Diamond Bus - Discussion

[winston]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

[PM]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

[Cedric]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

I  agree with you Winston  they must have had feedback from the oft. how many ex first buses have been repainted  I know of only one in Kidderminster and none in Redditch 

[NXWM Spectra]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

Is this the same thing that's already been put back a few months or is it something different I'm thinking of?

[PM]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

Is this the same thing that's already been put back a few months or is it something different I'm thinking of?

In fairness, I think this is the first time the deadline has been put back but still must be irritating for all involved at rotala when they want to get involved and give redditch and kidderminster the high quality service they deserve

[winston]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

[winston]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

I  agree with you Winston  they must have had feedback from the oft. how many ex first buses have been repainted  I know of only one in Kidderminster and none in Redditch

There's the one 54 plate ex First Dart at KR, did one of RH's E300's not get repainted blue prior to the Oft undertakings? or was this a mis-report?

[Cedric]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

I  agree with you Winston  they must have had feedback from the oft. how many ex first buses have been repainted  I know of only one in Kidderminster and none in Redditch

There's the one 54 plate ex First Dart at KR, did one of RH's E300's not get repainted blue prior to the Oft undertakings? or was this a mis-report?

have not heard of a e300 being repaint   the dart is 30932  as  yesterday still  not fleet name on  sides  all other lettering and fleet number on 

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

I  agree with you Winston  they must have had feedback from the oft. how many ex first buses have been repainted  I know of only one in Kidderminster and none in Redditch

There's the one 54 plate ex First Dart at KR, did one of RH's E300's not get repainted blue prior to the Oft undertakings? or was this a mis-report?

[PM]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

Oh sorry Winston I got confused cos I was thinking north devon ie first didnt want it and had to shut it down but then they hadnt sold it like rotala sold redditch and kidderminster. There would of course be nothing to stop rotala selling it to someone like Scott Dunn or Yourbus that are not rotala but there are vague links to the organisation and then rotala buying yourbus when all the fuss had died down in a few years time. There must be loads of ways to get around it-yes rotala could sell it having first registered commerically the whole network operated by first so no one would really want to buy it. If say the oft said they had to sell and then rotala registered everything and then no one wanted to buy it, what would actually happen? I'm   sure first that it will go ahead and that if it doesnt, rotala wont go down without a fight

[PM]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

I  agree with you Winston  they must have had feedback from the oft. how many ex first buses have been repainted  I know of only one in Kidderminster and none in Redditch

There's the one 54 plate ex First Dart at KR, did one of RH's E300's not get repainted blue prior to the Oft undertakings? or was this a mis-report?

have not heard of a e300 being repaint   the dart is 30932  as  yesterday still  not fleet name on  sides  all other lettering and fleet number on 

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

I  agree with you Winston  they must have had feedback from the oft. how many ex first buses have been repainted  I know of only one in Kidderminster and none in Redditch

There's the one 54 plate ex First Dart at KR, did one of RH's E300's not get repainted blue prior to the Oft undertakings? or was this a mis-report?

Don't know if any enviro300s have been repainted-maybe not as until recently the plan was to sell them though now rotala have clearly realised they are really good and that selling further long single decks isnt a good idea-better instead to shift those ghastly ex london tridents

[winston]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

Oh sorry Winston I got confused cos I was thinking north devon ie first didnt want it and had to shut it down but then they hadnt sold it like rotala sold redditch and kidderminster. There would of course be nothing to stop rotala selling it to someone like Scott Dunn or Yourbus that are not rotala but there are vague links to the organisation and then rotala buying yourbus when all the fuss had died down in a few years time. There must be loads of ways to get around it-yes rotala could sell it having first registered commerically the whole network operated by first so no one would really want to buy it. If say the oft said they had to sell and then rotala registered everything and then no one wanted to buy it, what would actually happen? I'm   sure first that it will go ahead and that if it doesnt, rotala wont go down without a fight

Its not going to work like that either, if Rotala are told to sell by the Oft, they will have to sell regardless within the time frame setout by the Oft, they certainly wont be able to register all the former First journey's to reduce the attractiveness to prospective buyers. If no buyers came forward I have no idea what would happen, but there will always be buyers if the price is right.

Where does all this Rotala fight come from? we haven't seen much evidence of 'fight' on the streets of the West Midlands of late

[PM]

A post on another forum, suggests that the Oft decision on the Rotala acquisition of First Groups Redditch & Kidderminster operation has now been put back until 9th August

How stupid is that-tho I think rotala do seem incredibly confident/hopeful-new timetable guides for redditch and kidderminster and more enviros plus some ex first buses repainted.

It does seem that Rotala may have had some feedback from the Oft on the positive front given all the recent activity in Redditch

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

Oh sorry Winston I got confused cos I was thinking north devon ie first didnt want it and had to shut it down but then they hadnt sold it like rotala sold redditch and kidderminster. There would of course be nothing to stop rotala selling it to someone like Scott Dunn or Yourbus that are not rotala but there are vague links to the organisation and then rotala buying yourbus when all the fuss had died down in a few years time. There must be loads of ways to get around it-yes rotala could sell it having first registered commerically the whole network operated by first so no one would really want to buy it. If say the oft said they had to sell and then rotala registered everything and then no one wanted to buy it, what would actually happen? I'm   sure first that it will go ahead and that if it doesnt, rotala wont go down without a fight

Its not going to work like that either, if Rotala are told to sell by the Oft, they will have to sell regardless within the time frame setout by the Oft, they certainly wont be able to register all the former First journey's to reduce the attractiveness to prospective buyers. If no buyers came forward I have no idea what would happen, but there will always be buyers if the price is right.

Where does all this Rotala fight come from? we haven't seen much evidence of 'fight' on the streets of the West Midlands of late

My point is that rotala could easily set it at a stupid price so it wouldnt sell and so they will have to keep it and in a deregulated environment they could quite easily register the entire network like stagecoach did when darlington was for sale. That way no one would buy it and the oft would have to back down-it would be quite funny to be honest if the oft could only look and watch. do we honestly think that after what rotala have done in redditch over the past 5 years, they are just going to give in to a bunch of quangos. And yes actually stagecoach did nick a few of preston bus's routes before they sold it

[winston]

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

Oh sorry Winston I got confused cos I was thinking north devon ie first didnt want it and had to shut it down but then they hadnt sold it like rotala sold redditch and kidderminster. There would of course be nothing to stop rotala selling it to someone like Scott Dunn or Yourbus that are not rotala but there are vague links to the organisation and then rotala buying yourbus when all the fuss had died down in a few years time. There must be loads of ways to get around it-yes rotala could sell it having first registered commerically the whole network operated by first so no one would really want to buy it. If say the oft said they had to sell and then rotala registered everything and then no one wanted to buy it, what would actually happen? I'm   sure first that it will go ahead and that if it doesnt, rotala wont go down without a fight

Its not going to work like that either, if Rotala are told to sell by the Oft, they will have to sell regardless within the time frame setout by the Oft, they certainly wont be able to register all the former First journey's to reduce the attractiveness to prospective buyers. If no buyers came forward I have no idea what would happen, but there will always be buyers if the price is right.

Where does all this Rotala fight come from? we haven't seen much evidence of 'fight' on the streets of the West Midlands of late

My point is that rotala could easily set it at a stupid price so it wouldnt sell and so they will have to keep it and in a deregulated environment they could quite easily register the entire network like stagecoach did when darlington was for sale. That way no one would buy it and the oft would have to back down-it would be quite funny to be honest if the oft could only look and watch. do we honestly think that after what rotala have done in redditch over the past 5 years, they are just going to give in to a bunch of quangos. And yes actually stagecoach did nick a few of preston bus's routes before they sold it

I can see where you're coming from, the Darlington example that you're using was a completely different scenario without any Oft intervention. If Rotala made all reasonable attempts to sell the business and no buyers could be found, I'd expect the Oft would have to allow them to keep it, but may impose restrictions on the changes they are allowed to make particularly frequencies & fares. Or they may have to seek approval from the Oft for any future changes that wish to make to the business. I'm not sure on Preston bus as some of the two operators routes had already been absorbed, but Stagecoach would have only been able to keep complementary services

[PM]

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

Oh sorry Winston I got confused cos I was thinking north devon ie first didnt want it and had to shut it down but then they hadnt sold it like rotala sold redditch and kidderminster. There would of course be nothing to stop rotala selling it to someone like Scott Dunn or Yourbus that are not rotala but there are vague links to the organisation and then rotala buying yourbus when all the fuss had died down in a few years time. There must be loads of ways to get around it-yes rotala could sell it having first registered commerically the whole network operated by first so no one would really want to buy it. If say the oft said they had to sell and then rotala registered everything and then no one wanted to buy it, what would actually happen? I'm   sure first that it will go ahead and that if it doesnt, rotala wont go down without a fight
[/quote]

Its not going to work like that either, if Rotala are told to sell by the Oft, they will have to sell regardless within the time frame setout by the Oft, they certainly wont be able to register all the former First journey's to reduce the attractiveness to prospective buyers. If no buyers came forward I have no idea what would happen, but there will always be buyers if the price is right.

Where does all this Rotala fight come from? we haven't seen much evidence of 'fight' on the streets of the West Midlands of late
[/quote]

My point is that rotala could easily set it at a stupid price so it wouldnt sell and so they will have to keep it and in a deregulated environment they could quite easily register the entire network like stagecoach did when darlington was for sale. That way no one would buy it and the oft would have to back down-it would be quite funny to be honest if the oft could only look and watch. do we honestly think that after what rotala have done in redditch over the past 5 years, they are just going to give in to a bunch of quangos. And yes actually stagecoach did nick a few of preston bus's routes before they sold it
[/quote]

I can see where you're coming from, the Darlington example that you're using was a completely different scenario without any Oft intervention. If Rotala made all reasonable attempts to sell the business and no buyers could be found, I'd expect the Oft would have to allow them to keep it, but may impose restrictions on the changes they are allowed to make particularly frequencies & fares. Or they may have to seek approval from the Oft for any future changes that wish to make to the business. I'm not sure on Preston bus as some of the two operators routes had already been absorbed, but Stagecoach would have only been able to keep complementary services
[/quote]

They kept the most profitable routes preston bus had... I'm just trying to think how the oft can simply force a sale through and how rotala could just ignore them totally though hopefully it wont come to that

[winston]

The thing is, it should be passed on a common sense note. Diamond clearly have plans for the area as they have said and i have heard that they want to take it back to how it was before there-before first made a dog's dinner of it. They have been to community meetings and engaged with the public more than first ever did in the town and yes there have been problems but what did people expect when timetables etc couldnt be changed and diamond have never been used to being the dominant operator in any area. The thing is, if they say no rotala can't acquire then will first really want it back? It was an admittedly small loss maker that Giles Fearnley clearly didnt want to focus on-they will get back a non-dda compliant fleet which is missing buses as rotala have sold some and the buses from redditch have replaced b7rles at worcester which have moved on. So it will require massive reorganisation for little financial return. NXWM were interested initially as apparently were stagecoach-though would first just close and diamond or someone else move in? NX have a massive WM monopoly-far more than diamond ever do or will have-and stagecoach are very active in the area as well. In Kidderminster, Whittles will keep diamond on their toes and the fact that in worcestershire there is stagecoach, johnsons and little to prohibit a new entrant should surely mean that the acquisition is passed? I guess we don't know-we can only wait and hope it is passed

Peter123,

I doesn't work like that, First Group have sold the business, therefore it is no longer their problem. If the Oft do decide to go against the Rotala deal, it will be Rotala that will have to divest the business (sell it on as per Stagecoach did with Prestonbus to Rotala). Additionally Rotala may not get the offers they ideally want as prospective purchasers will know that they have to sell the business within a set time frame.

Another options, may be the Oft impose undetakings where Rotala can keep the business, but have to agree not to reduce current frequencies / raises fares beyond a set level annually etc

Oh sorry Winston I got confused cos I was thinking north devon ie first didnt want it and had to shut it down but then they hadnt sold it like rotala sold redditch and kidderminster. There would of course be nothing to stop rotala selling it to someone like Scott Dunn or Yourbus that are not rotala but there are vague links to the organisation and then rotala buying yourbus when all the fuss had died down in a few years time. There must be loads of ways to get around it-yes rotala could sell it having first registered commerically the whole network operated by first so no one would really want to buy it. If say the oft said they had to sell and then rotala registered everything and then no one wanted to buy it, what would actually happen? I'm   sure first that it will go ahead and that if it doesnt, rotala wont go down without a fight

Its not going to work like that either, if Rotala are told to sell by the Oft, they will have to sell regardless within the time frame setout by the Oft, they certainly wont be able to register all the former First journey's to reduce the attractiveness to prospective buyers. If no buyers came forward I have no idea what would happen, but there will always be buyers if the price is right.

Where does all this Rotala fight come from? we haven't seen much evidence of 'fight' on the streets of the West Midlands of late

My point is that rotala could easily set it at a stupid price so it wouldnt sell and so they will have to keep it and in a deregulated environment they could quite easily register the entire network like stagecoach did when darlington was for sale. That way no one would buy it and the oft would have to back down-it would be quite funny to be honest if the oft could only look and watch. do we honestly think that after what rotala have done in redditch over the past 5 years, they are just going to give in to a bunch of quangos. And yes actually stagecoach did nick a few of preston bus's routes before they sold it

I can see where you're coming from, the Darlington example that you're using was a completely different scenario without any Oft intervention. If Rotala made all reasonable attempts to sell the business and no buyers could be found, I'd expect the Oft would have to allow them to keep it, but may impose restrictions on the changes they are allowed to make particularly frequencies & fares. Or they may have to seek approval from the Oft for any future changes that wish to make to the business. I'm not sure on Preston bus as some of the two operators routes had already been absorbed, but Stagecoach would have only been able to keep complementary services

They kept the most profitable routes preston bus had... I'm just trying to think how the oft can simply force a sale through and how rotala could just ignore them totally though hopefully it wont come to that

I'm pretty confident KR wont be a problem with the competition from Whittle's. It may be that Rotala get to keep the majority of the former First RH operation and may have to sell the former Red Diamond 57/58 routes to a new entrant, that said, as both Red Diamond & ex First Redditch operations have already been merged I'm not sure how the could/would split it?