Diamond Bus - Discussion

[Ash]

I'm not sure an increased frequency would help out on the 16 Diamond have been losing ground to NX for some time now & I think the reduced frequency is a result in the lower passenger numbers rather than the other way round. It's a shame really as I believe at one time BCC outnumbered TWM on the route. It does seem like over the years NXWM have regained lost ground like the 50 which Petes ran ever 8 mins, the 97 which Petes ran every 8 mins, the 9 which BCC ran every 10 mins just to name a few.
I have to admit NX are a lot harder to compete against than they used to be in part due to the Travelcard.

If you look at the service diamond do well on against NXWM it's mainly due to matching the frequency i.e the 4/40/42/43/301/401E so that every other bus is a diamond in most cases as a passenger I wouldn't buy a return ticket on the 50 if i know there every 15 minutes and NXWM are every couple of minutes whereas on the 4 diamond run every 6 minutes and so do NXWM. Also it's all about who get to the bus stops first if diamond match NXWM in frequency then they will pick up more passengers per bus or at least willing passengers who will be a return due to the high frequency. I don't think I got my point across well though as it's hard to explain.

[PM]

I'm not sure an increased frequency would help out on the 16 Diamond have been losing ground to NX for some time now & I think the reduced frequency is a result in the lower passenger numbers rather than the other way round. It's a shame really as I believe at one time BCC outnumbered TWM on the route. It does seem like over the years NXWM have regained lost ground like the 50 which Petes ran ever 8 mins, the 97 which Petes ran every 8 mins, the 9 which BCC ran every 10 mins just to name a few.
I have to admit NX are a lot harder to compete against than they used to be in part due to the Travelcard.

If you look at the service diamond do well on against NXWM it's mainly due to matching the frequency i.e the 4/40/42/43/301/401E so that every other bus is a diamond in most cases as a passenger I wouldn't buy a return ticket on the 50 if i know there every 15 minutes and NXWM are every couple of minutes whereas on the 4 diamond run every 6 minutes and so do NXWM. Also it's all about who get to the bus stops first if diamond match NXWM in frequency then they will pick up more passengers per bus or at least willing passengers who will be a return due to the high frequency. I don't think I got my point across well though as it's hard to explain.

I agree with you Ash and I do understand your point. It is about passenger perception-with more buses on the route passengers will think oh look theres a diamond bus and lots of them so contemplate a return whereas on the 50 why would anyone buy a return when diamond are not particularly frequent. I simply dont buy the argument that competing with national express is impossible-it is down to route choice, good vehicles and colour schemes and marketing and building up a customer base over several years and being prepared to take commercial risks.

[Steveminor]

If its down to frequencies explain the 37. Very frequent Rotal designed a good livery, the buses were well turned out & they started off with a VERY cheap single fare. Yet they still lost out badly to NX.

I do agree it isn't impossible to compete with NXWM, just harder than it used to be, especially on core corridors

[PM]

If its down to frequencies explain the 37. Very frequent Rotal designed a good livery, the buses were well turned out & they started off with a VERY cheap single fare. Yet they still lost out badly to NX.

I do agree it isn't impossible to compete with NXWM, just harder than it used to be, especially on core corridors

badly run and wrong route choice-a long route that has a high percentage of travelcard users on it and in the latter days it was run badly and the service was unreliable. You have to remember pete's had already pulled off this route once for a reason and was a complete dead duck compared to 17/97/16/50.

[bwsau cymru]

I have to say that I think Diamond removing the 50p fare if you have a twm ticket was silly and adds to there downfall on many services including 16, 17, 37,97 and 404. At the time they removed them I thought was silly and to me has proven a bad move. That could be why GRS seem more busier. Virtually all passengers in my mind have no loyalty to a bus operator I honestly believe they just want to jump on the first bus that arrive that is cheap! But again the 16 looks completely dead why on earth did the 97 go which had decent loading and the 16 remain. Daft to be honest and a really shame to see diamond still struggling.

[Steveminor]

There is a very good reason for getting rid of the 50p TWM supplement. Centro pay concessions at a percentage of an operators average fare. If you are getting a lot of 50p fares this lowers your average fare & so lowers your concessionary reimbursement, not by much but when you consider how many pensioners are carried, it does add up. Add to that people who pay 50p for a pass are less likely to wait for their ticket, which will increase the chances of a driver pocketing the money.
On the 37 front it was well managed at the beginning & reliable however my short workings @ AMPM would leave Solihull after a Diamond with more passengers.

[Ash]

Also the reason the 4/40/42/43/301 and 401E are quite successful is that there is a network of services around Walsall and West Bromwich covering most of the black country where as in Birmingham you buy a pass for the 16 their is no diamond service from Hamstead and you have the 50 or 56 from Birmingham not much selection where as for example you can get from Bloxwich to Merry Hill using 2 diamond buses or Weoley castle to West Bromwich changing at Halesowen or alot of other combinations with more selections.

[Sh4318]

Also the reason the 4/40/42/43/301 and 401E are quite successful is that there is a network of services around Walsall and West Bromwich covering most of the black country where as in Birmingham you buy a pass for the 16 their is no diamond service from Hamstead and you have the 50 or 56 from Birmingham not much selection where as for example you can get from Bloxwich to Merry Hill using 2 diamond buses or Weoley castle to West Bromwich changing at Halesowen or alot of other combinations with more selections.

Also because half of the routes mentioned (4/40/42/43) have the same frequencies as their NXWM counterparts, therefore it is a level playing field, whereas if you look at the 50, passengers are more likely to use the NXWM service, as it's 3 times more frequent than the Diamond service

[Ash]

Also the reason the 4/40/42/43/301 and 401E are quite successful is that there is a network of services around Walsall and West Bromwich covering most of the black country where as in Birmingham you buy a pass for the 16 their is no diamond service from Hamstead and you have the 50 or 56 from Birmingham not much selection where as for example you can get from Bloxwich to Merry Hill using 2 diamond buses or Weoley castle to West Bromwich changing at Halesowen or alot of other combinations with more selections.

Also because half of the routes mentioned (4/40/42/43) have the same frequencies as their NXWM counterparts, therefore it is a level playing field, whereas if you look at the 50, passengers are more likely to use the NXWM service, as it's 3 times more frequent than the Diamond service

Exactly Shaun,I just wished diamond would advertise there return tickets quite a few people wait for the NXWM bus and pay £2.90 for a return ticker because they think diamond just don't do return tickets.

[BU07 LGO]

the new livery just looks unappealing too compared to previous attempts and brandings. I think people are reluctant to take the leap of buying a pass for any length of time partly due to smaller operators withdrawing at short notice, leaving customers high and dry.

If I was in charge, I would concentrate on the more profitable routes, run at a good frequency with low fares and make a point of these such as eye catching adverts and branding.

I feel they are too big but not big enough compared to NXWM

[Ash]

the new livery just looks unappealing too compared to previous attempts and brandings. I think people are reluctant to take the leap of buying a pass for any length of time partly due to smaller operators withdrawing at short notice, leaving customers high and dry.

If I was in charge, I would concentrate on the more profitable routes, run at a good frequency with low fares and make a point of these such as eye catching adverts and branding.

I feel they are too big but not big enough compared to NXWM

The services diamond operate commercially have been around for many years so are not likely to be withdrawn so passengers should feel confident in buying longer term passes but agree higher frequencies and some catchy branding would be good. 

[winston]

the new livery just looks unappealing too compared to previous attempts and brandings. I think people are reluctant to take the leap of buying a pass for any length of time partly due to smaller operators withdrawing at short notice, leaving customers high and dry.

If I was in charge, I would concentrate on the more profitable routes, run at a good frequency with low fares and make a point of these such as eye catching adverts and branding.

I feel they are too big but not big enough compared to NXWM

The services diamond operate commercially have been around for many years so are not likely to be withdrawn so passengers should feel confident in buying longer term passes but agree higher frequencies and some catchy branding would be good.

Ash, but so were routes such as the 9, 17, 64, 74, 87, 97 120 etc they've all gone

[Ash]

the new livery just looks unappealing too compared to previous attempts and brandings. I think people are reluctant to take the leap of buying a pass for any length of time partly due to smaller operators withdrawing at short notice, leaving customers high and dry.

If I was in charge, I would concentrate on the more profitable routes, run at a good frequency with low fares and make a point of these such as eye catching adverts and branding.

I feel they are too big but not big enough compared to NXWM

The services diamond operate commercially have been around for many years so are not likely to be withdrawn so passengers should feel confident in buying longer term passes but agree higher frequencies and some catchy branding would be good.

Ash, but so were routes such as the 9, 17, 64, 74, 87, 97 120 etc they've all gone

Diamond generally do better in the black country and not on services that enter Birmingham also all these services didn't match NXWM frequency in most cases.

[Steveminor]

"all these services didn't match NXWM frequency in most cases."
They used to @ one point but buses were gradually withdrawn as passenger numbers fell until eventually the routes themselves were withdrawn.
Maybe Diamond have become a little complacent with their commercial routes & just expect their drivers will compete with NXWM. In my experience that is never the case. Unless you give the drivers some incentive to compete or have someone monitoring them more then drivers will just become lazy & follow each other around.
When Thann their inspector was in Birmingham pushing the drivers to compete they did a lot better, but as soon as he was gone you would all too often see then bunch up behind each other or following NXWM.
At Tile Cross I would often see Diamond wait in the terminus until about 2 mins after a NX 17 had left before leaving themselves & very seldom see Diamond leave in front.
Even the other week on the 4 Diamond left West Brom behind NX & just followed it (even stopping at stops behind it when there was no one to get on or off) until Caldmore. When we pulled into Walsall there was another NX 4 on the stand & guess what, the Diamond bus I had just got off followed it out empty.
How do you get passengers if you follow another bus.

[Ash]

Perhaps because they have to follow to a timetable?