First Bus - Leicester

[Tony]

Here is another thought about buses in use on motorways.

In a modern truck the drivers cab has a level of crash protection to offer a chance of survival in a front end crash, with motorway speeds in mind. What about the front end protection of the driver in a First Electroliner on the M6?

They meet all legal requirements.

[Tony]

If it's 43 they should be banned from motorways

If you are driving at 70mph on a motorway and cannot avoid a vehicle travelling 27mph slower I presume that means if you are driving at 30mph in a town you struggle to avoid parked cars!

[Sandy Lane]

They meet all legal requirements.

Tony, I am sure they do meet legal but what about a head on crash into the back of a stationary HGV or concrete wall at full whack? The cab is bound to deform big style on a motorway. Is there a defined survivability zone in the Electroliner?

[Tony]

Tony, I am sure they do meet legal but what about a head on crash into the back of a stationary HGV or concrete wall at full whack? The cab is bound to deform big style on a motorway. Is there a defined survivability zone in the Electroliner?

As would any vehicle. All vehicles have to meet the same regulations

[Sandy Lane]

As would any vehicle. All vehicles have to meet the same regulations

I wouldn't wish anyone a head on collision at high speed in any vehicle but I reckon HGV cabs are much stronger than a bus cab area in a full on frontal collision? This horrible type of incident does occasionally happen on motorways.

I would guess the HGV probably offers much better protection for a driver in an incident. HGV cab impact testing including manikin survivability is a legal standard but excludes buses I believe, so is there a similar bus standard?

Do First Bus Electroliners have seat belt protection for the driver when on motorway work? At least a seatbelt would help restrain the driver.

[Tony]

I wouldn't wish anyone a head on collision at high speed in any vehicle but I reckon HGV cabs are much stronger than a bus cab area in a full on frontal collision? This horrible type of incident does occasionally happen on motorways.

I would guess the HGV probably offers much better protection for a driver in an incident. HGV cab impact testing including manikin survivability is a legal standard but excludes buses I believe, so is there a similar bus standard?

Do First Bus Electroliners have seat belt protection for the driver when on motorway work? At least a seatbelt would help restrain the driver.

Yes, all First Group vehicles have seatbelts, why would HGVs be built to higher front strength? Head on collisions on a motorways are extremely rare, probably less that 0.01% of motorway collisions

[Mayfield]

If you are driving at 70mph on a motorway and cannot avoid a vehicle travelling 27mph slower I presume that means if you are driving at 30mph in a town you struggle to avoid parked cars!

What a stupid comment, I never mentioned not be able to avoid a vehicle travelling slower and no I don't struggle to avoid parked cars, it was an opinion about slow vehicles on motorways.
I believe having an opinion is still allowed in this country at present useless of course it differs from yours.

[Tony]

What a stupid comment, I never mentioned not be able to avoid a vehicle travelling slower and no I don't struggle to avoid parked cars, it was an opinion about slow vehicles on motorways.
I believe having an opinion is still allowed in this country at present useless of course it differs from yours.

But you seem to think my opinion is not allowed!

[Sandy Lane]

Yes, all First Group vehicles have seatbelts, why would HGVs be built to higher front strength? Head on collisions on a motorways are extremely rare, probably less that 0.01% of motorway collisions

HGV cabs seem to have their own standard. Be interested to know the bus equivalent

Regulation No 29 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) — Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to the protection of the occupants of the cab of a commercial vehicle [2019/1850]

[RobertJ21a]

What a stupid comment, I never mentioned not be able to avoid a vehicle travelling slower and no I don't struggle to avoid parked cars, it was an opinion about slow vehicles on motorways.
I believe having an opinion is still allowed in this country at present useless of course it differs from yours.

Your own comment was that a bus at 43mph should be banned from the motorway. From the various comments etc I wonder if you now still consider that to be sensible?

[Mayfield]

Your own comment was that a bus at 43mph should be banned from the motorway. From the various comments etc I wonder if you now still consider that to be sensible?

As previously stated it is an option 

[Magikrabby]

The Oxford Streetdeck Electroliners seem to top out at 50mph, would imagine this is the standard

[Mayfield]

Has the East Midlands airport parking contract started yet

[Fin W]

Has the East Midlands airport parking contract started yet

The evoras aren't at Abbey Lane so presumably so

[Wumpty]

If you are driving at 70mph on a motorway and cannot avoid a vehicle travelling 27mph slower I presume that means if you are driving at 30mph in a town you struggle to avoid parked cars!

What a stupid comment, I never mentioned not be able to avoid a vehicle travelling slower and no I don't struggle to avoid parked cars, it was an opinion about slow vehicles on motorways.
I believe having an opinion is still allowed in this country at present useless of course it differs from yours.

It's far from a stupid comment @Mayfield - everyone is entitled to an opinion, as is someone's right to debate the basis of an opinion.

For clarity; I drive circa 20,000 private miles (family/work commute/shopping etc). I also cover an additional circa 35,000 miles on all manner of roads, and have worked in, and with, the bus industry for over 30 years.

I, as I'm sure we all do, encounter some VERY questionable driving from all classes of vehicle, though in the case of buses, rather than coaches, I know from experience that a bus will be considerably slower on, though legally entitled to use, a motorway, and as such will adjust my driving style and anticipate the buses potential movements accordingly. Human error accounts for over 90% of motorway collisions, usually by drivers that cannot read or anticipate the movements of ANY vehicle, and given the advanced levels of training undertaken by bus drivers, accidents are more likely to be caused by non-PCV drivers than than anyone else.

If one is unable to read the road and use hazard perception to avoid someone travelling slower than you, or someone that drives to poorer standards, perhaps one should re-evaluate their ability to drive - @Tony makes a good point with the 27/30mph and parked cars, as this again relates to poor driving standards/hazard perception and the ability to read the road and surroundings.

As an aside, when I first worked on the buses, we had a driver called George Taylor (sing-along-George to the Walsall drivers!), ex Walsall Corporation (who @Tony may remember), who'd been driving for over 30 years who always drove his buses, Nationals/Leopards/minibuses, at no more than 20mph. When I asked (as a wet behind the ears teenager) why he was driving like a vicar, he said they'd been trained and regularly assessed on their driving an said that "20 was plenty" to be able to stop safely in a emergency and minimise injury to passengers. That's always stuck with me, and if more drivers drove and had the attitude and aptitude for driving that George had, the roads would be a hugely safer place.

Mind how you go!