Diamond Bus - Discussion

[winston]

On VOSA today.

PD1028090/129 - CENTRAL CONNECT LTD T/A Birmingham Motor Traction, BEACON HOUSE, LONG ACRE, ASTON, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5JJ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Birmingham, Moor Street and Tile Cross given service number 17 effective from 01-Apr-2013.

There's literally going to be hardly anything left at Long Acre (commercial services).

They may as well do away with the Blue Diamond brand & Long Acre as an operational depot, there's very little other than tendered routes left now. Diamond bus is a shadow of its former self, it's just consistent withdrawals of long standing commercial services across the board, and it's a little bit more than just consolidation. I think Rotala are finding it tough going in the West Midlands, particularly since NX have fought back with return fares, new fleet investment, and frequency increases etc, whilst Arriva have swiped a number of tendered routes formerly operated by Diamond and no doubt put down pressure on tender prices as a result. There are a few commercial route pockets where Diamond seems to do well i.e. the 4/4H/4M, 41/42, 56 & 301 etc, they desperately need to invest in some new vehicles & make sure the correct coloured/branded vehicles are operating in the correct areas.

I also think Rotala may have a shock in Kidderminster, I think Whittles may turn up the pressure & increase competition. I'm not so sure the combined First/Diamond Redditch business will get the monopoly Rotala are expecting, the soon to be vacated Church Road depot is screaming for someone else to set up in the town

[Ash]

Do you mean the 40/42/43 Winston not the 41 as that is a NXWM service. But agree investment in vehicles is definitely needed. The buses on the 4/4H/4M are worse than the buses they had in Petes Travel days as they were X631/2/4/6-9/41AKW now it seeing mostly darts that are around 15 Years old such a shame and when the warm weather comes these old darts will struggle with the heat and the long runs on the 4H and 4M which both have significant hill climbs. Would have been fantastic if they still had 801-820 for their West Bromwich services of which they were first purchased for.

[Discodave]

On VOSA today.

PD1028090/129 - CENTRAL CONNECT LTD T/A Birmingham Motor Traction, BEACON HOUSE, LONG ACRE, ASTON, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5JJ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Birmingham, Moor Street and Tile Cross given service number 17 effective from 01-Apr-2013.

There's literally going to be hardly anything left at Long Acre (commercial services).

They may as well do away with the Blue Diamond brand & Long Acre as an operational depot, there's very little other than tendered routes left now. Diamond bus is a shadow of its former self, it's just consistent withdrawals of long standing commercial services across the board, and it's a little bit more than just consolidation. I think Rotala are finding it tough going in the West Midlands, particularly since NX have fought back with return fares, new fleet investment, and frequency increases etc, whilst Arriva have swiped a number of tendered routes formerly operated by Diamond and no doubt put down pressure on tender prices as a result. There are a few commercial route pockets where Diamond seems to do well i.e. the 4/4H/4M, 41/42, 56 & 301 etc, they desperately need to invest in some new vehicles & make sure the correct coloured/branded vehicles are operating in the correct areas.

I also think Rotala may have a shock in Kidderminster, I think Whittles may turn up the pressure & increase competition. I'm not so sure the combined First/Diamond Redditch business will get the monopoly Rotala are expecting, the soon to be vacated Church Road depot is screaming for someone else to set up in the town

You are probberly right winston Whittles may turn up the wick and with Redditch yes a gaping gap has been left open possible bigger operator may move in.  It just depends if they think its worth it being First have sold up there.

[Ash]

Do people think diamond will increase their ticket prices now there Redditch operations may increase in size if it all goes through. At the moment it's £1.80 for a day ticket how can anyone compete with this for example Whittles as it seems so cheap and would need very high patronage surely to make any sort of reasonable profit in return.

[Discodave]

Do you mean the 40/42/43 Winston not the 41 as that is a NXWM service. But agree investment in vehicles is definitely needed. The buses on the 4/4H/4M are worse than the buses they had in Petes Travel days as they were X631/2/4/6-9/41AKW now it seeing mostly darts that are around 15 Years old such a shame and when the warm weather comes these old darts will struggle with the heat and the long runs on the 4H and 4M which both have significant hill climbs. Would have been fantastic if they still had 801-820 for their West Bromwich services of which they were first purchased for.

It gets confusing with all these reviews its so easy to make a mistake nice one centro at least when you said number 1 in the old system it was the Acocks green service now it could be a wolverhampton route, walsall/cannock route help!!!

[winston]

Do you mean the 40/42/43 Winston not the 41 as that is a NXWM service. But agree investment in vehicles is definitely needed. The buses on the 4/4H/4M are worse than the buses they had in Petes Travel days as they were X631/2/4/6-9/41AKW now it seeing mostly darts that are around 15 Years old such a shame and when the warm weather comes these old darts will struggle with the heat and the long runs on the 4H and 4M which both have significant hill climbs. Would have been fantastic if they still had 801-820 for their West Bromwich services of which they were first purchased for.

Yes, still haven't go my head around the new route numbers, the new numbers for the 401/402

[winston]

Do you mean the 40/42/43 Winston not the 41 as that is a NXWM service. But agree investment in vehicles is definitely needed. The buses on the 4/4H/4M are worse than the buses they had in Petes Travel days as they were X631/2/4/6-9/41AKW now it seeing mostly darts that are around 15 Years old such a shame and when the warm weather comes these old darts will struggle with the heat and the long runs on the 4H and 4M which both have significant hill climbs. Would have been fantastic if they still had 801-820 for their West Bromwich services of which they were first purchased for.

Yes Wessex swiped 9 of them (812-820) when the Royale spec B7RLE's were delivered in 2009, little after a year in service with Black Diamond

Things were looking up when the 23 x MAN/MCV were taking delivery of (even though the internal layout was a little cramped), I still think there was more to them leaving than them being un-reliable, as you'd think Rotala would have replaced them with another type, but instead there were replaced by cascaded Darts due to Centro tender losses & commercial route withdrawals

[Ash]

Do you mean the 40/42/43 Winston not the 41 as that is a NXWM service. But agree investment in vehicles is definitely needed. The buses on the 4/4H/4M are worse than the buses they had in Petes Travel days as they were X631/2/4/6-9/41AKW now it seeing mostly darts that are around 15 Years old such a shame and when the warm weather comes these old darts will struggle with the heat and the long runs on the 4H and 4M which both have significant hill climbs. Would have been fantastic if they still had 801-820 for their West Bromwich services of which they were first purchased for.

Yes Wessex swiped 9 of them (812-820) when the Royale spec B7RLE's were delivered in 2009, little after a year in service with Black Diamond

Things were looking up when the 23 x MAN/MCV were taking delivery of (even though the internal layout was a little cramped), I still think there was more to them leaving than them being un-reliable, as you'd think Rotala would have replaced them with another type, but instead there were replaced by cascaded Darts due to Centro tender losses & commercial route withdrawals

I just can't see any of the black diamond services getting any new buses anytime in the near future investment is so badly needed and it wouldn't take that many new buses to make a significant improvement. Service 4/4H/4M one of diamond's key services 7 days a wek daytime and evening services now has the oldest buses allocated to it red and white darts even the cadets are rare on it now your lucky to get 2/3 daily on it. Although the mcv's were not that great I thought the purple colour and the black country connection branding was excellent especially the interior branding was something different in the west midlands shame it has gone.

[winston]

Do people think diamond will increase their ticket prices now there Redditch operations may increase in size if it all goes through. At the moment it's £1.80 for a day ticket how can anyone compete with this for example Whittles as it seems so cheap and would need very high patronage surely to make any sort of reasonable profit in return.

I think its without doubt that fares will go up once the competition has gone (i.e. First), the frequency's, number of buses operating the 57/58 will be cut and a number of First employees will need to find alternative employment where positions overlap/are duplicated with the current Diamond business. £1:80 for a day ticket is not a realistic price that can cover all their costs unless it attracts a significant increase in passenger numbers.....

[winston]

On VOSA today.

PD1028090/129 - CENTRAL CONNECT LTD T/A Birmingham Motor Traction, BEACON HOUSE, LONG ACRE, ASTON, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5JJ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Birmingham, Moor Street and Tile Cross given service number 17 effective from 01-Apr-2013.

There's literally going to be hardly anything left at Long Acre (commercial services).

They may as well do away with the Blue Diamond brand & Long Acre as an operational depot, there's very little other than tendered routes left now. Diamond bus is a shadow of its former self, it's just consistent withdrawals of long standing commercial services across the board, and it's a little bit more than just consolidation. I think Rotala are finding it tough going in the West Midlands, particularly since NX have fought back with return fares, new fleet investment, and frequency increases etc, whilst Arriva have swiped a number of tendered routes formerly operated by Diamond and no doubt put down pressure on tender prices as a result. There are a few commercial route pockets where Diamond seems to do well i.e. the 4/4H/4M, 41/42, 56 & 301 etc, they desperately need to invest in some new vehicles & make sure the correct coloured/branded vehicles are operating in the correct areas.

I also think Rotala may have a shock in Kidderminster, I think Whittles may turn up the pressure & increase competition. I'm not so sure the combined First/Diamond Redditch business will get the monopoly Rotala are expecting, the soon to be vacated Church Road depot is screaming for someone else to set up in the town

You are probberly right winston Whittles may turn up the wick and with Redditch yes a gaping gap has been left open possible bigger operator may move in.  It just depends if they think its worth it being First have sold up there.

Whittles seem to have developed quite a decent following in Kidderminster, I can't seen Rotala/Diamond doing anything to turn that around, I think Whittles may take the opportunity to turn up the heat. If it was NX, Arriva or Stagecoach that had bought Kidderminster I think Whittles may think twice, but as Rotala haven't got the financial muscle I reckon Whittles may grab the opportunity, after all Whittles parent company the EYMS group isn't actually that much smaller than Rotala group.

As for Redditch, once Church Rd is vacated you have a purpose built bus depot available for lease in a prime town centre location, its just asking for someone else to setup in the town. It could be a relatively low cost exercise to set up a new operation / competing network in the town, the fact the depot can be leased would mean the financial risks are reduced.

[Cedric]

Unless eyms buy or  lease , or get secondhand  buses  do not think they  have enough spare vehicles to send  down to whittles
. and as  For the   First routes in Kidderminster whittles already run  on the 3  Kidderminster  Stourport 
and on the Kidderminster -Bewdley route  First  is the 2  whittles is the 2A/2C,   these are more  direct than firsts

[Ash]

Does anybody know if any more diamond buses have been withdrawn recently or does anybody know of any specific buses that will be transferred over to red diamond either from Long Acre or Tividale for the start of the takeover.

[bwsau cymru]

just seen a Wessex dart being towed on the Sutton road (Walsall) plus one of the 52 darts and one of the old nec ones....anyone know whats happening?

[Tony]

just seen a Wessex dart being towed on the Sutton road (Walsall) plus one of the 52 darts and one of the old nec ones....anyone know whats happening?

They will be going off to new owners.

I have the January changes but the way I receive them takes some sorting to see what has actually moved, they will be on the website in the next couple of days

[Ash]

The 52 reg dart is not one of the ones from Yourbus is it? Are diamond getting any more second enviro 200's bone shakers. I must admit I was so disappointed with diamond's all blue enviro 200 when I had a ride on it no where near as nice as the NXWM ones. Mind you any bus with urban 90 seats are not designed for comfort.