use when some of the older darts from blue diamond which are parked at Tividale could have transferred up there to replace these.

I think the reason preston have kept olympians is because for the next round of green bus funding, special consideration will be given to operators running pre euro1 i think buses provided they go for scrap so this is clearly what rotala's plan is

[Ash]

OK thanks for the reason Peter123, because they could of got rid of the pre euro1 buses ages ago but now it makes sense.

[Tony]

I always think the 4 (404E) is diamonds 'showcase' service as it had originally the centro's before going to wessex and branded for the 002 and 50 and the mcv's after. This is shown by the extra cleaners being put on to the 4 service by centro at West Brom to ensure the buses leaving the bus station are spotless so showing a bit of investment in a partnership with centro. Even now the 4 has over 10 year old dart on it with around 4/5 cadets on per day, i will hate to see how many breakdowns will occur when the weather start warming up as the buses have hardly any breaks when on the 4H and 4M and the cadets aren't brilliant when the sun comes out. With the 16 and 50 if they want to increase passenger numbers they need extra buses on the service 5 centro on the 50 and 6 hybrids on the 16 is too little when compared to all of NXWM vehicles with the addition on GRS and Green buses on the 16 and 50 respectively. The 40/42/43 are key local services for diamond they can get very busy at times and even thought the darts are over 10 years old they have the capacity needed where the solos and shorter darts are useless and get full far too quickly. Also if they want to increase passenger usage get the diamond returns advertised on the buses if their cheaper than NXWM get people to know that diamond offer return tickets, also haven't got a clue why they have brought an odd enviro 200 they might aswell as just put the 54 eclipse they have for sale into the fleet and not brought the enviro 200, must say thought the wessex red fleet is brilliant and the livery is superb. The same thing is happening with Preston thought they still have old olympian deckers and leyland lynx still in use when some of the older darts from blue diamond which are parked at Tividale could have transferred up there to replace these.

The Enviro 200 is not alone, there is another in Long Acre now!

[winston]

About buying diamond......
Decourcey wouldnt take the risk and also risk upsetting national express.
Arriva wouldnt have the clout
Go-Ahead have already had their fingers burnt and only seem able to run buses when tendered or with networks designed by TAS-unfair, but true
First are clueless
Stagecoach know what they are doing and look at south yorkshire-tracky used to be a bit all over the place lets face it and first wiped the floor on them. Now the tables are turning
Unfortunately, stagecoach seems to have its sights constantly set on WMT as opposed to anything else.

I hope rotala dont sell. I for one think they are an interesting and innovative group. I would just like them to occasionally show a bit more business nouse and compete better and innovate even more. Having said that, overall I far prefer them to arriva/first/national express. No, bob I dont think arriva will successfully expand. After the initial tendering success, nothing more seems to have come of it and arriva are bad at running businesses when they have a monopoly let alone anything else-colchester's a good example.

Rotala WM business is far bigger than the De Courcey business, therefore its unlikely that De Courcey could finance a takeover of that scale. However, I agree De Courcey seem to be well in with NX these days, I could see NX may be acquiring De Courcey / or buying a stake in the business in the future if/when Mike De Courcey decides to retire, NX may get away with a deal in Coventry with the MMC due to a number of competing operators being active in the area.

I think what if anything that Arriva do with Midland business once the deal is cleared / Midland is absorbed in to the existing Arriva Midlands business will dictate how aggressive Arriva may / may not be in expanding in the West Midlands.

Stagecoach are not interested in anything other than NXWM, they have had numerous opportunities to set-up in the West Midlands but don't seem interested

[PM]

This is in response to the things people have posted.
First, I agree with proposals to upgrade key routes and advertise returns-both good ideas.
Secondly, Id have thought that £11 million would buy a fair few new buses
Also, you have to invest to improve profitability and this is what i think rotala should do.
I would say that rotala have been rationalising its network as opposed to the network being in decline.
And the reason about preston keeping its olympians is just my speculation-nothing official or probably even worthwhile I just posted it to float it as a possibility.

[Westy]

Other operators probably have more of a foothold in the Black Country than elsewhere.  Diamond have a strong presence on the 4 and the 301 particularly, and don't forget Hansons in the Dudley area.  Banga also run on several services in Wolverhampton.

Banga fit into the category with Travel Express, VIP and Sandwell Travel, who are more likely to have their licenses removed than they are to expand.

But to be honest, after buying 4 Solos from NX, they bought another recently, so they must have plans as they're not much newer than the buses that they have.
They could however be looking to go low floor soon, but that sounds unlikely.

I'm sure I read somewhere there was some sort of rule preventing NX buses from being sold to a rival local operator, or did I imagine it?

[Ash]

I always think the 4 (404E) is diamonds 'showcase' service as it had originally the centro's before going to wessex and branded for the 002 and 50 and the mcv's after. This is shown by the extra cleaners being put on to the 4 service by centro at West Brom to ensure the buses leaving the bus station are spotless so showing a bit of investment in a partnership with centro. Even now the 4 has over 10 year old dart on it with around 4/5 cadets on per day, i will hate to see how many breakdowns will occur when the weather start warming up as the buses have hardly any breaks when on the 4H and 4M and the cadets aren't brilliant when the sun comes out. With the 16 and 50 if they want to increase passenger numbers they need extra buses on the service 5 centro on the 50 and 6 hybrids on the 16 is too little when compared to all of NXWM vehicles with the addition on GRS and Green buses on the 16 and 50 respectively. The 40/42/43 are key local services for diamond they can get very busy at times and even thought the darts are over 10 years old they have the capacity needed where the solos and shorter darts are useless and get full far too quickly. Also if they want to increase passenger usage get the diamond returns advertised on the buses if their cheaper than NXWM get people to know that diamond offer return tickets, also haven't got a clue why they have brought an odd enviro 200 they might aswell as just put the 54 eclipse they have for sale into the fleet and not brought the enviro 200, must say thought the wessex red fleet is brilliant and the livery is superb. The same thing is happening with Preston thought they still have old olympian deckers and leyland lynx still in use when some of the older darts from blue diamond which are parked at Tividale could have transferred up there to replace these.

The Enviro 200 is not alone, there is another in Long Acre now!

Is this one for black diamond as well or staying at blue diamond, also does anyone know whats happening to all the blue diamond darts parked up at tividale across the road.

[Bob]

If Chase is anything to go by I wouldnt think Arriva will have any impact at all, how many Ex-Chase routes are still running? 2? One of which Arriva already competed on...

[4006]

[/quote]

I agree with you Ash. Rotala have just had another £11 million pound loan so surely time for some investment in the WM region. They need to buy good solid reliable buses-not optares or stuff they dont want and just buy because its going cheap. They could also do well to transfer the centros from wessex back to birmingham and replace the buses in bristol if only the operations there can justify new buses. They also need to buy at least one solid money making operation-like wigan was-to bring in some cash. They also need to have managers out watching the 50 and 16 and why they dont make as much money as they should do. They need to repaint a few more centros into the nifty livery-the ovs centro and the pzh one as well and fight hard to try to get greenbus off the route.
[/quote]

They could start the investment by incorporating some strategic plan to effectively number their fleet and repaint their buses accordingly so people could understand what they actually are and which company they belong to! A Blue Diamond E200 in Willenhall today I ask ya! people must of thought 'whats that'..'which company runs that then'..'I wonder if that one goes to Bilston?' I mean even I don't know just shocked to see a blue bus in Willenhall lol!

[JoNi]

What about Joe and his nippy Darts, used to enjoy charging up through Handsworth in one of his ex-Brighton Darts before he was seen off from Brum city centre by the environmentalists!

[Steveminor]

To be honest I can't see there being any serious competition against NXWM until the unfairness surrounding their travel card is resolved. Yes I know there is the Nbus but, well here's an example: my wife was offered a deal on a bus pass by her employer where they would purchase an annual bus pass and deduct the cost directly from her wages. When she asked if it was an Nbus they told her "no we will only do that on the west midlands travel card". Likewise some job centres will give people scratch card day savers to attend job interviews, but not Nbus scratch cards . NXWM has it too cushy with lots of local "protection" . This is the kind of thing the competition commission should have been looking into but they didn't , I wonder why?

[richie]

To be honest I can't see there being any serious competition against NXWM until the unfairness surrounding their travel card is resolved. Yes I know there is the Nbus but, well here's an example: my wife was offered a deal on a bus pass by her employer where they would purchase an annual bus pass and deduct the cost directly from her wages. When she asked if it was an Nbus they told her "no we will only do that on the west midlands travel card". Likewise some job centres will give people scratch card day savers to attend job interviews, but not Nbus scratch cards . NXWM has it too cushy with lots of local "protection" . This is the kind of thing the competition commission should have been looking into but they didn't , I wonder why?

Or NX compete better than centro with offers to employers and the job centre. I get employes using NX corporate passes as NX has sales reps that go out to business to strike these deals where as centro possibly don't but what is seriously flawed is the job centre a government agency paid by uk tax use NX products when centro Also a government agency majority funded by council tax and central tax.

[PM]

What about Joe and his nippy Darts, used to enjoy charging up through Handsworth in one of his ex-Brighton Darts before he was seen off from Brum city centre by the environmentalists!

Haha I agree. I used to enjoy Travel Express darts as well and I dont see why they have that silly requirement for buses entering the city centre-the older buses are just used elsewhere so in terms of helping the planet-zilch!
I agree the travelcard is extremely unfair but dont forget if the conservatives had had what they wanted and split wmt then the travelcard would not have directly passed to wmt and birmingham would be more like manchester. I agree with Steveminor-the competition comission didnt really look into very much by the sounds of it-tho its worth typing in rotala on their website-you get some interesting stuff!!

[j789]

Some rather odd suggestions! How is the travel card unfair? It has been developed over decades to gain the loyalty it has. Nat Ex are a private company and have used it to their advantage. I cannot see the point of an Nbus pass as pretty much every area has a decent Nat Ex service so that is why most people buy a travelcard. Why would you spend more simply on the off chance that a clapped out dart from another operator turns up 3 minutes before a Nat Ex? The joint train, metro and bus pass is a different matter as it has a useful function.
Another reason why people are loyal to Nat Ex may be to do with the fact they know that pretty much all their routes will still be in existence next year and the year after etc whereas companies like Diamond etc chop and change their routes so often that no loyalty can be built up (except the 16, 50,56 etc).

[winston]

I would say that rotala have been rationalising its network as opposed to the network being in decline.

I'm not sure so Rotala are rationalising their network, if that was the case it's been an ongoing project for the last few years, the number of commercial services against NXWM have reduced significantly over the past few years, the latest casualties being the 37 & 97 which were established services that date back to Pete's Travel days. This suggests that either Blue Diamond haven't operated them effectively resulting in falling passenger numbers or NXWM have increased competition along these routes, with Rotala failing to respond & simply giving up or a combination of both.

Since the marketing manager left Black Diamond, new brandings have ceased (the last being the double-0-2) & a number of brandings have been lost with the sale of the MAN/MCV's to Oz. Following Scott Dunn's departure to concentrate on his Yourbus business, he also took Stephen Bryce with him (Former Ops manager) Diamond appear to have just given up and lost their fight, the operation certainly doesn't have the air of quality the Rotala Plc website will lead you to believe...... the last new buses Diamond had were the Hybrid Versa's, but they didn't seem to have any plan when they were delivered/entered service on where they were going to be used